How to customize mag hosts?

[sb_pete]

Ok, so I'm looking into setting up a group buy for some custom HAIII mag hosts along the lines of what MirageMan did a couple times last year. I have found an anodiser that seems to really know what they're doing so the stripping, polishing and HAIII anodising should be pretty easy and affordable as long as I do 30+ hosts.

That being said, I know next to nothing about machining. It doesn't seem that anyone around here is really doing custom mag body stuff to order. FM and Mac and such seem to be doing just their own limited run things.
There are a ton of machinists in town though and I have been to a few and found one shop that seems to have all the right tools (the first guy said it would be really hard to do finning and fluting b/c he didn't have a four axis mill, the main guy at this shop --Phoenix hi tech machining in Goleta, CA-- started describing to me how he could do it with a combination mill/lathe machine he had. I asked him about a four axis mill and he just laughed and said "yeah, i've got one of those too" as if it were a screwdriver or something.) ANyways, I'm thinking of trying to do more or less the same stuff MM did:
1. straight finning and/or fluting of head (no spiral stuff)
2. horizontal and/or vertical finning of body knurling
3. cut down and re-thread mag bodies
4. tri and/or quad boring

Also, I'd like to add:
5. spiral/diamond finning of body knurling
6. tail-cap hole option for those with FM battery holders that can be charged while in host.
7. some kind of light crenelation effect to the stock mag bezels

I discussed it a little with the guy and he said he certainly would be capable of all that stuff, but needed more details. So I guess what i'm asking is:
1. What kind of machinery is needed for this work at a minimum? what about Ideally?
2. What kinds of questions should I be asking?
3. The tri and quad boring seems to be the most difficult part. How is this usually done?

That should be a start I think. Hopefully some of you out there can help me get a better idea of what's required to do something like this and whether or not I can actually do it.

Thanks in advance,
-Pete

 

[will]

Some of the work can be done on a lathe, this would be fins, grooves that sort of cut.

Any horizontal cuts, diamond cuts are done on a CNC milling machine.

Tri, quad boring would also be done on a milling machine, typically with a boring bar.

keep in mind - after anodizing - the tail cap and end of the body have to be re-cut to clean up the electical path.

I think you are going to run into cost issues with all the variables you have mentioned. Most machine shops want to do 30 of the same thing, A lot of their time is spent on setting up for the different machine operations.

 

[sb_pete]

Some of the work can be done on a lathe, this would be fins, grooves that sort of cut.
Any horizontal cuts, diamond cuts are done on a CNC milling machine.

Yeah, this part seems simple enough. Main thing is I don't know how deep one is supposed to be cutting? I figure its a pretty simple lathe job to fin the bodies, and a bit less simple to fin and/or groove the heads. I am guessing a lathe could also be used to crenelate the bezel (really shallow cuts with a fat bit?)? Also what is typically used to hold the mag bodies or heads in place during cutting? One guy at another shop was talking about having to custom make a piece for this. Seemed to me that there should be another way. Yes?

Cost will certainly be an issue on the CNC stuff, main thing is to find out how much of one and see what demand will be then though, you know

Tri, quad boring would also be done on a milling machine, typically with a boring bar.

Again, I know very little about this stuff. I did a quick look up of boring bars and it seems there are quite a few types. Which do you need for this? What depth and radius of cut do you normally use for these borings?
Also, the guys I spoke with all were concerned about the depth of the cut (which I guestimated at about 8" for the 3D mags) driving the bit off center. Is this normally a prob with that depth? What does one usually do about it in this application?

keep in mind - after anodizing - the tail cap and end of the body have to be re-cut to clean up the electical path.

Yeah, forgot to mention that part. Should be a fairly simple lathe job for both, right? As a side note, since it is thicker than the type II anodising how is it that the HAIII doesn't become an issue with the threads?

I think you are going to run into cost issues with all the variables you have mentioned. Most machine shops want to do 30 of the same thing, A lot of their time is spent on setting up for the different machine operations.

Yeah, I think that you're right, it could certainly be an issue. But I need to find out what each will cost in various run sizes before I'll know how to go forward. Maybe I can't end up offering all of those, maybe a few of them just end up expensive. Won't know till I ask though, right?

In any case, thanks for your help!
-Pete

 

[will]

Ideally you want the body of the light to be able to fit inside the lathe chuck. None of the dimensions for grooves are critical so a 3 jaw chuck would do fine. The work I have done on the heads have been done using the inside jaws. I would not groove more than half the thickness of the body tube, It is really just a look that you are after.

Most machine shops that have milling machines will most likely have boring bars, The longer the cut, the heavier the bar will have to be. Also - if you are boring out the inside, don't do any cuts on the outside of the body - you might run the cuts into each other. This all depends on how much material is taken off the inside and how deep the grooves are.

There is enough slop in the threads ( loose fit ) so removing the anodize, then re-anodizing should be ok.

I think the shop rate is someting like $60 - $80 per hour. You may end up with costs that are just too high. Most of the members here (that do the work ) have their own lathes and and are not making $ 60 - $80 per hour.

 

[LuxLuthor]

Will does excellent work. It wouldn't hurt to ask FiveMega, MirageMan, and Mac to look at this thread also. Just because they do their runs of what they think they can sell, doesn't mean they wouldn't do a run of this many if they knew they were sold.

 

[sb_pete]

Thanks alot Will. That gives me alot of what I need to know in order to better explain what I'm trying to do to the machinists and figure out how much it will cost.

Thanks Lux, I put out an earlier thread a few weeks back and know that Mirageman isn't interested in doing another run. Mac is on the east coast, so I just can't imagine how it would really work, we'd have to ship things back and forth multiple times and it would just get messy. FM is not too far from here though so that might actually work. To be honest I hadn't even thought of that as an option. I kind of thought I would have to put them together here if it was going to happen. Now that you mention it though, it might be feasible. I'll have to drop him a line and see if he would have any interest in doing something like that. I'm pretty slammed with work and school for the next few days though. I think I'll look into what it would cost with the local guys come thursday when I get some time and go from there. Maybe FM would be interested if I found the buyers and split the parts all up into a bunch of boxes with which parts would need which work:thinking:. Like I said, this is all a bit preliminary and I'm still just feeling out how to go about it so all options are definately on the table and I'm very open to ANY suggestions. I'm definately not trying to step on any toes or take away from the business of the established guys. It's just that I had asked last month about how to get something like MM's mag hosts built, and it seemed the only way to do it was to set up something along the lines of what he did using local shops. Maybe there is another way though. Anyways, like you say, it never hurts to ask and it would certainly be easier if somebody like FM who already knows exactly what he's doing would be interested. Can't believe I didn't think of that myself.

In any case, I'll see what I can see at the end of the week. Probably still at least a couple weeks away from seeing what it would all cost and putting out a feeler to see if there would be enough demand. Hopefully I can find a way to make it cost about the same as MM's second run. If that is the case, then I'll get rolling and have a couple samples made, put out a feeler, and then start up a group buy.

Thanks for your help guys, I really appreciate it! I'll report back when I get some more info.

-Pete

 

[will]

Mirage Man is located in Florida. I think that you are going to get locked into using the mail to send stuff back and forth. Actually - I would use UPS, they have better tracking. I always get a little nervous sending out a lot of lights in a single package.

Part of the issue with getting work done in the various shops are the minimums needed to get a decent price. I have a mini-lathe and I work on small items for the most part. I can get most of the work done in my 'spare' time.

The other item to consider, some of the members will want to send their own lights to have work done. This adds another layer of tracking, shipping and responsibility.