I need better field lights.

[DieselTech]

Hey all. I'm working on a project for my truck, and need some help from people who know a lot more than I do. I'm a far cry from an electrical engineer.

I need a good set of axillary lights on my F-350. These wont ever be used on the road, just in my field when I'm out with the cows.

I'm working on a set of 'aircraft landing lights' to mount on my brush guard. I'm figuring on four lights, two focused on long distance throw and two for a nice flood to fill the gap between the beams of the long throw lights.

I've seen several different model numbers of various GE landing lights. Does anyone have any experience with these, to recommend which numbers have more throw, spill, or lifespan? I plan on running them on at least 10 gauge wire through one relay for each set of 2 lights, on two separate switches.

Ideas? Opinions?

 

[lctorana]

Go to an agricutural supplier, one who is experienced with tractor lighting for nighttime work. Tractors have a mix of floods and spots, typically in the PAR36 form factor.

 

[Ken_McE]

HID might work nicely in your situation. Don't forget to post some ill-MOOO-mination shots.

 

[DieselTech]

I've looked at the tractor lighting, but most of the time the employees dont know much about wattage, throw, etc. The lights I have used on the tractor dont really have the throw that I'm looking for.

HID sounds like it would be great, but it also sounds like it will be prohibitively expensive. My current idea is four Sylvania 4537 bulbs. According to what I can find online, they're 100 watt, 13 volt, PAR46 lights.

What's the difference in PAR46 and PAR36?

*EDIT* I just found some 4522 bulbs that claim the same 13 volts, but are 250 watts. I know generally the more wattage the better, but would that be true in this case?

 

[TorchBoy]

*EDIT* I just found some 4522 bulbs that claim the same 13 volts, but are 250 watts. I know generally the more wattage the better, but would that be true in this case?

Now you're talking! Those should be nicely bright.

 

[SemiMan]

I am pretty certain the F350 has a heavy duty alternator, but you may want to check out what the output is at idle/low RPM. 4 - 250Watt bulbs may be quite a load.

Semiman

 

[DieselTech]

I am pretty certain the F350 has a heavy duty alternator, but you may want to check out what the output is at idle/low RPM. 4 - 250Watt bulbs may be quite a load.

Semiman

I'm sure they'll draw quite a bit, but I cant find anywhere that shows exactly how much. The truck is a diesel, with two batteries. I also have a high idle program for it that means I can set it up to idle at about 1250 RPMs as opposed to the 600-700 it would stock. I'm not really worried about it, but I would like to know more about how much these things draw, and the difference between the PAR numbers.

 

[scott.cr]

AFAIK, the F-350 alternator is rated at 140 amps max output. That's just under 2 kW. After you subtract losses due to resistance in the wire harnesses, plus what the on-board electronics use, you might be left with 500 watts to spare (at max output).

Since you're looking for hotrod lights you may consider taking a few extra steps to prep your right. Like buying/borrowing an automotive ammeter. You can use it to see how much extra lighting your charging system can support at the engine speeds they'll be run at.

I did this before with an Autometer ammeter. I didn't want to permanently install it, so I wired it with thick cable and securely taped it to the outside of my windshield so I could drive and watch it for a week. Installed the lights, and monitored the ammeter for another week. After I was convinced all was well, the ammeter went bye-bye. (Wouldn't have minded keeping it, but my dash already had a gaggle of gauges. It was a lowered Civic with two small lights in the front bumper, but they had 250W lamps in them.)

 

[TorchBoy]

AFAIK, the F-350 alternator is rated at 140 amps max output. That's just under 2 kW. After you subtract losses due to resistance in the wire harnesses, plus what the on-board electronics use, you might be left with 500 watts to spare (at max output).

Wow. Resistance and on-board electronics use 1.5kW? That's about 50% more than my alternator produces in total! Just how much on-board electronics does a F-350 have?

 

[Diesel_Bomber]

The alternator would be my concern as well. The absolute maximum output of an alternator shouldn't be confused with the continuous maximum output of the same alternator. Most automotive alternators simply don't have enough cooling ability to provide absolute maximum output continuously.

The stock F350 alternator will undoubtedly work with 1kw worth of lights, but for how long?

:buddies:

 

[scott.cr]

Wow. Resistance and on-board electronics use 1.5kW? That's about 50% more than my alternator produces in total! Just how much on-board electronics does a F-350 have?

Actually, diesel_bomber brings up a good point, the alternator will never really be running at max output for very long. And if it did, it would overheat. Most automotive alternators are rated at 50% duty cycle; trucks probably more.

Anyway, the on-board electrical requirements of a motor vehicle can be very steep: Fuel injectors (up to 1 amp each!), a/c, window defogger, ABS, fuel injection computer, and so on. Window defoggers can draw huge current! My old VW GTI popped the fuse on my ammeter (10 amps) when I was troubleshooting it, and that's a compact car.

BTW, the alternators in current Honda cars are rated at 140 amps... probably due to all the electronic gadgetry modern cars lug around.

Anyway, back to the task at hand. There's a company called Power Master that makes ultra high-output alternators for American domestic vehicles, they go up to 300 amps and have huge heatsinks on the diode/regulator package. They're not cheap, but they're DIY-rebuildable.

 

[KevinL]

I need a good set of axillary lights on my F-350. These wont ever be used on the road, just in my field when I'm out with the cows.

Ideas? Opinions?

Very important - what I'm going to suggest is not legal for on-road use. You know that already, just repeating it..

You could pick up a set of reflectors in housings for a given bulb of your choice (say H3), and some of those HID kits on ebay. I don't know how rugged they are, I build them into handheld spotlights which have comparatively low power-on hours, but they are quite cheap for the power they offer. I've seen a pair of H3 bulbs and ballast at <$100 shipped. Reflectors/housings should be cheap. Just ask for one to fit standard H3, H4, or whatever automotive bulb is popular. The HID bulbs have been engineered to work in ordinary incandescent housings. This is largely because they are designed as 'retrofit' kits.

It is important to match the reflector to the bulb type. Usually your HID seller will ask you what reflector you are mating it to.

You just plug everything together and plug the ballast into a 12V supply - good to go. Bulb -> Ballast -> power and switch (switch tends to be important if you want to turn it off!).

35W HID's are roughly 3K lumens per bulb for a low CCT like 4200K, 5000K or 6000K (closest to daylight). 4200 is warmer, 6000 is slightly blue-ish. That's a LOT OF LUMENS... should be more than adequate!

I've bought one of these kits before, and parted it out since I only needed one bulb. I had a spotlight using a H3 automotive bulb.. got rid of that H3, popped in the HID, changed out the battery pack and it was party time

 

[TorchBoy]

BTW, the alternators in current Honda cars are rated at 140 amps

Now, is that peak or continuous?

You could pick up a set of reflectors in housings for a given bulb of your choice (say H3), and some of those HID kits on ebay.

Or at DX. I've wanted to do that for years, but keep finding better things to do with my money. The cost is certainly coming down though.

 

[Diesel_Bomber]

Now, is that peak or continuous?

Peak.

At least I hope so, considering how much I spent on two 135 amp continuous duty alternators not too long ago.

:buddies:

 

[KevinL]

Now, is that peak or continuous?


Or at DX. I've wanted to do that for years, but keep finding better things to do with my money. The cost is certainly coming down though.

AHA, perfect!! No need to take my chances on ebay.....

 

[TorchBoy]

AHA, perfect!! No need to take my chances on ebay.....

My thoughts exactly! :twothumbs

Scott, what's the continuous rating on the Honda alternators?

 

[scott.cr]

Scott, what's the continuous rating on the Honda alternators?

Beats me. Until this post I never really thought about alternator duty cycle. I looked thru my Honda Service Express materials and it doesn't say what the duty cycle is. There's probably a rule of thumb--anyone have a Bosch blue book handy? (Mine's at home & I'm at work.)

 

[DieselTech]

Wow, lots of new reading here. Good stuff.

The HID kits look pretty cool, but at 100 or so bucks for two lights, it's already cost more than four 250 watt bulbs with housings, relays, and switches.

I plan on checking tomorrow to get the exact output of the factory alternator. In a worst- case scenario, I can swap the factory one out for an 'Ambulance Package' alternator that I believe are 215 (possibly more) amps, or just add a second alternator; though that's a bit more involved, it too can be done with all factory parts.

Thus far, it looks like the project is a go. I'm looking at the GE 4522 bulbs, rated at 250 watts for 25 hours on 13 volts. I plan on running two lights per circuit, one set off of each battery, routed through a relay and a switch on the dash. I'll have to break out my old electrical book and get the formulas for figuring the appropriate size of wire and capacity of the relay. With the limited- duty use (lights on for a short period of time every so often), I think the factory system will handle it. If not, then I'll install the ambulance alternator and heavier duty cables- or depending on how it does with just two lights, I may swap two for a less bright, lower draw pair.

 

[TorchBoy]

I'm looking at the GE 4522 bulbs, rated at 250 watts for 25 hours on 13 volts. I plan on running two lights per circuit, one set off of each battery, routed through a relay and a switch on the dash. I'll have to break out my old electrical book and get the formulas for figuring the appropriate size of wire and capacity of the relay.

Ha ha. Big.

The bigger the wire the better. For that sort of power handling you want as little resistance (and thus voltage drop) in it as possible.

For the relay, P = IV, or P/V = I. Plug in a couple of values and we have 250/13 = 19.2A so a single 60A relay should do two of those lights, although startup current could be quite horrendous.

What price do you have on those bulbs? A quick check online shows they're $25-$32 each. Considering the alternator load as well, the HID starts to sound attractive.

 

[KevinL]

Yup.. not pushing HID 'just cause I like it', but I was thinking it might save you the wiring, an additional 2 lights with the complexity they bring, and a more expensive alternator.. your total cost of ownership starts to go down