iCharger questions/help please

[opiy]

I plan to buy the icharger 106B soon and was curious about a few things.

I have 18650 and R123R batteries that I will be charging so I am curious what wire setup you use to charge with? I would like to be able to charge two batteries at once if possible but likely one at a time will be OK.

Do I need a power supply for the charger like in this combo? http://www.progressiverc.com/the-starter-220w-combo.html

Are there any others wires or connectors I need?

My batteries are a mixture of xxFire and two Redilast but will likely phase out the xxfires and go all Redilasts and AWs.

Trying to think of anything else to consider but nothing else comes to mind.

Thanks!
Larry

 

[VegasF6]

You will need a power supply of some sort thats for sure. If you prefer you can use an old computer supply for much of your needs but you wouldn't be able to charge anything over 12 volts.
I have a variety of ways to connect my cells but essentially they consist of banana plugs at one end and magnets at the other. I have soldered directly to the magnets and I have also used alligator clips and even cup magnets with nut and bolt.
When charging several lithium cells I choose the parallel method. I have two round metal rails that I salvaged from the inside of a dvd rom drive mechanism and these become my power buss. I attach my power leads to them via aligator clips and I line up my cells next to each other with super magnets at each end (little 6mm rare earth ones from online)
Then I just attach the buss bars to them.

 

[write2dgray]

VegasF6 hit the nail on the thread there, you'll need a source of DC power like the power supply in the combo linked or a lead acid battery type source.

Magnets work well, but you have to be careful in soldering to them. Too much heat and they lose their magic.

I've looked at a few design ideas, but never "commercialized" anything and do not offer any available options at present.

Here is a quick photo of my own jig for this, which I'm personally pretty fond of :). Uses a small clamp and some copper electrical fittings and can take some pretty high current for discharge testing of larger LiFe cells as well. If I did it again I’d probably eliminate the wood blocks and copper widgets, substituting large button head screws. The one I built was for high current discharge testing.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k48/write2dgray/DSC00039.jpg

Please resize and repost. - Thanks Norm[/COLOR]

Your images are oversize, when you post an image please remember Rule #3

Rule #3 If you post an image in your post, please downsize the image to no larger than 800 x 800 pixels.

Please resize and repost. - Thanks Norm

Happy charging!

- David (Owner, ProgressiveRC)

 

[hellokitty[hk]]

If you have flat tops, a charger setup like that won't work too well, as it looks like the connection is just a flat plate. Also, note that at the back of many liIon batteries is a bit of shrink wrap, and that'll interfere with a flat connection plate like that too.

Check out this thread:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?89363-improved-batt-charging-clamp-instructions

I also made a charging clamp and it's excellent :)
As for myself, I found a 16.5v wallwart that can put out ~7.5 amps, so I got lucky and used that. Before that, I used an old computer power supply.

Also take a look here:
http://lygte-info.dk/info/HobbyChargers UK.html

If you want to parallel charge, you'll probably want to use a cradle. The Luminous DIY cradle listed at that site is not being sold anymore, but take a look around on DX where you can probably find a cheap charger to take apart. Just take out the electronics and replace with a wire connecting them in parallel.

 

[amigafan2003]

You will need a power supply of some sort thats for sure. If you prefer you can use an old computer supply for much of your needs but you wouldn't be able to charge anything over 12 volts.

So tell me, how am I able to charge my 6s20000mah lipo pack (25.2v hot voltage) when I'm only using a 13.4v power supply to power the 106b?

 

[hellokitty[hk]]

I believe that it's only slightly limited in it's charging wattage when under 12v...

 

[VegasF6]

So tell me, how am I able to charge my 6s20000mah lipo pack (25.2v hot voltage) when I'm only using a 13.4v power supply to power the 106b?

Oh yah? I thought it was strictly a buck circuit. I only use it as such, my power supply is capable of 30V.
In that case, it must be as HK says and your only limitations would be total wattage - inefficiencies in the circuit and whatever minimal power the circuitry itself consumes. I am sure all those details are in the manual.
I do know I experienced some very strange results with that charger one time when my power supply voltage suddenly dipped due to my leaving the constant current setting on. Suddenly my output voltage climbed WAY higher than it should have. I posted a thread about it somewhere here as well as at RCgroups.com
So make sure your power supply is more than sufficient for the load you put on it or strange things happen.

*edit*
Heres that post:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=839657&page=559#post16160050

 

[opiy]

I do have the Ultrafire WF-138/139 chargers I could gut.

I might have most of what I would need here already it seems. I think I have some banana plugs left over from hooking up the home theater system, i'm just not sure if they are 4mm.

Are there pics somewhere showing where someone gutted and soldered the Ultrafire cradle? I could probably figure it out but pics help :)

Thanks for the help! lovecpf

 

[Justin Case]

I like the Bulgin battery holders. I wired five C holders in parallel. Bulgin also has 123A and D holders. If you can find Luminous DIY holders, they work well with 18650 cells.

 

[Wreck3r]

I'm also interested in this subject as I am also trying to accomplish the same thing with a hobby charger like iCharger.

I have read about two methods of charging multiple Li-Ion batteries:
1. In parallel
2. In series with the help of the balancing port

The thing is I don't know the advantages of one method over the other. Also what will be the settings for the charger in both case (cell number, and charging rate).

If anyone can clarify the above options it would be great.

Cheers

 

[opiy]

I like the Bulgin battery holders. I wired five C holders in parallel. Bulgin also has 123A and D holders. If you can find Luminous DIY holders, they work well with 18650 cells.

Could I charge just one or two batteries at a time even if I have say four holders wired together like the way you do?

Can I stil test cells with those holders or will I need a different setup like the clamp posted above?

Thanks!

 

[opiy]

VegasF6 hit the nail on the thread there, you'll need a source of DC power like the power supply in the combo linked or a lead acid battery type source.

Magnets work well, but you have to be careful in soldering to them. Too much heat and they lose their magic.

I've looked at a few design ideas, but never "commercialized" anything and do not offer any available options at present.

Here is a quick photo of my own jig for this, which I'm personally pretty fond of :). Uses a small clamp and some copper electrical fittings and can take some pretty high current for discharge testing of larger LiFe cells as well. If I did it again I’d probably eliminate the wood blocks and copper widgets, substituting large button head screws. The one I built was for high current discharge testing.

Happy charging!

- David (Owner, ProgressiveRC)

Hello David,
Maybe one day there will be a Flash-O-Holic kit people like me can buy (hint hint) :thumbsup:

Larry

 

[Justin Case]

Could I charge just one or two batteries at a time even if I have say four holders wired together like the way you do?

Can I stil test cells with those holders or will I need a different setup like the clamp posted above?

Thanks!

Yes, you can insert any number of cells from 1 to 5 (or however many holders are wired in parallel).

What do you mean by test? You can test single cells no problem -- discharge curves, internal resistance, whatever.

 

[Justin Case]

I'm also interested in this subject as I am also trying to accomplish the same thing with a hobby charger like iCharger.

I have read about two methods of charging multiple Li-Ion batteries:
1. In parallel
2. In series with the help of the balancing port

The thing is I don't know the advantages of one method over the other. Also what will be the settings for the charger in both case (cell number, and charging rate).

If anyone can clarify the above options it would be great.

Cheers

Charging in parallel makes the cells look like one giant cell and the cells are self-balancing to an extent. It's probably best if all of the cells are as identical as possible, particularly resting voltage. The usual advice is to parallel charge cells that are within 0.5V of each other to avoid the possibility of a high initial surge current. In theory, you can charge cells of different capacities, e.g., an 16340 with an 18650. You set the charger so that the charge current is 1C for that of the smallest capacity cell. Thus, if you had an AW16340 and an AW18650-2600, you would use a charge current of ~1A, which delivers 500mA charge to each cell.

I typically parallel charge cells taken from the same multi-cell flashlight. They went into the light new and closely matched, so I keep them together and charge them together. So, for example, I'll charge all five AW IMR26500 cells together from my high-powered Osram Mag mod, or the three AW17670 cells from my SureFire M6.

Series charging of Li-ions requires individual cell balancing since Li-ions aren't self-balancing in series. The hobby charger typically allows you to monitor each cell individually in terms of things like cell voltage, charge time, temp, etc. You can't do that with parallel charging.

 

[zer0ne]

Do you really need such high power charger and do you need usb output graph? Else just get a smaller charger will do the trick as well.

 

[write2dgray]

Maybe Larry, I've got all sorts of useful prototypes, many of which look and can be quite dangerous :). The only thing we've released for this market that is incredibly useful are our magnetic charge leads, which are very well constructed.

Cheers,
David

 

[Kenjutsu]

write2dgray, what type of wire did you use, or is the size not critical? I want to do something similar for my iCharger :)

 

[write2dgray]

12awg, but 14 is probably sufficient. The trick is making the connection without overly heating the neodymium as it will demagnetize.

 

[VegasF6]

May I suggest you look into buying cupped magnets that include a hole in the center? This would allow you to make a mechanical connection instead of soldering. Something like these:
http://www.kjmagnetics.com/categories.asp?cat=174

 

[Knight_Light]

They actually sell charging cables with magnets on one end and 4 mm banana plugs on the other. So if you are not confident with your skills in making one you can just buy one that is already made.