Interesting AUDI DRL reflector design

[Roger555]

A few questions about a set of replica S6 Audi DRL units I have.

First can anyone identify the LEDs being used in this unit? Probably not a popular die but they are pretty bright.

Second, I love how the LEDs are mounted from the bottom pointing up to utilize a seashell shaped reflector that project the light and create a "cutoff" of sorts.

Anyone know of a similar reflector design available to purchase?



Can anyone identify this LED?

Beam Pattern

 

[octobersky]

The LED appears to be a K2 (lumileds) style package however the visible wire bond leads me to believe it isn't lumileds because they have flip-chips (no wire bonds). The "glob" phosphor approach was popular with warm white LEDs several years ago, but most manufacturers have transitioned to a conformal approach.

 

[deadrx7conv]

Look like generic imported LEDs(available in various wattages) commonly found online and ebay, for example:
http://www.satistronics.com/3w-high-power-led-wholesale-no-aluminium-pcb-board-50pcstube_p2573.html

Most of the DRL kits that I've seen aim the LED forward. Is this aiming the LED vertically into a reflector? Interesting setup. What brand/seller, and LED power output...?

 

[bshanahan14rulz]

Generic 1W.

However, that is quite the setup and design for an aftermarket part. It's not the Hellas, is it?

 

[Walterk]

Wondering, is there any thermal connection to the metal under the green board?

 

[Roger555]

I bought these at umnitza there is no brand listed, and yes the quality is top notch! They might be generic but I think they are 3W not 1W they are much brighter then my 1W generics and the color is neutral probably 4500-5000K.

Also Yes the PCB board has an aluminum core and is screwed to the aluminum block with plenty of heatsink compound.

I recently added a slight tint to the front they they blend better on my car so I'm looking to probably upgrade them. Whats the easiest way to figure out what the current driver is spitting out in terms of voltage and amps? I thought I wrote down the # on the driver but I cant find it, this is the best picture I took of the area.

Also added some Amber rebels mounting right next to the white LEDS so they could function as a turn signal.

^ They are mounted much nicer and cleaner then the picture above, that was just during testing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5cGdUuY63Q

 

[Norm]

Moved to Automotive Lighting - Norm

 

[-Virgil-]

Much (most? all?) of Ümnïtzä's stuff is what the Germans call "nachbau", which translates loosely but accurately to "knockoff"; If I were you I would reserve the gleeful reaction to the (perceived) quality until after you've had these in service long enough to see how they hold up (or don't).

I hope you are using the turn signal add-ons as supplemental/auxiliary turns, and not as primary ones (i.e., you haven't removed your car's original turn signals); no matter what you might add to this DRL unit, it is not going to turn into any kind of a legally adequate turn signal. Keep in mind that car lights aren't like flashlights; car lights are safety devices that have to work according to fairly stringent, narrowly-defined parameters including minimum and maximum intensity at a wide and tall range of points throughout the light distribution, hookup and operational mode, environmental resistance (likely gone now that these units have been cracked open), color of light emitted, and so on. This board has a rule against advocating or discussing illegal or dangerous modifications, and many homemade mods to car lights count as such. I'm not an administrator or anything, but while (IMO) you're not yet in territory that could definitely be called "illegal or dangerous mods", you're probably within sight of it.

The up-shooting emitter with "seashell" shaped optics is pretty widespread practice, but the specifics of the reflecting surface are particular to each and every design. It's not a standardized (or standardizable) optical element.

 

[mds82]

pretty cool idea of adding turn signals into it. I like it except the fact that your using a Audi style piece on an Acura. I'm just not a fan of cross matching brands.

 

[Alaric Darconville]

A few questions about a set of replica S6 Audi DRL units I have.

Keyword being "replica". Much like a "Rolecks", "Seyko", "Cityzen", you're getting something that resembles an item that has had hundreds or thousands of labor hours (and dollars) put into it, and made to less of a standard and more of a whim.

These could be producing dangerous levels of glare-- without the proper photometric testing, we can't really tell. Again, another thing you'll get from your genuine Sorny, Magnetbox, or Panaphonic - a device that seemingly functions but is full of unknowns.

 

[Roger555]

I appreciate the concern in regards to safety. Did you watch the video? The whole unit is a supplement to what already have on my vehicle, not a replacement. I have Turn signals on my mirrors, turn signals in my headlights and now turn signals in my bumper. The lens of the unit also is engraved with a DOT certification stamp or EAU I can’t remember exactly (not that it matters really).

In terms of quality I know looks can be deceptive but besides the fit and finish being superb, the circuitry looks well designed and all the soldering is precise. The heatsink is more then adequate (LEDs don’t even get warm). They have held up great for the past 8 months. A few road trips across country they were on constantly for 12 hours, but like everything time will tell.



Also the units open the same way headlights do in the oven or with a heat gun, and subsequently very easy to reseal properly with addition rubber butyl If necessary.

 

[Roger555]

I guess ill be living on the edge of the unknown then. I would have bought the real units for a few hundred more if I could find them. There is no glare except for some top glare which is what DRL are supposed to do. Also if your looking towards the front of the car and start walking forward down the side the lights appear dim and turn completely off. This was done intentially with the staggered shell reflectors. This way you don't blind traffic next to you or approaching from the side.

Anyways I'm not really after opinions on the quality or my retro. I just want to find some similar optics to these or something I can modify for another project I'm working on.

 

[AudiA4Turbo22]

Good luck buddy, I asked the same question on this forum over a year and a half ago. No one could provide me with an answer. However, the optics are proprietary to Audi, actually the company who makes them for Audi is Italian. I believe they are 1 watt LEDs, one of the reps from Umnitza confirmed that for me a while back. The standard S6 LEDs these were knocked off from in fact do use the Phillips Lumileds K2's. I wanted a set of these to try and run a set of CREE MC-E's a while back as they ran very cool yet produced quite a bit of light. With 5x3Watt LEDs per side these would be insane, a buddy of mine has the originals and they are bright enough, they actually illuminate the road quite a bit. If you put 3W LEDs in these puppies you could probably use these in place of your fog lights as driving lights.

 

[-Virgil-]

If you put 3W LEDs in these puppies you could probably use these in place of your fog lights as driving lights.

That wouldn't work. It would, however, be illegal and dangerous.

 

[Hypersapien]

That wouldn't work. It would, however, be illegal and dangerous.

SW, I am inclined to believe you that this would be illegal having read many of your "don't do this because of such and such regulations" comments. I havn't been able to find the DOT fog lamp/ driving lamp requirements however. Do they somehow quantify glare? Please let us all know so that we can avoid hassles from the famously omniscient law enforcement officers of these fine states of America.

 

[-Virgil-]

I havn't been able to find the DOT fog lamp/ driving lamp requirements however. Do they somehow quantify glare?

Fog and "driving" (auxiliary high beam) lamps are not Federally regulated, except by the provision of FMVSS #108 that prohibits any item of equipment from hindering the safety performance of an item of mandatory equipment. So, for example, an optional light (fog lamp, "driving" lamp, DRL) that is so intense (or is mounted) as to mask a nearby turn signal or other required light would be illegal under that provision. Fog and "driving" light construction, performance, and hookup are specified in SAE technical standards adopted by reference or otherwise by most North American jurisdictions. Fog lamps are defined to produce a bar-shaped beam with tightly controlled upward light and a sharp cutoff at the top of the beam. They are not allowed to be lit with high beams. "Driving" lamps are auxiliary high beams, which are not allowed to be lit by themselves or with low beams (only with main high beams) and produce a symmetrical beam with no glare control. Daytime running lights have their own SAE and DOT technical standards, which (like the beam specs for all lighting devices) call for a symmetrical beam with particular minimum and maximum intensities at various points in the beam. They are not allowed to be lit when the low or high beam headlamps are on. You cannot just "decide" a lamp's function; it has to meet the specs for design, construction, performance, and hookup for specific function(s).

 

[AudiA4Turbo22]

That wouldn't work. It would, however, be illegal and dangerous.

Not doubting you here, just would like to know why they wouldn't work.

I don't think it would be illegal, it's in a factory, DOT approved housing. Keep in mind that the S6 DRL's have a dimmer, they dim when the headlights are on and are full brightness when they are off.

 

[-Virgil-]

Not doubting you here, just would like to know why they wouldn't work.

I believe I have answered that in post #16. What may I try and clarify further for you?

I don't think it would be illegal

Your belief is not correct here. Please keep in mind that your not understanding why something is the case, does not make it stop being the case.

it's in a factory, DOT approved housing

There is no such thing as "DOT approval", number one. Number two -- I repeat myself -- automotive lighting devices are safety-certified as producing the functions for which they were designed and built, in this case a DRL function (bright) and a parking lamp function (dim). That does not mean they are able, legally or technically, to produce other functions simply because the owner wishes to use them that way.

 

[AudiA4Turbo22]

I believe I have answered that in post #16. What may I try and clarify further for you?



Your belief is not correct here. Please keep in mind that your not understanding why something is the case, does not make it stop being the case.



There is no such thing as "DOT approval", number one. Number two -- I repeat myself -- automotive lighting devices are safety-certified as producing the functions for which they were designed and built, in this case a DRL function (bright) and a parking lamp function (dim). That does not mean they are able, legally or technically, to produce other functions simply because the owner wishes to use them that way.

I thought you meant that it wouldn't be possible to implement the 3w LEDs into the board, so I was asking why so I can get a better understanding of how the system works.

And for the record, I'm not trying to defend my idea here, I completely understand that using these as fog lights would be illegal. I was mainly speaking for experimental purposes of messing with these units and seeing results as a fun and interesting project. I think the DRL's are good setups as they have nice reflectors, proper cooling via an aluminum bar, nicely designed circuit board and functionality. I was simply stating that if the unit uses 3w LEDs in place of the current 1w units and the unit is used for its intended purpose(as DRLs) not many would even know the difference during the day. Now whether that's illegal or not is a total different story.

Again, I'm not sure if you are taking offense by what I was stating, I'm sorry if that's the case. I have no intention in challenging your knowledge, I just wanted an explanation to better understand how the boards, LEDs and drivers work to broaden my LED knowledge. [:)]

 

[bshanahan14rulz]

If you increase the area of the original image, the projected image will increase in area proportionately.

Functionally, this means that you will not have a brighter hotspot, but rather a sloppier but larger output.