Japanese Vs Chinese Eneloop Cycle Testing Results

[Power Me Up]

I did run a new test on some Chinese made Eneloops that were manufactured more recently than those in my original test - with pretty much exactly the same results. I don't really feel like running yet another test on the Chinese Eneloops at the moment, but if they bring out a new version which different specs, I'll be happy to run another test again.

 

[WalkIntoTheLight]

I received a call from Panasonic Australian Customer Service today. They said Australia would be getting 70% capacity after 5 year Eneloops soon, but said country of origin is irrelevant. So reading into that is that either the quality of the Chinese "Eneloops" may be improving, or the claims on the packaging may be being "upgraded". Unfortunately I was busy at work and unable to ask more questions.

It's obvious from these results that country of origin does make a difference. So, I would disregard anything that customer service tells you.

 

[magellan]

Thanks for all the work trying to get to the bottom of this.

This is really too bad. It seems the Chinese are even better at sacrificing quality while boosting profits than American management. Well, they probably learned it from us. They're not dumb.

Bottom line is, with no real competition to China, they have no real incentive to maintain the original quality.

As someone once said, welcome to the future, you're gonna luv it! ;-(

 

[WalkIntoTheLight]

This is really too bad. It seems the Chinese are even better at sacrificing quality while boosting profits than American management. Well, they probably learned it from us. They're not dumb.

I doubt American-made NiMH cells would be any better than Chinese ones. Regardless, this is not the fault of the Chinese; it is the fault of Panasonic, a Japanese company. Panasonic has chosen to go with inferior cells, because it knows the public doesn't care. By the time the Chinese cells start failing in a few years, the consumer will have no idea nor care that Japanese cells would have lasted much longer. It's all about maximizing short-term profit, with probably little downside in the long-term. They're milking the Eneloop brand while they can.

There is competition to China. You can buy Japanese Eneloops instead. That's what I'll do. Unfortunately, the other 99% doesn't know the difference, and probably doesn't care. They'll buy whatever is available in their local store, or on Amazon.

This is how the market should work. Unfortunately, as is often the case, it will lead to lower quality.

 

[kreisl]

i am going to make sure mark that the mc3k manual will have a reference to your thread hehe
lovecpf

 

[magellan]

I doubt American-made NiMH cells would be any better than Chinese ones. Regardless, this is not the fault of the Chinese; it is the fault of Panasonic, a Japanese company. Panasonic has chosen to go with inferior cells, because it knows the public doesn't care. By the time the Chinese cells start failing in a few years, the consumer will have no idea nor care that Japanese cells would have lasted much longer. It's all about maximizing short-term profit, with probably little downside in the long-term. They're milking the Eneloop brand while they can.

There is competition to China. You can buy nJapanese Eneloops instead. That's what I'll do. Unfortunately, the other 99% doesn't know the difference, and probably doesn't care. They'll buy whatever is available in their local store, or on Amazon.

This is how the market should work. Unfortunately, as is often the case, it will lead to lower quality.

I had the perhaps incorrect impression that with production moving to China the Japanese versions would be phased out? If not there's some reason for optimism.

As for American made ones, well, I probably would agree; we can make mediocre products as well as anybody, but at least it would provide jobs.

And as for this being how markets should work, well, I can't disagree there. At least it is how they seem to work. In fact what the market wants is increasingly clueless people who are willing to spend more and more money on more and more inferior merchandise. So the manufacturers continue to cheapen the product, to the point where customers get so frustrated that they begin to have heart attacks and stroke out from sheer frustration.

After weeding out the weaker consumers, the following generations are tougher and more resilient. This process continues until you have very clueless, very stupid but extremely tough, tolerant, resilient sheep who are willing to pay high prices for garbage. Voila! The ultimate capitalist economy! Social Darwinism at its finest! LOL

Well, obviously I'm engaging in a bit of macroeconomic satire here but sometimes I wonder.

Come to think if it, we might already be well on our way!

 

[magellan]

So does anybody know a reliable source to get the Japanese Eneloops?

 

[stephenk]

It's obvious from these results that country of origin does make a difference. So, I would disregard anything that customer service tells you.

Oh, don't worry, I took that comment from customer service with a pinch of salt. If the Chinese Eneloops had the quality of the Japanese Eneloops then country of origin wouldn't be an issue, but unfortunately they appear to be an inferior product.

I did run a new test on some Chinese made Eneloops that were manufactured more recently than those in my original test - with pretty much exactly the same results. I don't really feel like running yet another test on the Chinese Eneloops at the moment, but if they bring out a new version which different specs, I'll be happy to run another test again.

Your testing is much appreciated. Did you publish a discharge comparison for the AAAs?

 

[WalkIntoTheLight]

So does anybody know a reliable source to get the Japanese Eneloops?

Costco. US or Canada.

 

[Power Me Up]

Your testing is much appreciated. Did you publish a discharge comparison for the AAAs?

Yes, you can find the results for the AAA cells here:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-Vs-Chinese-Eneloop-AAA-Cycle-Testing-Results

 

[magellan]

Costco. US or Canada.

Thanks!

 

[Rick NJ]

After reading this entire thread post by post, I was an Eneloop fan but no more.

That said, the point of my post is: it is wrong to say "Chinese made Eneloops" vs "Japan made Eneloops." At the start of the thread, much was unknown. As the thread progress, thanks to the research of fellow forum posters, we have more info. We now know we really are having a discussion of "FDK Eneloops" vs "Non FDK Eneloops".

1. It is clear from various posts that FDK owns the technology. Sanyo, and now Panasonic owns the Eneloop name.

2. FDK has the technology and Sanyo/Panasonic doesn't.

3. Panasonic can spec the Eneloop whatever they want, whether it is made in China or Japan or Congo, it still wont be the techonology of the FDK-Eneloops. So, it wont be like the "real" Eneloops.

4. FDK has the technology. Unless bounded by legal agreement, they can make the FDK-Eneloop and it would be like the "real" Eneloop. Except bounded by legal agreement, such "FDK-Eneloops" can be branded "Great Wall Battery" or "Forbidden City Cells" and it would work as well as the "original" Eneloops. It could even be made in China with FDK technology and it could be like "real" Eneloops.

So, the distinction between the then-Eneloops and the now-Eneloops is not really "where it was made" but instead it is "from whom it was sourced": From FDK with the FDK technology, or a Panasonic-cell from some (other) manufacturer with some other technology. So, this evolved into an "FDK Eneloop" vs "Non-FDK Eneloops" discussion.

I have enough FDK-Eneloops and won't be shopping for a while yet. When I do, it certainly wont be Panasonic Eneloops. I won't know if they are real FDK Eneloops or not.

 

[Kurt_Woloch]

Well, I'm usually talking about NiMh cells made in Japan and NiMh cells made in China since FDK claims they're the only plant making LSD NiMh cells in Japan.

Here in Austria, I haven't seen any Chinese made Eneloops yet, though the store I bought the last 8-pack from (Media Markt) seems to have run out on a few sizes of regular Eneloops and have raised the price on some of the others. Last time I checked, they only had the 2-packs, the 8-packs where each cell has a different color, and the 4-pack bundled with a charger (which has raised in price). I hope they get more, and they are still made in Japan.

If the Australians now get cells achieving 70% after 5 years, that's not good enough! Other markets get 70% after 10 years now. ;-)

The question is how good those Chinese cells really are in keeping the charge, which would be important for low-drain cells such as wall clocks. I know of other brands of LSD cells really only achieving 75% after a year, and who knows how much they still would have after 3, 5 or 10 years (they don't tell). If the Chinese Eneloops don't hold up to the cycle life claims, they might not hold up to the self-discharge claims as well.

Well... FDK does make the "FDK-Eneloops"... they are called Fujitsu Ready To Use Rechargeable (not really a snappy name however). As far as I know they are the exact same cells as Japanese Eneloops except for the wrapper... and they will always come from Japan since Fujitsu owns the FDK factory. They're just a pretty unknown brand for batteries, although their zinc-carbon cells seem to come with many remotes bundled with devices.

In the end, it's all a calculation which battery fits your need best. If the "Chinesification" of Eneloops goes on, and it gets hard to find real FDK product, it might get (or remain) cost-effective to use alkalines in some of the low-drain devices instead, as much as I'd hate to do that.

Another question would be what happens to the LSD properties of old (aged or heavily cycled) LSD batteries... do they now self discharge much quicker, or do they still retain their charge (or whatever is left of it) as well as they did when they were new?

 

[Kouryu]

So does anybody know a reliable source to get the Japanese Eneloops?

Amazon, Costco, Best Buy, among some of the few

There's not any reason to worry about this at this time because Panasonic USA still does not import any Chinese made Eneloops!

 

[magellan]

Amazon, Costco, Best Buy, among some of the few

There's not any reason to worry about this at this time because Panasonic USA still does not import any Chinese made Eneloops!

That's at least reassuring.

 

[Madcow07]

So does anybody know a reliable source to get the Japanese Eneloops?

As of last week, most USA Costco stores in my area had a limited quantity of Eneloops with chargers at a very attractive price. These are pending delete, so get them fast. 10x AA, 4x AAA, CC17 charger. Batteries from Japan, charger from China. $22. USD.

 

[Kouryu]

As of last week, most USA Costco stores in my area had a limited quantity of Eneloops with chargers at a very attractive price. These are pending delete, so get them fast. 10x AA, 4x AAA, CC17 charger. Batteries from Japan, charger from China. $22. USD.

The limited quantities is due to the close out sale for the current packaging of Costco Eneloops... they are switching to the "up to 70% after 10 years" packaging... the cell #s are exactly the same though

 

[Jash]

Didn't want to start a new thread so I'll ask my question here. Are the Durcell LSD rechargeables made in Japan with the black top made by Panasonic?

Eneloops here in Australia are all Chinese now, but I can get Japanese Durcells for less money than eneloops.

 

[onthebeam]

Didn't want to start a new thread so I'll ask my question here. Are the Durcell LSD rechargeables made in Japan with the black top made by Panasonic?

Eneloops here in Australia are all Chinese now, but I can get Japanese Durcells for less money than eneloops.

Many believe they are made be FDK and have repeatedly tested to be near identical with Eneloop Pros. Other options to match standard Eneloops include the white label Fujitsus--same factory, too.

I bought the Duracells. Good stuff.

 

[KeepingItLight]

HJK recently reviewed the Duracell rechargeables that are sold in the EU.

Not wanting to put words in his mouth, it is my interpretation that he gave them a thumbs-up.