Japanese Vs Chinese Eneloop Cycle Testing Results

[NikonF5]

The only reason I can think of for Panasonic to start production in China is to lower their production costs and thats a move that only makes sense if they eventually plan to move all production to China.

Just to be clear, yes, if this scenario comes to pass, since its not owned by Panasonic, the Japanese plant [FDK] will STILL be operational making equivalent Ni-Mh LSD batteries for Fujitsu, etc; they just wont be making Eneloops.

For those that still have local access to Japanese Eneloops and want to stock up, I would start now.
For those that dont have local access to Japanese Eneloops and want to stock up, you can always go through ChibiM on this thread and order them direct from Japan.

I dont have any insider information or access to it, just making the only logical inference based on a business move that Panasonic has already made and what common sense dictates a move like that was probably based on.

I am in Canada and already have 32 AA's and 36 AAA's on order and have already received my AAA's as of the date of this post.

Just to be clear, although this is my sole logical inference based on the evidence so far, it IS still only my opinion so pls refrain from chewing my head off on this :tinfoil:

 

[ksquared]

For those that still have local access to Japanese Eneloops and want to stock up, I would start now.

What I'm wondering is has anybody compared "Made In Japan" and Purchased In Japan Eneloops to "Made In Japan" and purchased outside of Japan? Is it remotely possible that different countries get different Eneloops even from "Made In Japan"?

Thanks to Power Me Up for all the effort put into researching the differences of the Eneloop batteries.

 

[James Bond]

These were purchased by me last week here in New Zealand from an authorised Eneloop/Panasonic dealer (The AAA's seem to have Singapore packaging while the AA's have AU/NZ packaging.)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hhq72ew5pfn52eo/DSCN0985.JPG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7frn62sogvyb7ax/DSCN0986.JPG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2zcc2phumi3dyw6/DSCN0983.JPG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6r05iwbq1q3z6uk/DSCN0984.JPG?dl=0

 

[ChibiM]

These were purchased by me last week here in New Zealand from an authorised Eneloop/Panasonic dealer (The AAA's seem to have Singapore packaging while the AA's have AU/NZ packaging.)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hhq72ew5pfn52eo/DSCN0985.JPG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7frn62sogvyb7ax/DSCN0986.JPG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2zcc2phumi3dyw6/DSCN0983.JPG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6r05iwbq1q3z6uk/DSCN0984.JPG?dl=0

3rd generation cells!

 

[gallon]

3rd generation cells!

The AAA's appear to be Japanese 3rd gen eneloops.
The AA's appear to be genuine Chinese 4th gen eneloops.

 

[ChibiM]

Correct, I just opened the first 2 pics...

 

[gcronau]

The date code on the Japanese cells looks like 13 0610 - maybe the 10th of June 2013?

On every eneloop I've owned, and that's about 240 of them, the made-in-japan date code is of the form:
Y Y -MMXX

Or:
{digit}<space>{digit}<space><dash>{digit}{digit}{UC-letter}{UC-letter}
(There is no space between the dash and the 3rd digit.)

The "Y Y" is the last 2 digits of the year, and the "MM" is the month. I've never found a good explanation of the 2 letters following the month. Could be day of the month, could be a lot code, could be a code for the specific manufacturing line that produced the cell.

In your example, yes, the 13 06 means June of 2013. However, I suspect the last 2 characters are IO(Eye Oh) as opposed to 10(one zero).

 

[gcronau]

My last three Eneloop buys have been kits of 4 AAA cells, 10 AA cells and a BQ-CC17 charger.
All of my cells are dark and light blue.
I've got no DOM listed anywhere.

By "DOM" do you mean "Date of Manufacture"?

If so, the date isn't printed on the battery, it's stamped or pressed into the label, so it's hard to see. You need to use a light source at an angle and/or a magnifier, or better, a jeweler's loupe. It's just above the label's seam on all eneloops made in Japan. Just under the words "SANYO Electric Co., Ltd." on Gen3's.

 

[mojo-chan]

No response from Panasonic yet?

This is indeed very disappointing. I wonder if their numbers are based on much gentler charging, at least periodically. Their datasheets mention doing a slow 16 hour charge before measuring capacity, rather than a 1C charge. In any case, it sucks. I just hope that they keep selling the made in Japan cells in some markets. I've seen this sort of thing before, they produce cheaper versions for markets where they think most people don't really care and will accept the inferior versions. Not enough battery enthusiasts in Australia?

 

[Power Me Up]

No response from Panasonic yet?

No - but to be fair, I haven't followed up with them either...

This is indeed very disappointing. I wonder if their numbers are based on much gentler charging, at least periodically. Their datasheets mention doing a slow 16 hour charge before measuring capacity, rather than a 1C charge. In any case, it sucks. I just hope that they keep selling the made in Japan cells in some markets. I've seen this sort of thing before, they produce cheaper versions for markets where they think most people don't really care and will accept the inferior versions. Not enough battery enthusiasts in Australia?

The cycle life ratings are based on a different testing method which is indeed done at lower charging and discharging rates.

Unfortunately, the number of battery enthusiasts probably isn't of great concern to them. They presumably think that Australians prefer cheaper prices ahead of quality products and I suspect that they're probably right for the majority unfortunately...

 

[C8793]

the test is over an year old. Is it still valid?

Probably the manufacturing process had improved (it looks like even AAA chinese-made outperforms the FDK-japonese made eneloops)

I've been reading across several threads and it looks like chinese-made versions are rated at 65%, but in their newest panasonic eneloop product page they rate it at 70% :thinking:

 

[Power Me Up]

It's quite possible that they've improved the manufacturing in China, but as far as I'm aware, they haven't announced a new generation with better performance, so I'd say that it's probably safer to assume that they haven't...

Although the graphic on that page says 70%, the text below says 65% to 70% In some markets, they're still selling the Japanese made Eneloops, so I'd assume that the 70% is referring to them rather than to the Chinese made Eneloops.

 

[MidnightDistortions]

the test is over an year old. Is it still valid?

Probably the manufacturing process had improved (it looks like even AAA chinese-made outperforms the FDK-japonese made eneloops)

I've been reading across several threads and it looks like chinese-made versions are rated at 65%, but in their newest panasonic eneloop product page they rate it at 70% :thinking:

It's a regional thing, i'm sure if there's a Chinese Panasonic website, Eneloops would be rated at 65%. I'm just glad USA is selling the Japanese ones.

 

[Rosoku Chikara]

No response from Panasonic yet?

This is indeed very disappointing. I wonder if their numbers are based on much gentler charging, at least periodically. Their datasheets mention doing a slow 16 hour charge before measuring capacity, rather than a 1C charge. In any case, it sucks. I just hope that they keep selling the made in Japan cells in some markets. I've seen this sort of thing before, they produce cheaper versions for markets where they think most people don't really care and will accept the inferior versions. Not enough battery enthusiasts in Australia?

I decided to look into this matter a little while ago. Here is what I learned:

1) While I am no expert at searching the Japanese language internet, I could find no pertinent information using search phrases in Japanese such as "Panasonic Eneloop" "Made in China," etc. My conclusion is that if serious Japanese Eneloop users are aware of the Chinese made cells, they are not "buzzing about it." (Not, yet?)

2) My contact at FDK (Well placed, so he understands my questions, and knows the answers. But, I have never actually met him.) while open enough on many subjects, remains extremely closed mouthed about anything do do with Panasonic, or even any of their "other" OEM products such as Amazon Basics(?). He will neither confirm nor deny. He simply refuses to discuss any cells other than those of the Fujitsu brand. He would not even confirm that they remain the only NiMH consumer battery plant in Japan (which was once stated on their website).

On the other hand, I know he is interested in any new developments regarding Chinese Eneloops. (I can simply tell that by his manner over the telephone.) So, I suspect that if I were to ever go to the trouble to go meet him in person, I could probably "read between the lines" and confirm some of the speculation on the forum. I think the problem is not so much that all OEM brands want to hide where their cells come from... in the case of a brand like Eneloops where you might want to say "Same as Eneloops, only cheaper." But, that would make Panasonic very angry. If you said "Same as Fujitsu, only cheaper," that would make his own "Fujitsu brand" battery people very unhappy.

So, he really just cannot talk about it, at all.

3) I tried contacting Panasonic directly. Took me a bit to get past all the underlings and speak to someone who even really understood what I was saying. I couched my question as a member of a "large club" who have very demanding NiMH needs (and are huge fans of the Eneloop cells), and that while "most consumers" would find the "Made in China" cells were perfectly fine, we have special needs that make us prefer the "Made in Japan" cells.

Unfortunately, Panasonic is such a large organization that even the person I spoke to probably does not know Panasonic's long term strategy.

The first statement that I got was that the "Made in China" cells were only being sold into the "South East Asian Markets" and that Eneloops sold in Japan would always be "Made in Japan." South East Asia has a strong "pejoratic" connotation in Japan, so it was like saying "It really doesn't matter, since those cells are only going to South East Asia." When I pointed out that New Zealand and Australia were certainly not "South East Asia" we were left in an awkward silence and they eventually made the statement that "Panasonic has no existing plans to switch the source of Eneloops sold into the Japanese from Japan to China." And, I think this is indeed most probably true. But, I also think that only time will tell.

Don't know how much this helps, but it is the latest information that I have on this subject.

 

[Grijon]

I've said it before and I'll say it again (and he can tell me if he's tired of hearing it):

Rosoku Chikara is the man.

 

[stephenk]

It's been a few months since the last post in this thread, and it seems that most Australian retailers now only have the Chinese made (65% after 5 years) Eneloops in stock, and still at high prices.

Has anyone been able to perform some more recent tests on the Chinese Eneloops now that more than half a year has passed since they were introduced?

Has anyone had any further feedback from Panasonic on why the Aussies and Kiwis have a different Eneloop product to other developed countries?
(I'm currently awaiting response from Panasonic from my own enquiry).

Thanks in advance for any answers.

 

[Kouryu]

My best guesses are:
-Poor AUD and NZD exchange rate with JPY, hurting profit margins
-Oceania's Eneloop sales distribution is handled by Panasonic Singapore, they control the entire SE and South Asia distribution also, and dictate marketing and product lines
-Since those Asian countries have also switched to Chinese Eneloops, for likely a more favorable exchange rate to the respective local currencies for many of those countries, it didn't make sense to continue Japanese imports

Meanwhile, USD and CAD are much stronger and command a favorable exchange rate with JPY, making it possible to maintain/improve profit margins... I would imagine it be the same for the Euro and GBP

 

[Mr Floppy]

and it seems that most Australian retailers now only have the Chinese made (65% after 5 years) Eneloops in stock, and still at high prices.

The chocolate tones are under 15 dollars if you wait for the sales. I'm refusing to buy them and trying to discourage others but it seems futile.

 

[kreisl]

Has anyone been able to perform some more recent tests on the Chinese Eneloops now that more than half a year has passed since they were introduced?

+1 seconded.

The 2000 cycles claim should be retested every half year on both the Japanese and the Chinese Eneloop. Old test results are simply that, old. One will never know if they still hold true after all that time.

 

[stephenk]

I received a call from Panasonic Australian Customer Service today. They said Australia would be getting 70% capacity after 5 year Eneloops soon, but said country of origin is irrelevant. So reading into that is that either the quality of the Chinese "Eneloops" may be improving, or the claims on the packaging may be being "upgraded". Unfortunately I was busy at work and unable to ask more questions.