KL1 second impressions...

[guncollector]

Okay, I've been using my E1+KL1 as my EDC light for long enough to know that it would be perfect--except for the terrible blue tint to my KL1's Luxeon!

Yes, this unit would even replace my Arc SLS. I find the slightly narrower gauge of the battery compartment and SF-style tailcap, makes up for its longer length (but not much longer than an Arc with clickie).

Oh well, maybe SF will start procuring less blue, more white Luxeons in the future... I don't know who said it, but they were right in stating SF should be procuring better beam-color Luxeons for the volume they're procuring... Or does everyone think SF feels this blue-tint is preferrable? Yuck...

 

[brightnorm]

Originally posted by guncollector:
Okay, I've been using my E1+KL1 as my EDC light for long enough to know that it would be perfect--except for the terrible blue tint to my KL1's Luxeon!

Yes, this unit would even replace my Arc SLS. I find the slightly narrower gauge of the battery compartment and SF-style tailcap, makes up for its longer length (but not much longer than an Arc with clickie).

Oh well, maybe SF will start procuring less blue, more white Luxeons in the future... I don't know who said it, but they were right in stating SF should be procuring better beam-color Luxeons for the volume they're procuring... Or does everyone think SF feels this blue-tint is preferrable? Yuck...

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree, and I was so determined to get a better color that I ordered four more, in addition to the one I have. I'm assuming that some will be whiter than others but I'm beginning to worry that they are almost all like this.

Surefire had assured us that they would be "hand selected".

Whose hand?

Brightnorm

 

[Wolfen]

I think Surefire equates blue with brighter, or is it blue is better?

I prefer blue to sickly green and that's my humble opinion

 

[KenBar]

IMHO..blue...or better...light violet is much much better than alien green.

Something about the green is unpleasant to me. It could be something to do with the red after image that happens after using green (another thread about green only).

I am going to wait till after Christmas to order the Surefire to make sure all the green ones get out of the system.

BTY...how much did you pay for your one? And where did you get it?

 

[Sean]

I tend to agree. I really like my KL1 but the blue is a bit much, enough to mess up propper color rendition. Although I don't have anything to replace it.

Oh Lumileds!

Is a perfect Luxeon Star possible?

 

[guncollector]

Contrarian...

Maybe I'm the only one, but I'll take a white hotspot, with slightly green corona over an "all blue/violet" Luxeon any day. (Though, NO "all green" for me either.

My two Ill Pills and Arc SLS are both this way (white HS, slightly green corona)--though you couldn't even really tell the green corona unless you're comparing it with another light...

 

[McGizmo]

Unless something changes, I think you can count on the KLx series to be providing the Luxeons in the higher color temperature range which will yield the blue to violet tint. I also prefer this color to the warmer whites but it's surely a personal preference. I prefer the Arc AAA to the Arc AAA LE because of the higher color temp.

I think what is really confusing are the adjectives we are forced to use. By this I refer to a cooler color temp is a warmer white and the white to blue you get in the higher color temps are considered a colder light.

- Don

 

[guncollector]

Don says:
Unless something changes, I think you can count on the KLx series to be providing the Luxeons in the higher color temperature range which will yield the blue to violet tint. I also prefer this color to the warmer whites but it's surely a personal preference. I prefer the Arc AAA to the Arc AAA LE because of the higher color temp.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Interesting, Don. Any particular reason why (you prefer the higher color temp [more blue] Luxeons)?

Not that it matters, but I figured (wrongly I guess) that the most desirable light tint would be white for its more accurate color rendoring.

 

[Darell]

Actually, the best light color for accurate color rendering is sunlight. Sunlight is NOT quite white, however, but it is what we must standardize on since it is all we know as "natural light." A truly white light would still look strange to our eyes, and would not render colors as we're used to seeing them "naturally."

And just because the lower (warmer) colored Luxeons that Arc and others use are probably more incandescent-like, that doesn't make them closer to white, necessarily. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, of course. But I too prefer a blue tint to a green or yellow tint. Mabye it is because we can only get that sort of light from an LED -b ut I like it!

 

[McGizmo]

Ron,

I think it's really a color preference. I think I got stuck on the white with blue tint from working with the nichias in some of my fixed lights and installations. I like the moon light color at night and it *seems* easier on my eyes? Color rendition aside, if we are talking about subtle tints, I do think it becomes almost analogus to what's your favorite color and is there a right one. Even sunglasses have tinted lenses and folks prefer diferent tints for different subjective reasons.

If I were working on an electrical panel at night, I certainly would want a *pure* white light so I could identify the various colors of the wires. Since most of my illumination needs tend towards monochromatic information, I'm not so much of a stickler on the tint and again prefer the blue to a yellow or green.

One very interesting experiment would be to take some of the various hued white Luxeons and shine them on a multi colored target. Since none of the Luxeons are really full spectrum light sources, I wonder if a particular tint would demonstrably be superior in returning a more correct image rendition baste on the true colors. Probably more important, do any of these tints in the Luxeons render us color blind to an important color? I gave up on using a red light while sailing because the red lines and warnings on charts didn't show.

To specifically answer your question, I haven't had the opportunity to see a *white* white Luxeon, all have been off white to some extent and in these cases, I prefer the blue side.

- Don

 

[brightnorm]

I think that we have to make a distinction between "subtle tints" and severe coloration. Obviously, people's color perception and tastes differ, but when a majority of users react negatively to the color and a majority of observers agree (I tried my KL1 out at work. EVERY person said: "it's so blue" or "it's so purple" Admittedly this was a small sample, about 9 or 10 people, but the agreement was striking).

When Luxeons first came out the expectation was "brighter AND whiter". Now it appears that the "dreaded Nichia blue" coorelates with brightness in Luxeons as well.
Here's how it appears to me:

1) Surefire has first pick of any Luxeons it wants
2) Surefire has assured us that it will "hand select" its Luxeons
3) Almost every reported KL1 is very blue/purple

Conclusion: Surefire is deliberately choosing these Luxeons, and I agree with Don; we just may have to live with it.

Realizing this, I now feel like a dupe, having ordered four more KL-1's in hopes of getting a whiter one. Maybe I'll cancel two of them and hope for the best. I may just keep using my My ARC seconds (2AA lith). They are wonderful lights, superior in most ways to the KL1's, significantly more compact (will actually fit into a Mag 2AAA holster - nearly 50% less bulge than E2e/KL1/V82), very bright broad white beam with a subtle blue/violet tinge, not as spot-like as the SF and not fully regulated but longer lasting and much better for color accuracy. Also, if properly lubed and broken in, the SLS affords easy one hand operation in the preferred non tactical "normal" flashlight position.

BTW, anyone know whether these lights are waterproof/resistant?

Brightnorm

 

[Quickbeam]

What really gets me are the wacko tints of the LS these days. When they first came out I ordered 2 raw LS from Peter. Someone else who ordered some at the same time commented on the LS being the "sunshine LED" and based on the ones I got at the time I had to agree. The color is a beautiful white with a slight pinkish/amber/yellow tint (that's the best I can describe it). Looks absolutely great - soft white light very comfortable on the eyes. One is in a regulated DoubleBarrel mod I made and the other in the ROV Adventurelite headlamp mod.

Based on what I've seen lately, I wouldn't trade them for the world, nor would I buy another raw LS....

Of the recent Luxeon Stars I have gotten, the Ill Pill is definately white/blue, the Reactor is the closest to "pure white" but has a very slight greenish yellow tint, the Aitec and the InReTech are very green/white.

 

[vcal]

About that tint....
Quickbeam's color description matches my impression of the earlier Luxeon.

I held up my Luxeon DB mod right next to an Osram R.S. (Cool White) pocket fluorescent, and compared the two tints of the lights. -They (except for the beam, of course) were IDENTICAL.
That's also my favorite tint in a Luxeon.

Someone here a while back commented on the earlier Luxeon (without the optics) as being much more bluish than it is with it's optics.

Added:
Interestingly, Wayne's photos of the beams of the 20 new High Domes that he got, also show that same nice "cool white" color.

 

[geepondy]

Originally posted by guncollector:

Maybe I'm the only one, but I'll take a white hotspot, with slightly green corona over an "all blue/violet" Luxeon any day. (Though, NO "all green" for me either.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree with you completely. If the green corona is only slight then it doesn't show up in real life applications and the mostly white center dominates. My violet KL1 is violet thruout the entire beam and is noticeable in real life applications. I'm disappointed. I'm all too well aware of the widely varying beams of the Luxeon but for a "hand selected" LED, I expected better.

 

[guncollector]

More weirdness in my KL1...

Playing around more this evening with my KL1, and I just discovered that while I have a definite blue/violet tint, the corona is a greenish hue! I seriously don't know how I didn't notice this before, even after closely comparing the KL1 to my other Luxeon lights. Maybe because I was closely examining the KL1 alone?

Hmmm... Disappointing.

I sure hope SF decides to buy the "white" Luxeon bin from Lumileds in the future.

My instincts tell me that Surefire probably could've bought all the white they wanted, but my guess is there probably wasn't sufficient quantity of the whites to assure Surefire of a consistent supply. Either that, or the whites were too pricey to fit their price point.

 

[brightnorm]

Originally posted by this_is_nascar:
...Brightnorm, been there, done that. You won't get one that is whiter. You may get one brighter, but it just means a more intense blue tint

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Nascar,

You are depressing me!!

BN

 

[brightnorm]

Originally posted by McGizmo:
...
I have designed a simple Al reflector that will drop in as a replacement for standard optics.... -Don

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Don,

Thanks for the H2O info. That reflector sounds interesting, but I assume it's for modders and I don't have skills in that area.

Brightnorm

 

[Banshee]

Norm..If you get stuck with too many KL1's (if thats possible for a true flash-o-phile) I'd be happy to take one off your hands..

Dave (CPF Noobie)

 

[brightnorm]

Originally posted by Banshee:
Norm..If you get stuck with too many KL1's (if thats possible for a true flash-o-phile) I'd be happy to take one off your hands..

Dave (CPF Noobie)

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Let's wait and see

BN

 

[this_is_nascar]

Originally posted by brightnorm:
I think that we have to make a distinction between "subtle tints" and severe coloration. Obviously, people's color perception and tastes differ, but when a majority of users react negatively to the color and a majority of observers agree (I tried my KL1 out at work. EVERY person said: "it's so blue" or "it's so purple" Admittedly this was a small sample, about 9 or 10 people, but the agreement was striking).

When Luxeons first came out the expectation was "brighter AND whiter". Now it appears that the "dreaded Nichia blue" coorelates with brightness in Luxeons as well.
Here's how it appears to me:

1) Surefire has first pick of any Luxeons it wants
2) Surefire has assured us that it will "hand select" its Luxeons
3) Almost every reported KL1 is very blue/purple

Conclusion: Surefire is deliberately choosing these Luxeons, and I agree with Don; we just may have to live with it.

Realizing this, I now feel like a dupe, having ordered four more KL-1's in hopes of getting a whiter one. Maybe I'll cancel two of them and hope for the best. I may just keep using my My ARC seconds (2AA lith). They are wonderful lights, superior in most ways to the KL1's, significantly more compact (will actually fit into a Mag 2AAA holster - nearly 50% less bulge than E2e/KL1/V82), very bright broad white beam with a subtle blue/violet tinge, not as spot-like as the SF and not fully regulated but longer lasting and much better for color accuracy. Also, if properly lubed and broken in, the SLS affords easy one hand operation in the preferred non tactical "normal" flashlight position.

BTW, anyone know whether these lights are waterproof/resistant?

Brightnorm

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">... been there, done that. You won't get one that is whiter. You may get one brighter, but it just means a more intense blue tint.