Krypton vs Xenon - how much difference (Maglite)

[Chicken Drumstick]

Just wondering out of idle curiosity how much difference there is in performance between the older Krypton bulbs and the current Xenon ones in the D cell Maglites?

I don't have a Xenon one and have never even seen one being used, so I have no frame of reference.

Although looking at the Maglite site, the Xenon ones seem to be putting up some very stout cd figures, e.g.

3D Xenon
16,280cd

6D Xenon
28,547cd


Are they really as good as they look on paper? I don't recall the old krypton ones being anywhere close. In fact I tried a 6D bulb on 7.2v but only managed 4500cd!

 

[LeanBurn]

On my 2D the difference from Krypton to Xenon is noticeable. If I were to put it to numbers it would be 19L vs 29L difference. At those levels of output is quite a jump. I don't know about the 3D or higher as I don't have them. Some digging as to the original outputs and their respective upgrades from Krypton to Xenon are online.

 

[ampdude]

I had a new 4D Krypton back around 2007 and I remember being surprised at how bright it was.

I just grabbed a 4D Mag with the newer bi-pin xenon out of a drawer and I don't think there's a huge difference in brightness, other than that the beam is more pinpoint throwy, and has less orange in it. Basically a smaller, cooler hotspot. I may have to dig out a 4 cell krypton and compare them side to side to see if I'm remembering correctly.

I have a potted magnumstar xenon in a 6 volt lantern light that might make an interesting comparison as well.

 

[Chicken Drumstick]

I had a new 4D Krypton back around 2007 and I remember being surprised at how bright it was.

I just grabbed a 4D Mag with the newer bi-pin xenon out of a drawer and I don't think there's a huge difference in brightness, other than that the beam is more pinpoint throwy, and has less orange in it. Basically a smaller, cooler hotspot. I may have to dig out a 4 cell krypton and compare them side to side to see if I'm remembering correctly.

I have a potted magnumstar xenon in a 6 volt lantern light that might make an interesting comparison as well.

Thanks. I guess a more focused beam would give the higher lux/cd readings, even if output isn't all that different.

For reference, on my light meter my Magcharger running the stock bulb and 7.2v does 21,500cd vs only 4000cd for a 6D Kypton running at 7.2v I don't know how lumens compare, I will have to try and test that.

 

[fivemega]

For reference, on my light meter my Magcharger running the stock bulb and 7.2v does 21,500cd vs only 4000cd for a 6D Kypton running at 7.2v

M*gCharger bulb is halogen 6 volt, 1.7Amp (10 Watt) and 6D Krypton bulb is 7.2V, 0.9Amp (6.5Watt) maximum.

M*gCharger bulb is not only halogen higher wattage but you also over drive it too.

 

[ampdude]

Yea, the Magcharger has always been much brighter than the 2 cell to 6 cell incans.

 

[Chicken Drumstick]

I've ordered up a new Xenon bulb and adaptor, so I'll try it out when it arrives and compare.

I think I need to redo the Throw test for the 6D kyrpton bulb as the batteries might have been a bit low. Also measuring throw with an incan bulb seems much harder than an LED as the beam and spot are not as clean and finding the brightest part is quite hard. The manual focus of the Mags compound this somewhat.

Thus far my figures are:

	Throw	Lumens
MagCharger	21,525cd / 293m	369
Kypton 6D	4419cd / 133m	123
Xenon 6D	TBC	TBC

Note all of the above are running at 7.2v

 

[Katherine Alicia]

M*gCharger bulb is not only halogen higher wattage but you also over drive it too.

I noticed the the other day just how well Halogens can take being overdriven too, I have a 2.5v halogen in my 2D mag and put a 21700 in there, it not only took it but I was amazed at how bright it was without seeming like it was going to pop any second, I only ran it for a couple of minutes and put the D cells back in, Nice to know that in an emegency it can be done though

 

[Chicken Drumstick]

Well that was rather a disappointment

I had ordered up a replacement Xenon MAG-NUM Star II bulb in 6D:

It very clearly states it is a retro fit for the krypton bulbs.

And I could find nothing to say about only to certain age/serial number Maglites.

Note the new retaining collar thread is different. With no bulb in the torch you can just get it to fit, but not with a bulb in place. The original collar fits and holds it fine. But this isn't the disappointment. That is yet to come

With the Xenon fitted, the Mag just doesn't focus, this is the best you can get, leaving a large hotspot and big donut hole.

Clearly this is not as advertised and is not a retro fit.


A real shame as the Xenon bulb makes way more lumens too.


Xenon on 7.2v (6 cell) = 230 lumens
Xenon on 8.4v (7 cell) = 307 lumens

vs

Krypton on 7.2v (6 cell) = 123 lumens
Krypton on 8.4v (7 cell) = 136 lumens


The poorly focused beam of the Xenon meant even on 8.4v I could only get 2167cd (93m). Under half the throw of the Krypton on only 7.2v

The Xenon certainly has potential, if I wound the head off until the very last thread:

It would focus and I got 17,083cd!!!

 

[Stress_Test]

Well that was rather a disappointment

I had ordered up a replacement Xenon MAG-NUM Star II bulb in 6D:
................
A real shame as the Xenon bulb makes way more lumens too.

Xenon on 7.2v (6 cell) = 230 lumens
Xenon on 8.4v (7 cell) = 307 lumens

vs

Krypton on 7.2v (6 cell) = 123 lumens
Krypton on 8.4v (7 cell) = 136 lumens
.........

230 lumens for the stock Maglite 6-cell bi-pin bulb? That sounds... a bit optimistic. A table I ran across on Amazon while browsing Mag stuff showed 178 lumens for the xenon 6D, but it didn't state if that was bi-pin or PR bulb.

If I remember some of the earliest CPF posts, I think the knockdown factor for out-the-front lumens on incans is higher than LEDs. Something like 70% maybe? So 178 bulb lumens would be about 125 OTF lumens.

Also, do you have a rebel LED Mag reflector you could try? I'd read somewhere that the smaller bi-pin bulb didn't play well with reflectors made for PR bulbs.

***********************
EDIT: Whoa, just checked the old thread where Mr.Gman did IS testing, and there is a 6D Mag bulb on 9 volts (I think 3 x cr123a). He shows 125 lumens, so I guess my memory on the knock-down factor is pretty close!

Link to IS Test Results Thread

 

[bykfixer]

Now the bulb holder does put up quite the fight pushing back against the adapter and bulb combo. It may take some force to get the plastic adapter seated all the way down.

A krypton 3D I converted

 

[Stress_Test]

+1 to that, bykfixer. I had better luck holding the light upside down, holding the collar stationary in my right hand, and turning the flashlight body with my left, to screw everything together.

 

[Stress_Test]

Well, I tried the Mag Rebel reflector with my 4D bi-pin Mag, and as my dad would say, a good idea but not a great idea.

The smaller opening of the reflector caught on the outer edge of the bulb collar.

I tightened the head down until it hit stiff resistance, which I guess the bulb tower was bottomed out, and the head didn't quite fully cover the o-ring.

Beamshots at approximate distances of 3 feet, and 6 feet. Irregularities in the spill beam, and a hole in the center. Now, with the appropriate tools you may be able to carefully mill out the opening a bit to allow focusing, but the better option is probably to either use a diffusing lens or a mid orange-peel reflector. :shrug:

I like the color of this bulb though (don't judge from these shots; the wall isn't white, and I had the auto balance set on the camera anyway).

 

[Katherine Alicia]

but the better option is probably to either use a diffusing lens or a mid orange-peel reflector. :shrug:

I agree, here`s mine with a MOP reflector (and AR glass), it should give you an idea of the outcome before you decide to buy anything:

and the outcome (wall about 4 foot away):

 

[Chicken Drumstick]

Now the bulb holder does put up quite the fight pushing back against the adapter and bulb combo. It may take some force to get the plastic adapter seated all the way down.


A krypton 3D I converted

Thanks.

The adaptor seemed to fit easily, just not the collar. Also I think there is a contact on the bottom of the adaptor, so if not seated it probably wouldn't work.

How is the beam on yours?

 

[Chicken Drumstick]

I agree, here`s mine with a MOP reflector (and AR glass), it should give you an idea of the outcome before you decide to buy anything:

and the outcome (wall about 4 foot away):

The bulb in yours is sitting a lot lower in the reflector, which is giving the good focus. On mine the bulb seems to sit very high (as per my pics above). The only way to get it to focus is to literally unscrew the head all the way.

Which is odd, as it will focus fine with the krypton bulb and the LED drop ins I have.

I wonder - have there been different internals or reflectors over the years?

This is a 3D, probably from 1990-1992'ish. It has the D prefix on the serial number.

I have a slightly newer 6D (1996'ish) but as far as I can see the reflector and bulb post are identical, so would give the same result. Although I haven't tried yet.

 

[Chicken Drumstick]

230 lumens for the stock Maglite 6-cell bi-pin bulb? That sounds... a bit optimistic.

The lumens are more relative than definative.

i.e. the Xenon is just under double the brightness of the Krypton.

Measurements made on a home lightbox using the Ceilingbounce App. All OTF.

I won't say it is anyway accurate, but I've had some pretty good alignment with some other lights on the setup. e.g.

300 LED Lumen XP-G2 Mag dropin = 244 lumen on my setup
200 LED lumen XP-G Mag dropin = 161 lumen
180 LED lumen XP-E Mag dropin = 123 lumen
Mini Mag Pro XP-G2 = 253 lumen
POP light XP-E 220 lumen = 222 lumen
EagleTac D25A Ti 405 lumen = 435 lumen
Noctigon KR1 1300 lumen = 1235 lumen
Astrolux FT03 4300 lumen = 4322 lumen
Lumintop Fw21 Pro 10,000 lumen = 9603 lumen
Olight S15 Baton 280 lumen (not sure if LED or ANSI) = 246 lumen

I know it isn't 100% accurate, but I think it is probably in the ball park.

 

[Katherine Alicia]

I`m using mine in an old 5D mag, there`s no D in the serial number either, just 8 digits and the metal Reflector is the sort sold by Kaidomain if that helps?

 

[bykfixer]

Thanks.

The adaptor seemed to fit easily, just not the collar. Also I think there is a contact on the bottom of the adaptor, so if not seated it probably wouldn't work.

How is the beam on yours?

Normal ugly incan beam with a hurricane on a map shaped hot spot. lol.
I actually prefer the beam from the krypton bulb over the bi-pin. The PR base xenon is great in old cop lights like Kel Lite or LA Scew but not as pleasant in a Maglite.

It's been a while but if I recall correct the point you feel like the adapter is all the way home is only like 3/4 of being all the way home. Once it's truely all the way home it's pretty well stuck and won't come out without using a dental pick or two. Like it makes contact with a spring but can actually seat farther down into the bulb holder.

The 3 cell bi-pin in a 3D

3 cell krypton in a 4C

Oh, and here is the adapter all the way inserted.

 

[Katherine Alicia]

I recall correct the point you feel like the adapter is all the way home is only like 3/4 of being all the way home. Once it's truely all the way home it's pretty well stuck and won't come out without using a dental pick or two.

This is my main objection to them not just selling spare bubs for these, if the bulb goes in the feild you can`t just change it no matter how many spares you have in the tail cap, they really need to sell just the spare bi-pin bulbs for these then it wouldn`t be such an issue to change one.