Laptop battery unsafe?

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OK a 1s3p 3.7V setup would use the PTC you mentioned. The other issues in my last post are still important though. Keep reading, asking, and Good Luck!

Well I figured out that when the computer is running full speed, it draws about 3.3 Amps through the battery pack. I don't know how that works out for each individual cell in this case though.

Why isn't soldering an option? If I removed the cells by snipping the flat metal bridges in place, I would have perfect solder leads. Still, not sure if connecting those tabs with pieces of wire is okay, or if I would need special braided connections. What are those little strips made out of anyway..just thin aluminum? http://innov8tivedesigns.com/rcgroups/PackBuild06.JPG

For the charging, I'd have to invest in a hobby charger suitable for these cells. Even then, I'm not totally sure about whether the term balancing applies to cells in parallel or series. :popcorn:
 
Would it be unsafe to use this laptop battery for lighting applications? I opened it up, and each cell is 3.7V. Three are wired in parallel with 6 more in series for 11.1V total. The leads just go right onto the board which would be very easy to solder.

I just don't want it to blow up or break something. Maybe someone has done this before.
Try looking up how to replace the cells on Google. There are several tutorials out there that go into great detail about how the batteries are set up and used.
Most are in series /parallel and different voltages are picked off at different points.
 
Well I figured out that when the computer is running full speed, it draws about 3.3 Amps through the battery pack. I don't know how that works out for each individual cell in this case though.

Why isn't soldering an option? If I removed the cells by snipping the flat metal bridges in place, I would have perfect solder leads. Still, not sure if connecting those tabs with pieces of wire is okay, or if I would need special braided connections. What are those little strips made out of anyway..just thin aluminum? http://innov8tivedesigns.com/rcgroups/PackBuild06.JPG

For the charging, I'd have to invest in a hobby charger suitable for these cells. Even then, I'm not totally sure about whether the term balancing applies to cells in parallel or series. :popcorn:

If you were able to preserve the metal strips, then they could be used for soldering. Most battery pack strips are made out of nickel, or nickel plating. Balance charging is for greater than 1s setups. So if you had a 1s3p setup the parallel connection balances the 3 cells with each other.
 
You have a point. I'll make sure to stress the "not for newbies, don't attempt if not capable of handling a lithium fire" part of the whole deal in the future.

I am curious to know exactly what Fallingwater has done in order to become capable of handling a lithium fire.
 
Hello folks!

I'm brand new here and my first post, I thought I'd post in here after I acquired an older Compaq laptop battery. I managed to secure 9 different 18650 cells that I plan to use in my coming MTE M3-2I flashlight. I got the laptop battery free so can't beat free!

But however after reading here about voltages, are these cells any good anymore? Can they be "revived" like some old Ni-Cd can be?

Here are the voltages as I found them out of the laptop battery.

1. 2.64v
2. 0.94v
3. 0.77v
4. 1.48v
5. 1.48v
6. 0.94v
7. 1.95v
8. 1.95v
9. 0.78v

My 18650 charger is coming soon but do you think I'll have any success at resurrected and using these cells?

Edit: These cells say on them: MOLI FSPE.70033.171044 / ICR-18650F Made in Canada. Last ninth cell say: SF US18650VT

Thanks and looking to become a dedicated forum member.
 
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Mxelement, welcome to CPF! Those cells sound pretty trashed. It is also pretty weird that 8 of the 9 cells are moli type and the 9th is not.
 
Hello folks!

I'm brand new here and my first post, I thought I'd post in here after I acquired an older Compaq laptop battery. I managed to secure 9 different 18650 cells that I plan to use in my coming MTE M3-2I flashlight. I got the laptop battery free so can't beat free!

But however after reading here about voltages, are these cells any good anymore? Can they be "revived" like some old Ni-Cd can be?

Here are the voltages as I found them out of the laptop battery.

1. 2.64v
2. 0.94v
3. 0.77v
4. 1.48v
5. 1.48v
6. 0.94v
7. 1.95v
8. 1.95v
9. 0.78v

My 18650 charger is coming soon but do you think I'll have any success at resurrected and using these cells?

Edit: These cells say on them: MOLI FSPE.70033.171044 / ICR-18650F Made in Canada. Last ninth cell say: SF US18650VT

Thanks and looking to become a dedicated forum member.
I just opened a laptop battery that died in less than a year.
Inside was 8 Sanyo UR18650FM 2600mAh cells, they were paired and one pair was almost completely dead reading 0.05V , the other 6 cells were ~4.02V.
Now those dead cells have been resting for a few days and they are both 0.45V.
No need to say I won't be using those two.

The other 6 I can use in a single cell flashlight that has built in overdisharge protection at 2.8V.
I have tested that it works and I know the runtimes too so I don't even run the cells below 3.2V.
My charger has a built in overcharge protection, I use a safety timer and I don't leave the charger unattended.

You have 9 cells, only one is close to "safe" voltage which is 2.75V.
It might be useable, but who knows it might turn your flaslight in to a pipebomb, you like your fingers?
 
Mxelement, welcome to CPF! Those cells sound pretty trashed. It is also pretty weird that 8 of the 9 cells are moli type and the 9th is not.

I didn't make it clear, all 8 compaq cells were MOLI, but the 9th was from a Black and Decker screwdriver, the other type.
 
Hello Mxelement,

Welcome to CPF.

Li-Ion chemistry dies by internal oxidation. Cycling the cells through charge/discharge cycles does not revive them. When they are dead, recycle them.

This oxidation is most active when the cell is fully charged (or over charged), or fully discharged (or over discharged). The damage is time related. The more time spent in prime oxidation conditions, the more damage is done to the cell.

It looks like all of your cells are crap. However, if the cell that is reading 2.64 volts has only been at that low a voltage for a short period of time (hours), it may charge up and be of some use. You can try charging it up, but care must be taken during the charge in case something goes wrong. After the charge, let the cell sit overnight and measure the voltage again. If it is above 4.0 volts, you can get some use from it, safely.

When harvesting cells from laptop battery packs, you generally find that a few cells are very low in voltage, and the others are close to 4.0 volts. The good cells are the ones that are at a higher voltage. Cells that are below 3.0 volts usually require a very soft charge initially, but can be charged normally once the cell voltage exceeds 3 volts. Most low end chargers don't allow for this so it is possible to add to the damage done due to the over discharge.

You would be better off recycling that pack and picking up another dead battery pack that has some cells closer to 4.0 volts.

Tom
 
Thanks SilverFox. I won't take a chance at them as you guys have been making me feel uneasy about them possibly blowing up. I figure I must have gotten a really old battery, thus the really low voltage.

I'll keep the 2.64v cell and see if I can get any use out of them.

Hello Mxelement,

Welcome to CPF.

Li-Ion chemistry dies by internal oxidation. Cycling the cells through charge/discharge cycles does not revive them. When they are dead, recycle them.

This oxidation is most active when the cell is fully charged (or over charged), or fully discharged (or over discharged). The damage is time related. The more time spent in prime oxidation conditions, the more damage is done to the cell.

It looks like all of your cells are crap. However, if the cell that is reading 2.64 volts has only been at that low a voltage for a short period of time (hours), it may charge up and be of some use. You can try charging it up, but care must be taken during the charge in case something goes wrong. After the charge, let the cell sit overnight and measure the voltage again. If it is above 4.0 volts, you can get some use from it, safely.

When harvesting cells from laptop battery packs, you generally find that a few cells are very low in voltage, and the others are close to 4.0 volts. The good cells are the ones that are at a higher voltage. Cells that are below 3.0 volts usually require a very soft charge initially, but can be charged normally once the cell voltage exceeds 3 volts. Most low end chargers don't allow for this so it is possible to add to the damage done due to the over discharge.

You would be better off recycling that pack and picking up another dead battery pack that has some cells closer to 4.0 volts.

Tom
 
Hello folks!

I'm brand new here and my first post, I thought I'd post in here after I acquired an older Compaq laptop battery. I managed to secure 9 different 18650 cells that I plan to use in my coming MTE M3-2I flashlight. I got the laptop battery free so can't beat free!

But however after reading here about voltages, are these cells any good anymore? Can they be "revived" like some old Ni-Cd can be?

I love free as well. I've come into possession of several laptop batteries and enjoy recycling the batteries out of them for future projects. The ones that aren't salvageable go into the dead battery recycle bin. Just FYI, the batteries I come into contact with haven't been reading that low of a voltage. I would certainly give them a shot with charging, but only with a programmable charger. I use a MRC smartbrain charger and set my current charge relatively low. If you're purchasing a charger and you can't regulate the charge current, I'd be very careful.

Of course you know all those batteries are going to be unprotected after you disassembled the pack and charge them individually. So certainly read up on unprotected cells and the dangers of charging them.

Love the forum guys and all the regular posters here. I've been on here for quite sometime, but don't speak up, I just read and read and read. :)
 
I got about 7 laptop battery packs, and tore them apart. Here are the notes.

1. They are much harder to open than I thought. I required the full set of tools such as hammer, screwdriver, dremmel tool even. The first pack I opened, I accidentally drove the screwdriver into the side of a 18650 cell and this smell started coming out of it, a drop of something liquid was coming out, and it was getting a bit warm. So I knew I had a thermal runaway reaction going on, expected the worst, I threw it in the glass jar I had handy and took it outside. The other times I was more careful.

Should wear gloves as the sharp tabs soldered to cells are extremely sharp, I cut myself twice with them, while prying the plastic cases open. The plastic casing for the packs is very sharp too. One or two cell packs is not bad, but trying to open 7-8 at a time, well took me over an hour.

I planned to rebuild my laptop cell pack with Panasonic 2900 mAh cells but now I say, no way I can put it back together or even safely take one apart. Just much safer and easier to buy a new one.

2. I had about 1/3 that were clearly good, at 3.7V, discharged but not catastrophically. About 1/3 were completely dead, as in 0.01V and about 1/3 were questionable, that I will try to revive, something like 2.5V. No idea how long they stayed in that condition but I will assume the worst and that they probably won't come back, but I have to see for myself. At least as a scientific experiment, to see how a bad cells acts when charged. And how quickly it loses charge.

I got some Panasonic, Sony, LG and a few with no meaningful marks on them at all, other than some string of tiny numbers. I looked them up, the name brands were between 2400 - 2500 mAh, so not too bad.

I used to use AW's protected cells but now will keep them only for the 2x18650 configuration. I usually use 1x18650 these days, with Malkoff M60L and the neat thing is, you can see, visually, when the cell is discharged. I am pretty familiar with the lumens at regulation, above 3.7V and can instantly tell when it hits 3.5V and below. The lite is just noticeably dim.

I used Panasonic 2900 mAh cells, unprotected, for months, with excellent results, never overdischarging them.

To sum it up, in 1-cell lites can you unprotected 18650 cells if you pay attention to lumens.
2x18650 configurations with regulated modules like Malkoff M60 make this impossible. As the lite will still stay in regulation even when the cells are deeply discharged, say down to 2.5V each. The lumens will not be affected much in this case. So you discharge your cells way below safe limits without knowing it.

Of course maybe unregulated multi-cell lites can also use unprotected cells. I tried the P90 incan drop-in module with 2x18650 of these newly gotten cells and it got really dim when they discharged.

batteries_18650.jpg


I use Pila IBC charger, but kind of want a 4-bay charger.

Some, I noticed, have gotten extremely hot to the touch while charging. They were at about 4.1V. Not sure what it means. Probably that they are not good. Or internal resistance?

I took the cells I charged, looked at them after 24 hours and most held charge. A few declined to 4.1V. One discharged to 1.5V, so it was clearly not good. I plan to check the voltage a week later.
 
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Question, where do you people recycle them?

I have a lot of these dead 18650's plus NiMH cells that need to be recycled.
 
1. They are much harder to open than I thought. I required the full set of tools such as hammer, screwdriver to be on, dremmel tool even. The first pack I opened, I accidentally drove the screwdriver into the side of a 18650 cell and this smell started coming out of it, something liquid was coming out, and it was getting a bit warm. So I knew I had a thermal runaway reaction going on, expected the worst, I threw it in the glass jar I had handy and took it outside. The other times I was more careful.

Should wear gloves as the sharp tabs soldered to cells are extremely sharp, I cut myself twice with them, while prying the plastic cases open.
Now thats not good, puncturing the outer shell of the Li-ion usually means flames.
I have not needed anything else than a carpet knife to open a laptop battery, it takes about ½ hour or so.
Knowing that what might happen if I puncture even one of the cells makes me very cautious...
 
Well, having seen what happens to a damaged 123 cell, when it gets hit with something hard as a scientific experiment, I was careful but it was an accident, I think the tip went into it maybe 1/2mm, not very deep at all, just barely broke the surface. I did make safety precautions and removed it off the premises and it seems to be stable.

And it was apparently a good cell I lost. Let's just call it a learning experience. Much better than driving a screwdriver into your hand. Use locking pliers, or a vice, and a gloves. Dremmel tool makes this much faster but the smoke from hot plastic is obnoxious.
 
I use Pila IBC charger, but kind of want a 4-bay charger.

Some, I noticed, have gotten extremely hot to the touch while charging. They were at about 4.1V. Not sure what it means. Probably that they are not good. Or internal resistance?

I took the cells I charged, looked at them after 24 hours and most held charge. A few declined to 4.1V. One discharged to 1.5V, so it was clearly not good. I plan to check the voltage a week later.

Wow! That is quite the collection and great tips I will surely use!

Can you tell me when charging your unprotected cells (from laptops) on the Pila Charger, does it tell you once it is completed charging? Meaning does the charger go Green?
 
I just got the Pila IBC Charger and I'm curious to why the charger will terminate and turn on the green LED once the voltage of the cell reaches 3.70V.

I already tried two different batteries and my multimeter says the charger is finishing charging the cell once it reaches 3.70v. I thought these batteries were supposed to terminate at ~4.1V??

Any ideas?
 
Hello Mxelement,

The Pila charger charges to 4.2 volts. If you pull your cells off of the charger and they register 3.7 volts, they are crap and should be recycled.

Tom
 
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