Lens types and respective durabilities - Paintball light

[vertigo_2_20]

I am looking for a tactical flashlight that can be mounted to a gun either through the use of a picatinny mount or a scope ring or whatever else will work and will look and function nicely. The main use for it will be playing paintball, both at night and possibly in dark spots where there's heavy foliage cover. This brings me to the main point of the thread: lens types and durabilities (I use the term lens loosely, as many lights don't actually have a functional lens, but rather a clear "bulb protective cover"). I want a light that can take direct hits from paintballs without shattering/cracking.

There are many different types, including plastic, glass, crystal, polycarbonate, pyrex, lexan, and any others I may have missed, as well as different constructions within each category. From what I can gather, it seems plastic is the cheapest, being easily scratched and broken, glass is good for clarity/light transmission, but can break somewhat easily, and pyrex is simply a highly heat-resistant glass, and therefore still just as easily breakable. As far as crystal, I have seen both that it's tough and difficult to break, and that it's relatively easy to break, but it also seems maybe there are different types that widely vary as far as toughness. The only lenses I have seen advertised as "shatter-proof" and "unbreakable" are the polycarbonate and lexan ones, which significantly reduces my options for suitable lights, not to mention the use of the term shatter-proof leads me to think maybe they're referring to the lens not shattering if the light is dropped, which would be a different impact than taking a direct hit.

So my questions are, how do the various materials rate with one another as far as toughness, clarity, scratch-resistance, et cetera, and am I looking too much into this? That is, am I correct in seeking a stronger lens for my use, or will any lens withstand the impact of a paintball travelling several hundred feet per second? I am inclined to think they won't, because I have read reviews of people's optics on their guns breaking when taking a hit, and those are usually made of glass.

Finally, does anyone have any suggestions for good lights that can take the abuse? I'm looking for one with a button on the back, water-resistant at least, though water-proof is better, and either with a Cree/Seoul LED standard or the ability to add one (for example, I'm considering the G2 with the drop-in adapter). I would like to be able to use rechargeable 3v 123a batteries, either one or two, although I'm not completely against using AA's, if the light is good. I would also like one that I can get an optional remote pressure switch for, but that's not a necessity. Multiple light modes (hi/med/lo, or even just hi/lo) are also a big plus. I like the Fenix lights, and they look like a good bet, but with them I'm mostly concerned about the lenses. And of course, the budget: I'm looking at under $100 (less is better, of course).

Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.

 

[defusion]

for that price i'd go with the G2.
don't know about it's lens though. whats the kinetic energy those paintballs have at say 20ft?
i know lexan is used for ballistic goggles and such, and thats what the G2 uses.
so it will probably stop a paintball, but you'd need to either know more specifics, or just try it out!

as for mounting it, there are some universal flashlight mounts for use on picatinny rails, which should always work, but i haven't tried this. there's also plenty choice in aftermarket LED drop-ins, and pressure switches.

 

[vertigo_2_20]

Assuming a 2.84g paintball fired at 300fps, at muzzle break the kinetic energy would be ~11.873J, and the force would be ~259.7 Newtons (I believe this is correct, though it's been a while since I've had physics and I'm in somewhat of a hurry right now. Also, this is assuming it takes a full second for the paintball to lose all of its momentum after colliding).

 

[spoonrobot]

You could always get a clear Butler Creek Scope cover for your light. That's what I did in the same situation. Gives you an extra window and a airspace between the main window and the outside world with minimal light loss.

 

[vertigo_2_20]

As for the G2, the reasons I have not jumped on it are 1) because while the cost of the light itself is pretty low, the total cost after adding the LED drop-in to it is a good bit higher, not to mention it would require me to do some modding to get it to fit in the original head casing (AFAIK the lens on the drop-in is not lexan or polycarbonate), unless i can put the original lens in the adapter, so I'm hoping I can get away with buying a factory LED light for cheaper, and 2) the accessories for the G2 (remote switch, filters) are ridiculously expensive.

 

[vertigo_2_20]

You could always get a clear Butler Creek Scope cover for your light. That's what I did in the same situation. Gives you an extra window and a airspace between the main window and the outside world with minimal light loss.

That's a very good idea, which is actually what I'll be doing for my red dot scope, but there are two possible issues with that. First, what material are those made of? Will they hold up any better, or will they be the same or even worse? If I can get an "unbreakable" lens flashlight, it would be better than having a more susceptible (assuming that is the case) cover on it that I have to replace every time it takes a hit. Second, I plan on getting a red filter cover, and the scope cover might interfere with that.

Above all else, it ultimately comes down to the desire for knowledge I suppose. I could easily just get the G2, install the LED drop-in, do any necessary jerry-rigging, and call it a day. But that would do nothing for my knowledge of the subject. Even if that's what I end up doing, I'd still like to know. :thinking:

 

[mchlwise]

I frequently play paintball.

I'd be much more worried about giving away your position with your light than your light being broken. :green: My best advice is let your eyes night adapt, and don't use a light.

If you insist on using a light... get a Fenix. They'll take it.

 

[Display_Name]

I agree about it giving away your position. You will be spotted way before you spot someone else. But it is pretty cool and could still be useful. I wouldn't worry about the remote if you are on a budget.

 

[Display_Name]

Heres some remote switches from ebay.
http://search.ebay.com/search/searc...action=compare&copagenum=1&coentrypage=search

 

[vertigo_2_20]

Well, I probably wouldn't get the remote switch right away, I'd try using the light without it and see how I like it, and determine then if it's something I'd want, so it would be a later purchase. Although, reviews I've read on some (admittedly cheaper ones) suggest that a common problem with them is they get really hot. Does anyone know if that's an issue with all of them, or just the off-brand ones? And speaking of heat, I also read the G2 with the drop-in LED adapter will get really hot. Does anyone have experience with or knowledge of this?

Anyways, in response to it giving away your position, I'm well aware of that, and that's why I wouldn't run around with it on, basically saying "Look at me." With a red lens, I would be much less visible, yet I could turn it on for a couple seconds here and there to get a good look at my surroundings or the trail to see where I'm going or what's around me, and it wouldn't drastically affect my night vision. It would also be useful to shine on my opponent to both temporarily "stun" him as well as to assist in quickly targeting and eliminating him. As well as the ability to distract him while a teammate moves on him from the other direction. Not to mention it's better to be equipped properly and have the light if I need it than to not have it and be in a situation where I'm saying to myself "Man I wish I'd bought a light."

 

[defusion]

why do you think red light doesnt affect you night vision as much?
well, for that very same reason, it's not a very effective stun light!
your eyes are less sensitive to it.

and the lexan from a G2 will probably stop a paintball, but i would like to ask you how thick are the lenses of the goggles you use for paintball?
i recommend comparing that to the G2, if it's the same or higher, it will stop a paintball. If it's less thick, it might not, but trust me, lexan is pretty strong stuff. they make bulletproof windows out of it! but the problem is that for bulletproof windows, some penetration/shattering is acceptable, as long as it will still stop a few other rounds. In your case, you just don't want to have to replace the lens.

but in any case, lexan is the stuff you want, it's the most shatterproof of all, and is in fact what your safety goggles are required to be made from because of that. if lexan doesn't stop it, nothing (transparent) will.

 

[vertigo_2_20]

When using it as a "stun light," I would take the red filter off for that purpose: Red for seeing my way while remaining less detectable and maintaining my night vision, white for distracting/stunning the opponent.

I have no doubt the G2's lens could and would hold up well, because it is lexan. My question is, since the G2 is a somewhat more expensive route, and would quite possibly require modding, if I can get away with a cheaper flashlight that doesn't require any modding, that functions just as well, or better than the G2, only difference being it has a different lens type, could I? For example, I could get a Fenix for less than the G2 + LED adapter, but would the Fenix take a direct hit.

As for the goggle lens, how would I compare it to the thickness when a) I don't know the thickness of the lenses on any of the flashlights, and b) I don't know what material is used for the goggles. But assuming it is made from polycarbonate or lexan (one site I read all must be made from lexan, but another site said some are made from polycarbonate), then comparing that to the lenses on most flashlights, which are made of plastic and glass, would be comparing apples to oranges. Also, the lens on the goggles would be inherently weaker with the same material and same thickness, because there is more surface area.

Has anybody had any personal experience with their flashlights taking a direct impact to the lens that would be of similar force as a paintball, and if so, what material is the lens made of and how did it handle it?

 

[defusion]

When using it as a "stun light," I would take the red filter off for that purpose: Red for seeing my way while remaining less detectable and maintaining my night vision, white for distracting/stunning the opponent.

I have no doubt the G2's lens could and would hold up well, because it is lexan. My question is, since the G2 is a somewhat more expensive route, and would quite possibly require modding, if I can get away with a cheaper flashlight that doesn't require any modding, that functions just as well, or better than the G2, only difference being it has a different lens type, could I? For example, I could get a Fenix for less than the G2 + LED adapter, but would the Fenix take a direct hit.

As for the goggle lens, how would I compare it to the thickness when a) I don't know the thickness of the lenses on any of the flashlights, and b) I don't know what material is used for the goggles. But assuming it is made from polycarbonate or lexan (one site I read all must be made from lexan, but another site said some are made from polycarbonate), then comparing that to the lenses on most flashlights, which are made of plastic and glass, would be comparing apples to oranges. Also, the lens on the goggles would be inherently weaker with the same material and same thickness, because there is more surface area.

Has anybody had any personal experience with their flashlights taking a direct impact to the lens that would be of similar force as a paintball, and if so, what material is the lens made of and how did it handle it?

lexan is just the commercial name for polycarbonate.
And if choosing either the G2+led or just a fenix would be your basic options, i would always go for the G2. Fenix uses a glass lens, and will almost certainly shatter.

your goggles are made out of lexan (polycarbonate), as required.

in any case, go for something with a lexan lens.
If i had a spare lens, i would take my airgun, and shoot my g2 lens at about 100ft, which is the distance required to get the power down to about 12joule (same as a close range paintball, according to someone that posted above). but i don't, so i can't say anything for sure.

 

[carrot]

I have shot at Lexan at very close range with my CO2 airgun. (Possibly a stupid idea, do not try this at home) Only a very slight dent. Lexan will be fine. The thicker stuff stops bullets.

I know it is expensive but it sounds like you already put a lot of money into your paintball gear -- what's a little more? Pick up a G2, a 3.7v Lumensfactory D26, a couple Li-ion 17670's and a DSD charger, and a Bushwacker flip-up red beam filter.

You can get the beam filter from the manufacturer QuakeInc, the G2 for an excellent price from OpticsHQ (click greenLED's CPF Specials in my sig for details on how to get the special pricing, and the batteries from Fenix-Store.com.

I am sure you will be very happy with this setup and you won't need to spend extra money on batteries after the initial investment.

 

[vertigo_2_20]

lexan is just the commercial name for polycarbonate.
And if choosing either the G2+led or just a fenix would be your basic options, i would always go for the G2. Fenix uses a glass lens, and will almost certainly shatter.

Thanks. This is very useful information indeed. Are you sure the G2's lens is Lexan, though? Amazon says so, but Flashlightreviews says it's "clear plastic" (granted, Lexan is clear plastic, but I would think they would specify Lexan if that were the case), another site said it was Pyrex, and Surefire's own site doesn't specify.

Assuming it is Lexan, does it have a scratch-resistant coating? Also, I have read the drop-in LED adapter can get very, very hot. Can the Lexan stand up to those temperatures?

Finally, does anyone sell a Lexan/poly lens for the Fenix lights?

 

[vertigo_2_20]

Thanks for all the info Carrot. I actually found the G2 at ombexpress for a couple dollars cheaper, but this site definitely gives a lot more information as far as accessories. I am somewhat concerned, however, that Surefire felt it necessary to make an opaque cover to protect the lens from impact, suggesting that the stock lens maybe doesn't do a great job at this. I can only guess, and hope, that this cover is meant for other Surefire lights without Lexan lenses, and is just shown under the accessories for the G2. I am going to look at the other stuff you suggested right now.

 

[carrot]

Last I checked, OpticsHQ offers the G2 for about $27 to CPFers. :shrug:

The opaque cover is to protect the lens from scratches (and the 6P's Pyrex lens from damage) and also to prevent the light from giving away one's position by being accidentally activated (but the lock-out tailcap on the G2 can prevent this). In any case if you can manage to somehow destroy your G2 or parts of it you should contact Surefire and see if they are willing to replace it. They are very generous with their lifetime warranty, as well they should be at their premium prices.

The Lexan has no scratch resistant coating -- this is usually some kind of thin glass coating over a polycarbonate surface from my understanding. There are no Lexan replacement lenses for the Fenix. If you melt the Lexan lens Surefire will replace it gratis. This happens occasionally with the P61 bulb when it is in your pocket or another enclosed space that would excessively trap heat.

While I am a big fan of Fenix I think the Surefire would fare much better in this situation, having a momentary twisty switch and Lexan lens. If I had a paintball gun I would try firing at one of my Fenixes but I don't, and BB's have a significantly smaller point of impact so I wouldn't risk testing my airgun. If you do decide to go the Fenix route I recommend the L2D-CE, though there are very few mounts for flashlights its diameter. You'll probably have to use the screwed tube clamps you can get in hardware stores to mount it.

 

[vertigo_2_20]

From my understanding of the instructions, I place an order at the price listed on the site ($36), then email them my CPF name to receive a 5% discount, bringing the price to $34.20, which is actually .20 more than the other site. More than likely I'll end up ordering it from somewhere other than those two, in order to group it in with another order for reduced shipping, which will be cheaper even if the light itself is a few dollars more. Unless I'm missing something in the discount process through OpticsHQ. But I think I will go with the G2, the Lighthound Cree bulb, some 2600mAh batteries like the ones you suggested, and either the filter you recommended (a great catch, nice and cheap) or I might spend the little extra and get the Surefire one, which not only would likely fit better, but I think might be built tougher. Any thoughts on this? Ideally, I would really like one that has a red filter as well as a black, solid cover, so I could completely close it off to prevent giving away my position from glare off the lens.

 

[carrot]

I don't know how OpticsHQ does the discount now. I would try calling. They have been told to take the discount off their site but they still want to offer CPFers the best possible price, so over the phone you should be able to get the discount? They are very good to deal with. I bought my M3T and E1L from them.

I looked at the Surefire red filter and it looks like it is made of Pyrex, something I figured you wanted to avoid? The green reflection you see on the red-filter in the photograph is an anti-reflective coating, signifying Pyrex. I would try a light dusting of dirt on the lens to prevent glare before springing for the extra cover.

 

[vertigo_2_20]

If that's the case, then I guess it's no good. I can't find any information on the material used, so I'll just have to assume it is Pyrex and look elsewhere. As for using dirt, I'd be concerned that it would scratch the lens. I'll keep it in mind, but I think in the meantime I'll look around for other filters that maybe have a cap built in.

You guys have all been very helpful, and I appreciate the time you've taken to answer my questions. I think at this point it's up to me to complete my research and shop around, however, if anyone has any more suggestions or recommendations, I'd still love to hear them.