Lithium-ion design flawed, says Japan research institute
- Thread starter Paul_in_Maryland
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VidPro
Flashlight Enthusiast
whats that another press releace? or the prepress hysteria leadup to the new improved press releace for the new improved battery that comes in a week or so?
it dont make a lot of sence to me, Vrses ,what has already been said.
they say that li-poly which has the "solid polymer" was basically reformulated to be nothing more than a bagged li-ion vrses a canned li-ion. and that was done because the solid polymer wasnt as good when it comes to Power , power being the point of the battery. probably had something to do with operating temps and other stuff too.
so now these guys say they should be in a solid polymer, and now i dont even know if li-poly even is still in a solid polymer?
if solid polymer is the "answer" AND li-poly actually uses it now, then there would be little loss, because the li-poly or bagged li-ion cells have a relative energy weight density, even if you toss a can around them. but . since when are they "more safe"?
is Mr SureWould just trying to write another interesting story?
it dont make a lot of sence to me, Vrses ,what has already been said.
they say that li-poly which has the "solid polymer" was basically reformulated to be nothing more than a bagged li-ion vrses a canned li-ion. and that was done because the solid polymer wasnt as good when it comes to Power , power being the point of the battery. probably had something to do with operating temps and other stuff too.
so now these guys say they should be in a solid polymer, and now i dont even know if li-poly even is still in a solid polymer?
if solid polymer is the "answer" AND li-poly actually uses it now, then there would be little loss, because the li-poly or bagged li-ion cells have a relative energy weight density, even if you toss a can around them. but . since when are they "more safe"?
is Mr SureWould just trying to write another interesting story?
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LED61
Flashlight Enthusiast
WOW!! thanks for the heads up!!! Now they tell us.
Seriously Paul, thanks for the link, but don´t we all know all this already ? it´s ancient history. When there was nothing else available, they could have told us then, but didn´t--why ?
Personally I´ll continue to buy and use quality protected Li ion from WE or Pila, I´m sure you and others will too.
Of course, this is just my comment thanks again!
Seriously Paul, thanks for the link, but don´t we all know all this already ? it´s ancient history. When there was nothing else available, they could have told us then, but didn´t--why ?
Personally I´ll continue to buy and use quality protected Li ion from WE or Pila, I´m sure you and others will too.
Of course, this is just my comment thanks again!
Fallingwater
Flashlight Enthusiast
They are delicate and blow up if you overcharge them seriously, and LiPos have been known to catch fire if you look at them wrong.
And they say the design is "flawed"? No poop!
I guess the author never heard of the LiFe chemistry, though.
And they say the design is "flawed"? No poop!
I guess the author never heard of the LiFe chemistry, though.
NA8
Flashlight Enthusiast
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- Jun 4, 2007
- Messages
- 1,565
"...there is a fundamental flaw with the way lithium-ion batteries are currently designed and if the companies genuinely care about safety, they need to completely change their production methods. A lithium-ion battery is quite a dangerous little box of energy," Professor Wakihara said.
The academics' concerns emerged after a series of safety problems at the world's three biggest battery manufacturers – Sony, Sanyo and, most recently, Matsushita (Panasonic), which has recalled 46 million mobile phone batteries made for Nokia after a handful of them burst into flames.
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/technology/article2295743.ece
+1 No poop.
Compare the specs on the L2D and the P3D. I can live with AA, esp NiMH.
The academics' concerns emerged after a series of safety problems at the world's three biggest battery manufacturers – Sony, Sanyo and, most recently, Matsushita (Panasonic), which has recalled 46 million mobile phone batteries made for Nokia after a handful of them burst into flames.
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/technology/article2295743.ece
+1 No poop.
Compare the specs on the L2D and the P3D. I can live with AA, esp NiMH.
VidPro
Flashlight Enthusiast
so i guess getting the Tri-Lithium chloride crystal, with tritium isotope and sodium anode battery is out 
mdocod
Flashaholic
li-ion is relatively *new* to our world... Look at how many years it took to make gas tanks in cars reasonable safe in accidents...
Almost everything put to market, is initially flawed, with plenty of room for improvement.. It is however, unfortunate, that in order to use li-ion cells, we have to be SO INCREDIBLY informed, and so meticulous about cell care.... I'm excited to see what new technology brings to the lithium chemistry cell.
Hoping for smarter cheaper chargers, and smarter cells with safe higher current deliver...
*cross fingers*
Thanks for the heads up Paul!
Almost everything put to market, is initially flawed, with plenty of room for improvement.. It is however, unfortunate, that in order to use li-ion cells, we have to be SO INCREDIBLY informed, and so meticulous about cell care.... I'm excited to see what new technology brings to the lithium chemistry cell.
Hoping for smarter cheaper chargers, and smarter cells with safe higher current deliver...
*cross fingers*
Thanks for the heads up Paul!
Having used Emoli and A123 cells for a few months, it sure seems they have the best solution (including high current) now. Just needs more sizes....which will hopefully come from AW and his cohorts who understand what sizes are needed for our niche market.
Thanks for the link, Paul. Only thing strange in the article was saying "thousands of Sony batteries have already been recalled over safety fears" when in reality it is millions.
Thanks for the link, Paul. Only thing strange in the article was saying "thousands of Sony batteries have already been recalled over safety fears" when in reality it is millions.
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Fallingwater
Flashlight Enthusiast
Most likely LiFe (aka LiFePO4) cells. A123 and Emoli cells use this chemistry, and it appears they are much safer than any other lithium design.
A RCGroups member has tested a bunch of A123s and found they survive unscathed situations that would be disastrous for LiIon and LiPo, including rough treatment, overdriving and overcharging (overdischarging still kills them, but not quite as fast).
Now they just need to work on energy density (other sizes are already here, look on kaidomain).
Nobody will use LiIon/LiPo cells once LiFe reaches their energy density.
Stan671
Enlightened
Valance Technology (www.valence.com) has been making totally safe Li-Phosphare batteries for the Segway PT for several years. The chemistry in the Saphion line of rechargeable Li-Ion batteries is NOT subject to the thermal runaway that other Li-Ion batteries tend to do.
For a very dramatic illustration of this, check out their safety video: http://www.valence.com/technology/safety_video.html
For some reason, the world is not beating a path to their door - and I cannot figure out why.
For a very dramatic illustration of this, check out their safety video: http://www.valence.com/technology/safety_video.html
For some reason, the world is not beating a path to their door - and I cannot figure out why.
VidPro
Flashlight Enthusiast
Because with this little stuff, i want CAPACITY, and reduced size, even at the slight risk of danger.
i use small Canistar propane/butane when hiking, it might be more risky than white gass, and more violitle and more energy per oz. but i make every attempt to not be the fool who takes risks by making errors that would cause an event.
i could cook over a can of sterno, i just dont want to. if i was hauling my flashlight in a transport device, lead acid might be sufficient, as it is for lots of transport devices. but when hand held, wandering about without a hydro plant, i want capacity in a small size, a tritium reactor in a glass case will work, if you treat it nice.
blow me up, just give me power:wave:
i use small Canistar propane/butane when hiking, it might be more risky than white gass, and more violitle and more energy per oz. but i make every attempt to not be the fool who takes risks by making errors that would cause an event.
i could cook over a can of sterno, i just dont want to. if i was hauling my flashlight in a transport device, lead acid might be sufficient, as it is for lots of transport devices. but when hand held, wandering about without a hydro plant, i want capacity in a small size, a tritium reactor in a glass case will work, if you treat it nice.
blow me up, just give me power:wave:
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Paul_in_Maryland
Flashlight Enthusiast
I know, but I felt that the article would make a lively point for discussion. Writing that Li-ions can be dangerous is like the facetious headline in The Onion: "Factual Error Found on the Internet."
One company has set out to make a new breed of safe lithium-ion cells: Boston Power. And check out this video, guys; the company's Swedish-born president is a real cutie. :naughty
Fallingwater
Flashlight Enthusiast
I'm guessing price and size.
The world needs cheap batteries in very large amounts and of highly portable format. Capacity might have a role too. I've no idea what the energy density for lithium phosphate is (how do you shorten that? Li-Pho?), but if it's lower than LiIon that would explain it.
Besides, the industry seems to have caught on to the LiFe chemistry, and that's probably what we'll get in the near future.
