Lithium Ion in an AA body?

[chiphead]

I'm looking for a replacement of Lithium and Alkalines cells, there must be a Lithium Ion cell with the same fit some where! I'm running into rechargeables that won't take a charge and short rumtime alkalines. There must be something better! I've been using 18650 cells in place of xx123 without a problem. Am I just chasing my tail?

chiphead

 

[donn_]

They exist...the 14500 is AA size.

 

[Mr Happy]

I'm looking for a replacement of Lithium and Alkalines cells, there must be a Lithium Ion cell with the same fit some where! I'm running into rechargeables that won't take a charge and short rumtime alkalines. There must be something better! I've been using 18650 cells in place of xx123 without a problem. Am I just chasing my tail?

Could you translate that into English?

If you have rechargeables that won't take a charge, try some new rechargeables. Eneloops are good.

You can get a lithium ion in the AA size, but it won't have the same voltage (it will be 3.6 V instead of 1.2 V).

 

[chew socks]

There is such a thing, it's called a 14500 Li-ion cell.

But you need to make sure that the light can handle it. A NiMH and NiCD cell are 1.2v, Alkaline is 1.5v and Lithium primary AA is 1.7v....but a Li-ion is 3.7 nominal and 4.2v fully charged. Not all lights can interchange between types because of the voltage difference.

What kind of light is it that you want to run a Li-ion in?....that way someone can tell you if it will kill your light or not.

 

[1dash1]

I'm looking for a replacement of Lithium and Alkalines cells, there must be a Lithium Ion cell with the same fit some where! I'm running into rechargeables that won't take a charge and short rumtime alkalines. There must be something better! I've been using 18650 cells in place of xx123 without a problem. Am I just chasing my tail?

chiphead

I'm not sure whether the problem is with your batteries (poor quality/low capacity) or with your flashlight (incapable of the runtimes you expected).

If it is the former problem, try Sanyo 2700 NiMH or Maha Powerex 2700 NiMH cells. They are not cheap, but they offer the best combination (in my opinion) of capacity and reasonable shelf life before self-discharging. If the problem is purely shelf life instead of runtime, then Sanyo Eneloops have the best reputation for holding a charge for long periods of time.

If your flashlight is rated at, say, an hour runtime and you're trying to squeeze out two hours; then that's a different story. For some lights, you may substitute a 2xAA battery tube for a 1x123 tube or an 18650 body for a 16340 body.

Generally speaking, you should follow the manufacturer's recommendations. It is NOT simply a matter of sticking a Li-ion 14500 cell into a AA-cell tube simply because it fits. Doing so without regard for the flashlight's ability to handle the higher voltage will likely to get you .

 

[chiphead]

Could you translate that into English?

If you have rechargeables that won't take a charge, try some new rechargeables. Eneloops are good.

You can get a lithium ion in the AA size, but it won't have the same voltage (it will be 3.6 V instead of 1.2 V).

When I say; won't take a charge I mean that when place on my Powerex MH-C9000 charger/analyzer is shows a high impedence on that cell. This mean that cell is on it's way to the boneyard. And I'm seeing to many of them.

chiphead

 

[chiphead]

There is such a thing, it's called a 14500 Li-ion cell.

But you need to make sure that the light can handle it. A NiMH and NiCD cell are 1.2v, Alkaline is 1.5v and Lithium primary AA is 1.7v....but a Li-ion is 3.7 nominal and 4.2v fully charged. Not all lights can interchange between types because of the voltage difference.

What kind of light is it that you want to run a Li-ion in?....that way someone can tell you if it will kill your light or not.

I know about the voltage difference, I thought a Li-Ion with an AA shell would be a safe bet. I'm always looking for other options.

chiphead

 

[chiphead]

I'm not sure whether the problem is with your batteries (poor quality/low capacity) or with your flashlight (incapable of the runtimes you expected).

If it is the former problem, try Sanyo 2700 NiMH or Maha Powerex 2700 NiMH cells. They are not cheap, but they offer the best combination (in my opinion) of capacity and reasonable shelf life before self-discharging. If the problem is purely shelf life instead of runtime, then Sanyo Eneloops have the best reputation for holding a charge for long periods of time.

If your flashlight is rated at, say, an hour runtime and you're trying to squeeze out two hours; then that's a different story. For some lights, you may substitute a 2xAA battery tube for a 1x123 tube or an 18650 body for a 16340 body.

Generally speaking, you should follow the manufacturer's recommendations. It is NOT simply a matter of sticking a Li-ion 14500 cell into a AA-cell tube simply because it fits. Doing so without regard for the flashlight's ability to handle the higher voltage will likely to get you .

The light in question are:
*MiniMag AA/Seoul LED
MiniMag AA/w TerraLux Cree
Fenix L2D ( but this one is sweet with simple cells)
I've been using 186500 cells for 3 months now and I love them, but they do scare me.

chiphead

 

[VidPro]

that sux, were they those high-capacity ones? here we were going higher and higher in capacity, with rechargable ni-my AAs then boom, the builds were bad (so to speak) they wouldn't hold a charge , and i had treated them rather nicely in my opinion. a whole box fulla crap, that i dont even think i got my investement back on. heck i had Tossed older low capacity batteries to replace with the higher capacity, and over time the dang lower capacity ones i had left Ran stuff BETTER than the high caps i replaced them with that were self collapsing.

so i tried enloops specifically, long ago painfully bearing the lower capacity again (2 steps foreward 1 step back) and the enloops did pretty darn well, and have been doing well non-stop since.

on the batteries your charger has a fit about, some chargers can BE that way, being a lot more pickey than they have to be , they could just do thier job instead i dont have those issues this week, but when we did, having one other lamo charger was very helpfull, like a slow charger with a discharge function.

and if your getting "HIGH" i would wonder if some of it is caused by the notrious grimm reaper of batteries, the evil reverse charge. when using batts in series, and draining them "to far" the lower battery gets slammed , and that battery that got reverse charge, gets weak, so next time out it gets slammed again.

Now without sounding like a dang Pop-Up add for enloops , the enloops consistancy of similar charge , due also to the low self discharge, meant that series discharges happend more similar, which meant that there is less reverse charge when a series device is depleated fully.
Less damage done, more robust cell, and then next round less weakness, and less spiraling into oblivion.

 

[Benson]

The light in question are:
*MiniMag AA/Seoul LED
MiniMag AA/w TerraLux Cree
Fenix L2D ( but this one is sweet with simple cells)
I've been using 186500 cells for 3 months now and I love them, but they do scare me.

chiphead

If either MiniMag is 3xAA, or the LED drop-in is good to run from three AAs, it'll run fine on a 14500 or 14650 w/ spacer. If they're 2xAA only then they'll probably blow on 1x14500.

I doubt the L2D will take it, but a search of CPF for L2D 14500 will probably turn up at least one account of someone trying it.

None of these lights will work stuffed with 14500s, of course -- that'll be over twice the design voltage -- so you'll need spacers, or cut down the bodies to 1xAA (or 4/3 AA, for 14650 cells).

 

[Marduke]

The light in question are:
*MiniMag AA/Seoul LED
MiniMag AA/w TerraLux Cree
Fenix L2D ( but this one is sweet with simple cells)
I've been using 186500 cells for 3 months now and I love them, but they do scare me.

chiphead

Not a single one of those lights will run on 14500's.

I suggest getting some new, quality AA NiMH cells for your needs. Eneloops should do the trick.

 

[Benson]

Fenix L2D ( but this one is sweet with simple cells)

Ok, I did some research, and it appears the L2D is the exact same head as the L1D, and the L1D does take 14500 cells. This, if correct, means the L2D would run just fine on 1 14500 or 14670 cell, with an appropriate spacer.

Of course, if you want to run it on a 14500, you should get an L1D instead; it's smaller for the same battery and output. But if you really want 1100mAh capacity instead of 750mAh, the L2D with a 14670 and a spacer should work.

Oh, I see Marduke has weighed in, and disagrees with me on this.:shrug: I think it should work, but I don't know -- if it seems worthwhile, do the research yourself and decide if you want to try it.

 

[VidPro]

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?p=2661554#post2661554
""The LD10 works on 3.7V rechargeable Li-Ion 14500 - but like its predecessor the L1D, all the brightness levels are high, until the battery's voltage drops low enough to go into regulation. ""

and when it was out of regulation where did they think it was at the top.

""but caveat - I am beginning to suspect that my sample of the L1D-Q5 now may have some overheating damage - looking at the head/LED I see a patch of brown/amber color over the yellow (phosphor?) - this might be signs of burning.""

hmm what could it possibly be could it be that the driver is a BOOST driver , which always like the input voltage being lower than the led voltage.

see this all the time, does it work or not, well its working, and between the other 57 flashlights they own i doubt it will be noticed much.

i did see ONE today that fell out of the norm, and would handle the high voltage even though its a boost, it was a normally very LOW driven light, so when they punched up the voltage the led for some reason, only went up so high. then other CLUES , because that is all you get sometimes , are its runtime,
and in GRAPHS the Big Skateboard Ramp as it is comming down from DD into regulation at the very first of the drive.

the best clue is often the fastest one, OH wow! that is really bright with the li-ion in it, no kidding and you arent going to wonder why a REGULATED light suddenly is 2times brighter just because you went over voltage?

luckily lots of this stuff does survive it, I do it, but carefully with the Hyperion. most of the rest of my OverDrive li-ions are altered with a microbe of resistance.

 

[Marduke]

Ok, I did some research, and it appears the L2D is the exact same head as the L1D, and the L1D does take 14500 cells. This, if correct, means the L2D would run just fine on 1 14500 or 14670 cell, with an appropriate spacer.

Of course, if you want to run it on a 14500, you should get an L1D instead; it's smaller for the same battery and output. But if you really want 1100mAh capacity instead of 750mAh, the L2D with a 14670 and a spacer should work.

Oh, I see Marduke has weighed in, and disagrees with me on this.:shrug: I think it should work, but I don't know -- if it seems worthwhile, do the research yourself and decide if you want to try it.

Excellent advice. Although the L1D will function on a 14500, it will loose all the lower modes (see post above mine).

 

[chiphead]

that sux, were they those high-capacity ones? here we were going higher and higher in capacity, with rechargable ni-my AAs then boom, the builds were bad (so to speak) they wouldn't hold a charge , and i had treated them rather nicely in my opinion. a whole box fulla crap, that i dont even think i got my investement back on. heck i had Tossed older low capacity batteries to replace with the higher capacity, and over time the dang lower capacity ones i had left Ran stuff BETTER than the high caps i replaced them with that were self collapsing.

so i tried enloops specifically, long ago painfully bearing the lower capacity again (2 steps foreward 1 step back) and the enloops did pretty darn well, and have been doing well non-stop since.

on the batteries your charger has a fit about, some chargers can BE that way, being a lot more pickey than they have to be , they could just do thier job instead i dont have those issues this week, but when we did, having one other lamo charger was very helpfull, like a slow charger with a discharge function.

and if your getting "HIGH" i would wonder if some of it is caused by the notrious grimm reaper of batteries, the evil reverse charge. when using batts in series, and draining them "to far" the lower battery gets slammed , and that battery that got reverse charge, gets weak, so next time out it gets slammed again.

Now without sounding like a dang Pop-Up add for enloops , the enloops consistancy of similar charge , due also to the low self discharge, meant that series discharges happend more similar, which meant that there is less reverse charge when a series device is depleated fully.
Less damage done, more robust cell, and then next round less weakness, and less spiraling into oblivion.

Now I get it, I could understand why of two cells, one would be low while the other had bleed to death! As Enloops cell I could find them in my local Frys. Is a matching brand of charger required?

chiphead

 

[chiphead]

If either MiniMag is 3xAA, or the LED drop-in is good to run from three AAs, it'll run fine on a 14500 or 14650 w/ spacer. If they're 2xAA only then they'll probably blow on 1x14500.

I doubt the L2D will take it, but a search of CPF for L2D 14500 will probably turn up at least one account of someone trying it.

None of these lights will work stuffed with 14500s, of course -- that'll be over twice the design voltage -- so you'll need spacers, or cut down the bodies to 1xAA (or 4/3 AA, for 14650 cells).

Curses!

chiphead

 

[chiphead]

Not a single one of those lights will run on 14500's.

I suggest getting some new, quality AA NiMH cells for your needs. Eneloops should do the trick.

Curses#2!

chiphead

 

[VidPro]

enloops can use your usual ni-mh charger, they still are ni-mh chemistry and other than the low self discharge , they act pretty much the same as a 2100ma used to.

it is still good to have a single channel charger , as opposed to a series charger (requires 2x or4x cells to charge), and something that has a good design so overcharge over spec does not occur ever.
which means either a fast one that stops correctally, or a slow one that is slow enough to stay in spec.

 

[chiphead]

enloops can use your usual ni-mh charger, they still are ni-mh chemistry and other than the low self discharge , they act pretty much the same as a 2100ma used to.

it is still good to have a single channel charger , as opposed to a series charger (requires 2x or4x cells to charge), and something that has a good design so overcharge over spec does not occur ever.
which means either a fast one that stops correctally, or a slow one that is slow enough to stay in spec.

Thanks to you VidPro and the others, I'm certainly more than a bit wiser.
chiphead

 

[Hondo]

If you are determined enough to run a AA size Li-Ion (14500) that you would consider a new light for the purpose, Nightcore's D10 and Defender Infinity models have circuits designed for them, as well as all other AA chemistries. There are a few others as well, but I own these, and they do work well (and safely) from the 14500 Li-Ion cell.