Loctite Krytox = Overpriced Garbage

[Luminescent]

I have found that the Jetbeam C-LE version 1.2 'twisty' with it's bare aluminum threads represents one of the toughest challenges for selecting a good thread and o-ring lubricant if you want to prevent thread wear and get nice smooth operation.

I can tell you one thing that DOES NOT WORK WORTH A DAMN and that's Loctite's HUGELY OVERPRICED (and I think hugely overrated) KRYTOX RFE "High Performance Lubricant".

"High Performance" that's a laugh! Plain old Vaseline (which actually doesn't work all that well), is light-years ahead of this 'Krytox' GARBAGE. In fact just about ANYTHING (including Jiffy Peanut Butter) would work better.

With poor lubricants, the C-LE's threads will feel gritty and show wear in the form of black metal particles in the grease and that's exactly what you can expect from 'KRYTOX'.

To make matters worse it's synthetic composition makes it a real pain in the *** to remove so you can replace it with something that isn't total S#%T.

For some applications where it's ability to resist harsh environments is valuable, this stuff may have some use, but on the C-LE's bare aluminum threads, it's pretty much gives the worst performance I have ever seen. :thumbsdow

DON'T WASTE YOUR MONEY.

I have some Nyogel 760G coming to try, until then I am going back to Mobil 1 car grease.

I have used the plain Mobil 1 grease for several months and had no problems, but some have pointed out that Mobil 1 synthetic grease is a little smelly, and may therefore have some lighter fraction volatile components. This creates some concern about these lighter components in the grease vaporizing and then re-condensing and fogging something in the optics.

Again I have had ZERO problems with the Mobil 1 in over six months, but this was the concern that caused me to be willing to part with over 40 bucks to try Loctites Krytox RFE 'High Performance Lubricant'[yeah right].

Like a lot of foolish people, I figured that if it cost that much, it must be incredible stuff, but trust me the ONLY reason this CRAP carries the high price tag is that some moron engineer somewhere spec'd Krytox for some VERY LIMITED B.S. industrial application, and DUPONT and Loctite decided that they would sell the 'million dollar banana' and gouge the crap out of the TINY portion of the market STUPID enough to pay their ridiculous price.

Since the Krytox seems to be TOTAL GARBAGE, I guess I will give Nyogel 760G a try.

I post some more detailed comparisons about how the various greases work out in the C-LE version 1.2 'twisty' when I calm down, but for now I thought I had better pass along the warning before someone else gets burned on the 'Krytox' rippoff.

 

[TITAN1833]

You could try (Nanolube from Christian St Claire) it is being widely used here,with great results.

 

[MikeLip]

I like Mobil 1 synthetic. It works really well, is easy to get off your hands, and it's cheap. The only thing I've found better (admittedly after not a lot of looking, because once I find something that works I stop looking!) is Deoxit. Deoxit is great, but it's harder to clean up. For aluminum flashlights it's the ticket though. I put it on the threads and contacts of my 30-plus year old TruGrit, and the light went from orange to nearly white, just like I remembered it!

 

[rolling]

+1 for Nanolube. I use it among other lights for my Hyperion what is basicly a Jetbeam and it works fine.

 

[Nosoman]

I have a C-LE ver 1.2, and what I have found that works very well is Super Lube. White lithium grease worked well too, but had an oder that I did not care for.

 

[scott.cr]

I'm not sure Krytox is an appropriate lube for what you're looking for. It is a polymerized fluorocarbon with similar chemistry to Nyogel. If you don't like Krytox, I suspect you won't like Nyogel either.

Smoothness of feel to your threads isn't a very good gauge of a lubricant's quality or performance per se, just its characteristics... a rough thread will feel smoother with lithium soap or petroleum-based lubes like the Mobil-1 people are talking about. If you want smooth thread action above all else, any cheap lithium grease will work, and it won't eat your O-rings.

You'd probably be better off polishing the threads on your Jetbeam. Jetbeams are made of sintered aluminum, which is known for rough threads.

 

[Bror Jace]

C'mon Luminescent tells how you really feel. :thinking:

Thanks for the heads-up. :twothumbs

scott.cr, are you saying the feeling of the threads has little to do with the lubricants ability to protect against wear?

I'd think a lower coefficient of friction (what we feel when we push one surface past another) would give you less wear as well. I could see that not being a guarantee of low wear ... but believe the two have a pretty close relationship with each other.

I use Leslies' pool & o-ring grease on everything. It's formulated with Krytox ... but Krytox is probably only makes up a small percentage of the material. It's cheap ($5-$6 per tube) and the threads and o-rings seem to like it (the feel-thing again).

 

[Hodsta]

Actually, I've never found anything that works better on my Ti McGizmos than Krytox and it is all I will use.

 

[jcompton]

I'm not sure Krytox is an appropriate lube for what you're looking for.

Where did you purchase your Krytox? Which Krytox did you purchase? Is it a 50/50 blend or just straight oil or straight grease? There are many different "flavors" of Krytox available and if you do not have the right "flavor" or blend for that matter, it would appear to be useless for your particular application. Since you stated that your purchase caused you to "part with over 40 bucks" I'm assuming that you did not receive the same blend as offered by myself or the blend offered by the Sandwich Shoppe. It is this blend that is favored among many as one of the best lubes, primarily for Titanium applications. I have personally found that for very fine bare aluminum threads (as those found on the JetBeam lights) that the Nyogel 760G is a great lube which will give you that smooth feel you are looking for, but the viscosity of this lube has been known to differ considerably from warm to cold environments. The Krytox does not suffer (as greatly) from such a change in temperature as the Nyogel does.

You'd probably be better off polishing the threads on your Jetbeam. Jetbeams are made of sintered aluminum, which is known for rough threads.

Having personally owned a few of JetBeam's offerings, it is clear to me that (although it may be a hit or miss) the lights I have had in my possession have required a bit of cleaning. (I wipe the threads with a paper towel, then dip a Q-tip in a bit of rubbing alcohol to further clean the threads, followed by a toothbrush to get into each thread, then I take a brass wire (bore) brush to finish the job. Finally I wipe them down again with a fresh paper towel and lube them up.) Once they have been cleaned and lubed, they usually function smooth as butter. In the occasion that they still feel a bit gritty (and this is more of an issue with the Ti lights) I usually pull on the two parts of the light which allow for additional stress to be placed on the threads and I begin working them in this manner. After working the threads, it is good practice to remove the lube which was used during the process since it contains small metal particles which were the cause of the gritty feel. Clean the threads and re-apply your lube and you should be good to go.

As far as using the proper Krytox blend for the application: If the proper Krytox blend were not some of the best lube available, I doubt the master craftsmen of CPF such as McGizmo (as a light designer/manufacturer) and Milkyspit (as a professional Modder with an amazing following) would be using this for their offerings.

Luminescent, if you have indeed purchased a Krytox other than that which I am offering, which can be attributed to your less than pleasurable experience involving your JetBeam C-LE, I am willing to send you a bottle so that you can see the true benefit of the Krytox "blend" when used for the application in which it was intended (that being primarily Ti threads and a few aluminum applications) at no cost to you. If you are still unsatisfied you can drop it back in the mail and I will send you paypal for the return postage. If you decide that you do indeed like the Krytox blend and would like to keep the bottle that I send you, all I ask is that you make a small donation to CPF and that you enjoy how silky smooth all your lights will operate.

John

 

[Codeman]

I use Krytox 50/50 on all of my McGizmo lights and a few others and have been quite happy with it. Magnalube-G is my second choice, but I haven't tried Nanolube yet.

 

[Luminescent]

Where did you purchase your Krytox? Which Krytox did you purchase? Is it a 50/50 blend or just straight oil or straight grease?

I was careful to point out that this is "Loctite Krytox RFE" (which must stand for "REALLY F#%KING EXPENSIVE"). Unlike most of the 'blends' it IS supposed to be the REAL thing. There are two components to any grease, a base oil and a thickener and REAL Krytox has a completely synthetic base using Dupont PFPE (PerFluoroPolyEther) base oil with a Dupont PTFE (PolyTertraFluoroEthylene) thickener. There are indeed various formulations with and without anticorrosion additives and with various viscosities but the pure PFPE/PTFE combo seems to be what differentiates 'real' Krytox from some of the 'blended' products.

There are many different "flavors" of Krytox available and if you do not have the right "flavor" or blend for that matter, it would appear to be useless for your particular application. Since you stated that your purchase caused you to "part with over 40 bucks" I'm assuming that you did not receive the same blend as offered by myself or the blend offered by the Sandwich Shoppe. It is this blend that is favored among many as one of the best lubes, primarily for Titanium applications.

Titanium is not aluminum, there is a HUGE difference in surface hardness, and I suspect that that is the reason that Krytox works well with Ti lights. There seems to be a critical hardness needed to smear the PTFE particles into the underlying surface and bare aluminum doesn't cut it with Krytox. Anodized aluminum is another story entirely. I have used other [much cheaper] PTFE lubes on anodized aluminum and they worked great. These other PTFE lubes actually worked better than Krytox on the C-LE because they lacked the 'real' Krytox PFPE (PerFluoroPolyEther) base oil and the synthetic hydrocarbon base oil they did have seemed to try to partially make up for the fact that the PTFE particles used as a thickener don't work right with bare aluminum.

I have personally found that for very fine bare aluminum threads (as those found on the JetBeam lights) that the Nyogel 760G is a great lube which will give you that smooth feel you are looking for, but the viscosity of this lube has been known to differ considerably from warm to cold environments. The Krytox does not suffer (as greatly) from such a change in temperature as the Nyogel does.

Thanks for the heads up on Nyogel. I already have some on order. I have not found that silica filled greases like Nyogel worked very smoothly at preventing 'grittiness' in the C-LE so far, but I have high hopes for the Nyogel 760G. We'll see.

Having personally owned a few of JetBeam's offerings, it is clear to me that (although it may be a hit or miss)

Nothing wrong with the C-LE's threads, this was a later production model and the threads arrived looking perfectly polished, and worked absolutely silky smooth with Mobil 1 car grease (a synthetic base oil/Lithium Soap grease). The C-LE threads turned like a precision micrometer with the Mobil 1 grease, so there was no problem with the C-LE, just with the Krytox.

Clean the threads and re-apply your lube and you should be good to go.

As noted above, the threads were PERFECT before using the Krytox, but after trying to get Krytox to work for about an hour, the originally white Krytox was dark grey with aluminum grit that the Krytox had ripped from the C-LE's threads, and after I did the best I could to clean of the sticky Krytox crap out of the threads, I found the threads looked like hell and showed considerable evidence of galling and wear.

As far as using the proper Krytox blend for the application: If the proper Krytox blend were not some of the best lube available, I doubt the master craftsmen of CPF such as McGizmo (as a light designer/manufacturer) and Milkyspit (as a professional Modder with an amazing following) would be using this for their offerings.

Again the C-LE is NOT a titanium flashlight or one with anodized aluminum threads, both of which are completly different animals. Krytox will work with materials that have very high surface hardness, but NOT on bare aluminum or other softer alloys. It should NOT have been pitched as a good general purpose lube, because it is NOT a good lubricant for bare aluminum surfaces and will basically DISTROY your C-LE if you use it long enough.

Luminescent, if you have indeed purchased a Krytox other than that which I am offering, which can be attributed to your less than pleasurable experience involving your JetBeam C-LE, I am willing to send you a bottle so that you can see the true benefit of the Krytox "blend" when used for the application in which it was intended (that being primarily Ti threads and a few aluminum applications) at no cost to you. If you are still unsatisfied you can drop it back in the mail and I will send you paypal for the return postage. If you decide that you do indeed like the Krytox blend and would like to keep the bottle that I send you, all I ask is that you make a small donation to CPF and that you enjoy how silky smooth all your lights will operate.

Is your 'Krytox' blended with a REAL (PerFluoroPolyEther) base oil or just some kind of PTFE with standard synthetic hydrocarbon base oil?

If it's blended with real Krytox PFPE synthetic oil to thin it down, then I would worry about the same galling problems I had with the Loctite product, and if it's blended with a hydrocarbon based synthetic oil, then it's NOT true Krytox and I would worry about the same oil evaporation issues that were a concern with the Mobil 1 synthetic.

So thanks for the offer john, but I have some inexpensive PTFE 'blend' lubricant that works great with steel/titanium applications and also works great with aluminum flashlights with anodized threads. This generic PTFE stuff was only so-so for the C-LE (still some grittiness) and I made the mistake of thinking that the 'Pure' PFPE/PTFE 'Krytox' would be better. I now see that the non-'krytox' components of the lubricant that I was using were the only things that WERE working with the C-LE, and that the closer you get to 'pure' Krytox the WORSE it's going to work with the C-LE.

 

[Codeman]

Krytox 50/50 does work well with bare AL. I've used it on numerous lights with very smooth operation.

BTW - Krytox 50/50 isn't sticky and doesn't become sticky. It sounds like your problems may be specific to Loctite's product and not to the Krytox itself. To be honest, I wouldn't buy a lubricant from a company whose primary product lines are adhesives.

 

[scott.cr]

scott.cr, are you saying the feeling of the threads has little to do with the lubricants ability to protect against wear?

More or less. A rough thread may take a low-viscosity lubricant and "absorb" it into the peaks/valleys of its surface where it can go unnoticed. By contrast, a thick lubricant (grease) can be applied heavily, fill the peaks/valleys and it will stay in place.

Two pieces of sandpaper face-to-face. Put the most slippery, high-tech oil in the world between them and it won't reduce drag much. Now slop some nice, low-tech lard on there, and the two will glide along each other like butta'.

It's all about selecting a lubricant that's compatible with the application. In this case, Krytox doesn't fit the user's need, so I would consider that to be non-compatible with the application.

 

[Delij]

I've found the synthetic (no petroleum) grease (with teflon) used for fishing reels to be ideal for lubrication and waterproofing. It is cheap, easily available (Sports Authority and fishing stores....probably Bass Pro, maybe Walmart).

Stuff is made by South Bend industries. I figure anything designed to stand up to salt water is going to work fine the far less severe conditions of keeping threads of a flashlight lubed. And it works great.....how anyone could spend $40 for grease for this purpose...... Tube of this was maybe $2? Over a year ago, so I don't remember exactly. But definitely cheap.

Being petroleum free it should be fine for not deteriorating O rings. (O rings are also used in fishing reels I believe).

Peace,
D.