Long scratch on new LOD-CE reflector... what would you do?

[4sevens]

katx, I'll edit it now per your request.

 

[katx]

katx, I'll edit it now per your request.

Thank you, 4sevens. You are clearly an honorable person.

 

[4sevens]

Thank you, 4sevens. You are clearly an honorable person.

Thanks and you too. I hope I edited enough.

 

[bondr006]

I guess what I don't understand is, if it is ok for a customer to use past email/correspondence(as Turbo was going to do, but was not allowed) to defend him or herself...why is it not ok for the company from which the product was purchased from to do the same in their own defense?

 

[FlashKat]

Turbo DV8 did use it, but was deleted by the Moderators and 4 Sevens was allowed to keep his posted.

I guess what I don't understand is, if it is ok for a customer to use past email/correspondence(as Turbo was going to do, but was not allowed) to defend him or herself...why is it not ok for the company from which the product was purchased from to do the same in their own defense?

 

[TigerhawkT3]

I guess what I don't understand is, if it is ok for a customer to use past email/correspondence(as Turbo was going to do, but was not allowed) to defend him or herself...why is it not ok for the company from which the product was purchased from to do the same in their own defense?

You've got it entirely backwards. It wasn't OK for the customer to do it. The couple posted emails were deleted by mods within minutes. However, the company's year's worth of irrelevant quotes and inaccurate paraphrasing was allowed to remain until the company decided to edit some of it out, long after several posters expressed concern and requested that the private correspondence be removed.

 

[katx]

I guess what I don't understand is, if it is ok for a customer to use past email/correspondence(as Turbo was going to do, but was not allowed) to defend him or herself...why is it not ok for the company from which the product was purchased from to do the same in their own defense?

Let's say two wrongs don't make a right?

Here is another answer: companies do/should not except privacy. Customers do. Companies are not promised privacy. Customers are. Privilege is established based on prior, reasonable and err customary expectations.

 

[bondr006]

I guess what I am trying to say is that if Turbos post with email in it had been left up, he would not have been asked to remove it by any of the members here. Would it have been ok in your eyes for Turbo to post email/correspondence in his defense against 4sevens?

 

[bondr006]

Let's say that this matter went to civil court. Would the emails be allowed as evidence? And would it not then be a matter of public record?

 

[TigerhawkT3]

I guess what I am trying to say is that if Turbos post with email in it had been left up, he would not have been asked to remove it by any of the members here.

Now, what on God's green Earth made you assume THAT?

Would it have been ok in your eyes for Turbo to post email/correspondence in his defense against 4sevens?

That post was immediately moderated. That made it pretty much a non-issue, since not many people would insist that he remove something that was already gone.

 

[katx]

Let's say that this matter went to civil court. Would the emails be allowed as evidence? And would it not then be a matter of public record?

Rob: unethical =/= illegal.

But speaking of civil suits: I think Turbo can sue you for calling him a thief.

You also accused me of being the same person as Turbo.

BTW: the below claim by you was hilarious:

"It's not name calling. From my observations, it's a plain outright judgment of his character....or should I say, lack there of....."

 

[bondr006]

One thing is for certain. The two of them(Turbo and 4sevens) have thoroughly proven in public as to the nature of their characters. I know whom has earned my respect and trust.

 

[katx]

One thing is for certain. The two of them(Turbo and 4sevens) have thoroughly proven in public as to the nature of their characters. I know whom has earned my respect and trust.

Good job! No name-calling there.

But let's be honest, you had already respected and trusted 4sevens. No?

 

[TigerhawkT3]

One thing is for certain. The two of them(Turbo and 4sevens) have thoroughly proven in public as to the nature of their characters. I know whom has earned my respect and trust.

Would that be the one who was repeatedly and undeservedly insulted, or the one who exchanged a damaged light for a customer by sending the same damaged light right back?

What will the FS/4Sers say next - that the scratch on the reflector is "just a theory"? :laughing:

 

[bondr006]

Yes, I already trusted him and respected him for good reason. But, he has further earned my trust respect through all this as someone who will go to just about any length to please his customers. The way I see it, he could have done nothing more to please Turbo than what he did. And in the end, Turbo just slapped him in the face.

Here is a suggestion: send Turbo DV8 a new light along with a prepaid UPS label. Even better inspect the flashlight before sending it to him. He can then send you back the other one.

This way he knows he is not getting his own back.

I'm totally up for that. But he needs to email or post to confirm.

 

[katx]

Yes, I already trusted him and respected him for good reason. But, he has further earned my trust respect through all this as someone who will go to just about any length to please his customers. The way I see it, he could have done nothing more to please Turbo than what he did. And in the end, Turbo just slapped him in the face.

I disagree. See, I do not start by assuming people are thieves until such is proven.

At this point I believe Turbo when he says the same light was shipped backed to him. And I have not seen any compelling evidence (other than 4seven's belief) that that is not so.

But as far as I am concerned that is all water under the bridge. And yes, NOW, there is nothing more that 4sevens can offer.

I also understand and sympathize (but do not agree) with Turbo's reluctance to chance a return. His hesitance should not be used to bash him. From his point of view he has had a horrible experience with FS.

Why bash people? Why not assume all are honorable until the opposite is proven -- and imo we are not even close to that.

Turbo and 4sevens are two people with first-hand knowledge. They can offer certain conclusions. But it is reprehensible that bystanders with no first-hand knowledge and with very little evidence presented would then call a poster a thief or a business unethical.

 

[Itchrelief]

One thing is for certain. The two of them(Turbo and 4sevens) have thoroughly proven in public as to the nature of their characters. I know whom has earned my respect and trust.

4seven's service seems to be very good.

But I would not hire him to be a PR man.

 

[greenstuffs]

There is something called HONOR and what you believe is right, you take it to the end no matter what and prove to anyone that you are right. Thats what Turbo did and i respect him for all that, the light is not an issue in this matter i can afford to throw $50 to the garbage if i please but my integrity worth more than $50. People are too biased here, they call Turbo attention whore while they praised the dealer for starting a thread about demanding customers, i guess if you don't like testing things before ship, you can sell newspapers on the corner.

But other than that the damage was done none dealer should ever post personal communication in a public board things should have taken behind scenes and not publicly, you can hit someone in the face and say sorry later but things don't work this way anymore because we are not kids.

After reading all this matter i chose not to deal with FS because they do not respect the customer's privacy which is very important to me first for publicizing issues about the matter, things that are not related and outdated quotes.

P.S Please do not bash me for taking my business elsewhere.

 

[Turbo DV8]

The way I see it, he could have done nothing more to please Turbo than what he did. And in the end, Turbo just slapped him in the face.

My choosing to not give Fenix-store a third chance to get it right constitutes me slapping him in the face? Wow. :thinking: Here's what would have pleased me. First, it would have pleased me if Fenix-store had sent me a light without a scratch on the reflector. Second, what would have pleased me almost as much as that is having Fenix-store not ship me back the same scratched light. :tsk: But it's a moot point now. In fact, as far as I was concerned, it was a moot point before 4sevens resurrected the thread, which had been dead for three months. He had, by that time, demonstrated to me the level of service/quality of product I was going to receive from Fenix-store, so I made my peace with the scratch and washed my hands of Fenix-store at that point. I am not obligated to give Fenix-store a third chance to get it right. Or a fourth, or a fifth, for that matter.

To those accusing me of "carrying on and on" in this matter, keep in mind the thread (and my complaint) was dead and buried at page one for three friggin' months until 4sevens resurrected it, at which point a couple FS cronies came on board and went on the attack, and continue to do so, and here we now are at page five. As a result of your continued attacks, the very one you love so much must hate you right about now for keeping this thread right at the top. If you whine that I carry on so, here's a handy formula to keep in mind: No attack = no defense = dead thread.

wintermute:

Why would you make a thread about a light which had a scratch - but DID NOT effect (sic) the beam whatsoever. Why would you make a thread when you are actually "happy with the beam" which the said light produces. Why would you go on and on about the existence of a scratch that in actuality mattered so little, that you yourself would REFUSE a replacement flashlight once one is offered.

I didn't refuse a replacement flashlight, wintermute. I am now refusing a replacement of a replacement that was actually a non-replacement. When 4sevens sent me a DOA P1, he told me that he would not even turn on the replacement P1 before shipping it to me to make sure it at least turned on. So, having told me that, I really don't expect him to take the time to even glance at the third LOD-CE he sends me to make sure it isn't scratched, or even look at it to make sure he isn't sending me back the same light a third time. If that's the attitude and level of customer service I have received in these two cases, why on God's green earth would I just keep returning the light ad infinitum? You know, you accuse me of "going on and on" about this. If people like you would actually read the original post and try to understand it, you wouldn't have to keep asking questions which have already been answered. But you don't want to understand it, rather you just keep attacking, hence it keeps "going on and on." Thank yourself for that one, not I. Then came the demands to provide photos of the scratch, so after more effort, I delivered. But that still wasn't good enough for you. Seeing still wasn't believing for bondr006, either, who then accused me of photoshopping the scratch into existence, or that I disassembled the light and scratched the reflector myself just for the photo. If folk like yourself didn't refuse to comprehend, this thread would die on the vine, as it was before you jumped on.

I'll make it r-e-a-l simple for ya', wintermute. :kiss: All the answers to all your questions in your above post are contained within my very first post. That's pretty amazing, huh, that I was able to read your mind three months in advance and answer all your questions before you even asked them. But the answers are all there. And not just the answers, I also stated a couple eerily prophetic misgivings in that post, too! I am wondering, did you ever read it? Read it carefully now, oh, about a hundred times, and then maybe, just maybe something will click. But probably not. I've made it even simpler for you by providing the original post. Where I have italicized a phrase, that is a clue to pay special attention for your answers.

Long scratch on new LOD-CE reflector... what would you do?

Just received my Fenix LOD-CE. It has a faint but noticeable scratch on the reflector all the way from the lens near the O-ring, almost all the way down to the base of the reflector, near the LED. The scratch has no noticeable effect on the beam, but you can see it when looking at the reflector. It bothers me somewhat to pay $45 and receive a unit with a scratched reflector, even though it doesn't show up in the beam. My P1 came DOA, and my L2P had annoying contact problems shortly after purchase, so my experience with Fenix is somewhat soured considering what they charge for their lights. If I cared to receive this kind of luck with quality, I would buy some other Chinese light and pay half the Fenix price!

Anyway, at least the LOD-CE works as it should, and I am wondering if it would pay to be anal and send it back for replacement, or am I asking for more bad luck and maybe get back a unit with perfect reflector, but bad electronics like my P1, or wobbly head, or... Do you think this scratch could cause problems later on with the aluminum reflector, maybe being a source for oxidation to begin and bloom on the reflector? If I keep the light as-is and this scratch does become a real problem years down the road, do you think Fenix would stand by and replace it then? With my past Fenix experiences, I am a little leery of sending it back and getting back something else wrong, or worse.

 

[TigerhawkT3]

I wouldn't worry about it, Turbo DV8. Trying to convince these people that, while FS usually does a good job, 4S failed miserably and repeatedly with this issue is like trying to cut down the mightiest tree in the forest...

WITH...

A HERRING!