Looking for a new EDC - got a D10 - cell-related reliability issue

[TigerhawkT3]

I've had several EDC lights by now, but only one or two of them have been 100% rock-solid reliable. I'm using an NDI now, but it's giving me this issue where it cuts out for a second or two, and sometimes I have to give it a tap to get light out of it. My Gladius, while otherwise awesome, was also kind of finicky, although that may have been the cells I was using. As such, I have a bit of a list of features I would like.

-ROCK SOLID RELIABLE, like a ProPoly - no flickering, tapping, glitches, Ctrl+Alt+Del, factory resets, nothing
-I don't mind if it's 18650- or 2AA-sized (although 1AA would be nice), especially if it needs the juice to power an MC-E, but I want to be able to get decent output with alk or even heavy-duty AA cells in a pinch
-Real low - a lumen or two would be nice, but the lower the better (seriously - I'd be pleased with a Low of a few dozen microamps)
-I want to be able to turn it on and get Low - I'm not picky about how it accomplishes that
-I could take or leave crenellations
-Tailstand would be real nice
-No PWM flickering whatsoever - I'll tolerate it if it's higher than 3-4kHz, but I'd prefer CC for the efficiency gain
-Fully variable output (I'd prefer something close to logarithmic if it uses a preprogrammed ramping speed), programmable output levels, decent presets, or some other reasonable multi-level UI
-A beam with a strong bias towards throw, but no turbohead
-Reasonably compact
-Decent ano - I'd prefer great HA over exact color matching
-A belt clip, or a close fit for a Ripoffs holster
-I want to be able to lend it to non-flashaholics without having to mime a spreadsheet in midair with hand gestures - if they can pick it up and get light, that's great, and if they can pick it up and choose between some sort of Low and High, even better
-It doesn't really need a programmable strobe and SOS (I already carry an LF2), but if it can be available without getting in the way, that's fine
-I'd really prefer no quiescent current, but if it takes a year or two to drain a fresh battery, or if it's a >6-month drain but there's a lockout that disconnects the batt without messing up the UI, I'm fine with that
-If something that fits these criteria is going to be released within a couple months or so (e.g. MC-E models), I'm fine with waiting
-I'm planning on getting a Zebralight H501 when all the UI problems and delays are taken care of, so I won't need its features in this light

That's all I can think of for now, but I've doubtless forgotten at least a few things. If I remember them, I'll add them.

 

[Marduke]

Re: Looking for a new EDC

I've been very impressed with my recent acquisition of a Proton Pro. If you're ok with the red being the VERY low low coming on first, it matches everything else you asked for. It has a sufficiency low white also, but you have to go through high white first, meaning you would have to cover the end of the light with a hand or something to block it while you ramp down.

I honestly think an all-white version would be the last 1xAA EDC I would need for a very long time. It would even dislodge my NDI from that position.

 

[alibaba]

Re: Looking for a new EDC

I've been very impressed with my recent acquisition of a Proton Pro. If you're ok with the red being the VERY low low coming on first, it matches everything else you asked for. It has a sufficiency low white also, but you have to go through high white first, meaning you would have to cover the end of the light with a hand or something to block it while you ramp down.

I honestly think an all-white version would be the last 1xAA EDC I would need for a very long time. It would even dislodge my NDI from that position.[/quote]



Boy do I agree with you on that! I used to own a Photon Freedom and the UI was, by FAR, the best I've ever used. Click for max and press/hold to start at min. and ramp up. If the Proton did away with the red I'd own one guaranteed. Still it seems like a great light. As for the OP, the Nitecore D10 fits most (all?) of your needs other than not having a clip. It also has some current drain while off but this can be stopped by a 1/2 twist of the head to put it into momentary mode. Great lights both but I think you might want the D10!

 

[LED-holic]

Re: Looking for a new EDC

For AA EDC, I can think of no other light I'd more highly recommend than the NiteCore D10 right now.

A close second is the Fenix L1D.

Also, for an EDC light I'm not sure why you'd be worried about battery drain while off. If it's going to be used daily then that should be a non-issue.

Otherwise as noted you can lock out by loosening the bezel.

 

[TigerhawkT3]

Re: Looking for a new EDC

More items for the list:
-Beam artifacts. A slight Cree ring is okay, and I'll tolerate a very slightly off-center emitter, but I'll probably need a textured reflector to achieve a minimally acceptable (for me) beam.
-My price range is right around the Nitecore PDs, with $100ish being pretty much the limit.

The Proton Pro just never really interested me. Being able to start on Low with white light (for color rendition) is important for me. What kind of beam pattern does the little red LED have, anyway? The 5mm red LEDs I've seen all have this trippy bullseye-shaped beam.

I had been considering one of the Nitecore PDs until I found that they're PWM-dimmed, at which point I stopped considering them, until I found that they use a very high frequency for aforementioned PWM, at which point I continued considering them.

A few hundred microamps of QC isn't bad at all, seeing as how it'll last for more than a year, but it just bugs me knowing that it's using power but not creating light. I have a custom with a really great low that's super gentle on night vision and draws about 100 microamps at that output, so I know that even so little current could still be useful flashlight-wise. It's totally nitpicking, though, so I'll try to forget about it. And, hey, since there's no QC with the lockout active, I don't really even need to worry about it at all!

I have a couple questions about the D10 in regards to my little list:

-How's the beam? Throwy-ish, but reasonably smooth?
-Reliability! Have any of you gotten a finicky one, a unit that behaved oddly, etc.? I know they haven't been out long, but oh well.
-Have any of you tested it out on a non-flashaholic? What were your experiences there?
-Any word on whether they're planning an 18650/MC-E version (that can still produce light with 1V, hopefully, with a lower low of >1L, also hopefully, and heck, maybe a pocket clip)? I can't really afford to "buy both" anymore, and if I had to choose between the buying the current version now or buying a slightly larger but much brighter version in a couple months, I'd definitely go for the latter.

 

[Outdoors Fanatic]

Re: Looking for a new EDC

Go for the Muyshondt Aeon. Don't waste your time looking for lesser products...

 

[TigerhawkT3]

Re: Looking for a new EDC

Go for the Muyshondt Aeon. Don't waste your time looking for lesser products...

Very nice - extremely nice, actually - but I don't think that's what I'm looking for right now. I already have a keychain EDC light that I like, and it looks like the Aeon doesn't match some of the items on my list (like its price - double my maximum budget). I'll keep it in mind for the future, though, as it looks more than excellent!

 

[qip]

Re: Looking for a new EDC

simple 2aa mag with 5ex and nitize multilevel switch ? very simple ,bright enough , durable

 

[alibaba]

Re: Looking for a new EDC

I have a couple questions about the D10 in regards to my little list:

-How's the beam? Throwy-ish, but reasonably smooth?
-Reliability! Have any of you gotten a finicky one, a unit that behaved oddly, etc.? I know they haven't been out long, but oh well.
-Have any of you tested it out on a non-flashaholic? What were your experiences there?
-Any word on whether they're planning an 18650/MC-E version (that can still produce light with 1V, hopefully, with a lower low of >1L, also hopefully, and heck, maybe a pocket clip)? I can't really afford to "buy both" anymore, and if I had to choose between the buying the current version now or buying a slightly larger but much brighter version in a couple months, I'd definitely go for the latter.

-The beam: mine is beautiful. It has a fairly tight spot for good throw surrounded by, on mine, pretty bright/very smooth spill. If you point it at a white wall and stare you can pick out faint Cree rings but trust me when I say that they are not bad at all and don't affect use AT ALL.
-Reliability: There isn't much to go wrong on these lights. The switch consists of springs and a microprocessor. I guess if one of those fails you're out of luck but MOST modern lights use both of these items and are pretty reliable. I don't see any problems here.
-I've had a friend use the light who isn't "into" lights. I had it set for medium and you just push once for on, push again for off. Once he wanted it dimmer and the simple, press/hold for ramping UI was picked up immediately.
-Don't know about another version but I'm "testing" some new 14500 Li-Ion cells (I heard that you're supposed to run them down from full to empty a couple of times when you first get them to achieve full capacity) that I bought and when dimmed to a level equal to my Surefire E1B (a quite conservative 80 lumens) I'm getting 2 hours of steady light (by eye) before the cells protection kicks in. I'm perfectly happy with the runtimes as-is and with a spare cell have no need for a larger version. YMMV

EDIT: here's a link to a beamshot of my D10 (I'm not good at 'em let me warn you): http://img74.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf1017ue0.jpg

 

[TigerhawkT3]

Re: Looking for a new EDC

Cool. I don't suppose there's a way to pick a setting between Low and High and toggle between the three at will?

Maybe I'll send an email to Nitecore about more powerful versions. I like the idea of a 500L EDC.

 

[metlarules]

Re: Looking for a new EDC

I've been pretty impressed with my Olight T-15.Have a look and see if this will fit your needs.http://www.batteryjunction.com/t15-specialedition-olight.html

 

[LED-holic]

Re: Looking for a new EDC

Cool. I don't suppose there's a way to pick a setting between Low and High and toggle between the three at will?

Maybe I'll send an email to Nitecore about more powerful versions. I like the idea of a 500L EDC.

Nope. At first I was concerned about losing the user variable setting, but after using the light for almost a month, I can honest say that this is not a problem at all.

I can hit low very easily with a couple of clicks. Going to max takes a fraction more time by click / hold. Ramping up or down is a piece of cake. If I did have a "medium" setting I'd still be ramping it up or down all the time because it's so easy to do so. I am no longer content with multi-mode lights that offer multiple settings, no matter how much customization you can do (like the LF5XT). I want to ramp up or down to suit my needs all the time now. With the D10 it's a piece of cake. :twothumbs

So all in all after a month of constant usage I can say the UI is about 99% perfect.

 

[sappyg]

Re: Looking for a new EDC

"-A belt clip, or a close fit for a Ripoffs holster"
i've been using the holster from my P2D for my D10.... i took a holster from a L1T but it held the D10 too tightly. i threw in a couple of stitches 1/4 from the top of the holster to snug it up just a little. works great. you can't go wriong with the D10.

 

[TigerhawkT3]

Re: Looking for a new EDC

Well, I've sent Nitecore an email asking for 18650, MC-E, 2-5L Low, and extra heatsinking (for the MC-E). Now to play the waiting game... :naughty:

 

[TigerhawkT3]

Re: Looking for a new EDC

Nitecore didn't really have anything to say about my suggestion, so I bought a D10 from 4sevens to tide me over until MC-E lights start showing up. Thanks for the suggestions, everyone!

 

[climberkid]

Re: Looking for a new EDC

i think im gonna follow your lead tigerhawk. i have been on the fence about it but this thread may just have convinced me.

 

[yaesumofo]

Re: Looking for a new EDC

I think you made a good decision. My EDC is a Lunasol 20 which I highly recommend. For an all around ultra reliable heavy duty flashlight the Lunasol is hard to beat.
That said, The nitecore D10 is a very interesting flashlight. It is the only single AA light that I have which IMHO would hold up to the daily rigors of EDC. I have an older proton and for me it is little more than a novelty. The New unit may be better but it just isn't right for me.
I have been carrying the D10 on a secondary EDC basis for a couple of weeks now and I have to say that I am pretty impressed by it's reliability and build quality. The 7075 aluminum alloy construction is unique among mass produced flashlights and the anodizing is good.
The PD aspect of the the light is based upon a McGizmo design. He has said the fact that since the piston is running inside a anodized body that there is potential for failure if (when) the anodizing wears. Using anodizing to isolate the circuit electrically. May not be a great idea in the long run.
He made this comment when the light first came out.
His comment:
"I do have one concern though and it may not be significant. It appears to me that the NiteCore lights depend on the anodize film to keep components electrically isolated from each other. I have experienced in the past where the anodize film can be breached and electricity can flow. This seems most likely in situations where you have movement and the potential of abrasion. Let me put it this way. If these NiteCore lights were nickel plated, raw Al or some conductive metal like Ti, I don't think they would function as designed. I believe the contact ring could and would on occasion, pick up ground without actually being in contact with the piston. I say this because it does not appear that the contact ring on the NightCore is physically isolated from the head. It is electrically isolated from the head by virtue of the anodize film but can make physical contact. This unwanted "short" would require continuity (simultaneously) between the piston and the sleeve, sleeve and head, and head and contact ring. That would be a simultaneous breach in the anodize film on four different surfaces. This is probably very unlikely. Murphy has jumped through similar hoops for me but he is a member of my team on a full time basis for some reason. "


This may or may not be of some concern to the NIte core owners in the future. we will see.
In the mean time we have a nice light which it seems pretty much fulfils your requirements as posted in the first post of the thread.
I also look forward to reading how the D10 does for you.

I am very happy to have such a great light in the Lunasol 20 (and 27) as Primary goto EDC flashlights.
The D10 is a darn good backup light IMHO.
Yaesumofo

 

[alibaba]

Re: Looking for a new EDC

The PD aspect of the the light is based upon a McGizmo design. He has said the fact that since the piston is running inside a anodized body that there is potential for failure if (when) the anodizing wears. Using anodizing to isolate the circuit electrically. May not be a great idea in the long run.
He made this comment when the light first came out.
His comment:
"I do have one concern though and it may not be significant. It appears to me that the NiteCore lights depend on the anodize film to keep components electrically isolated from each other. I have experienced in the past where the anodize film can be breached and electricity can flow. This seems most likely in situations where you have movement and the potential of abrasion. Let me put it this way. If these NiteCore lights were nickel plated, raw Al or some conductive metal like Ti, I don't think they would function as designed. I believe the contact ring could and would on occasion, pick up ground without actually being in contact with the piston. I say this because it does not appear that the contact ring on the NightCore is physically isolated from the head. It is electrically isolated from the head by virtue of the anodize film but can make physical contact. This unwanted "short" would require continuity (simultaneously) between the piston and the sleeve, sleeve and head, and head and contact ring. That would be a simultaneous breach in the anodize film on four different surfaces. This is probably very unlikely. Murphy has jumped through similar hoops for me but he is a member of my team on a full time basis for some reason. "

This may or may not be of some concern to the NIte core owners in the future. we will see.
In the mean time we have a nice light which it seems pretty much fulfils your requirements as posted in the first post of the thread.
I also look forward to reading how the D10 does for you.

I am very happy to have such a great light in the Lunasol 20 (and 27) as Primary goto EDC flashlights.
The D10 is a darn good backup light IMHO.
Yaesumofo

I asked 4-7's about this and he said the same thing. It would require many areas to wear through the ano to cause a problem and with proper lube this is hugely unlikely. The best thing that he said, tho, is that even if this happens the only thing that you lose is the momentary function. It will still function just fine with the head screwed down for "clicky" operation and he verified this by testing a light that was raw aluminium with no ano whatsoever. I don't see any problem knowing that.................:twothumbs

 

[TigerhawkT3]

Re: Looking for a new EDC

Got my D10 today. The following pros and cons are IMHO. YMMV.

Pros:
-The slightly smaller size as compared to an NDI allows it to fit perfectly in a Ripoffs 1AA holster.
-Low and High on alk/NiMH are comparable to a stock Gladius.
-I hadn't tried 14500s in my NDI (or, obviously, the D10) until today, and it's a very noticable difference over alk/NiMH to my eyes. Nevertheless, I think I'll stick with NiMH for the lower Low.
-Fit and finish are very nice.
-Tint is much whiter than my NDI.
-Wide hotspot, but still throwy.
-Pretty beam, with just a slight shadow around the hotspot (no brighter rings).
-Ramping is great! Almost twice as fast as my NDI, and it appears (visually, calibrated human eyeball) to ramp near the high end almost as quickly as near the low end.
-Tailstand.

Cons:
-The Low and High shortcuts involve an On-Off sequence.
-There's no way to go directly from Off into Low after using another output setting. There's a quick flash of whatever setting you were using before it shortcuts to Low.
-After using a shortcut to get to Low or High, ramping often requires a press-press, the first of which doesn't appear to do anything besides inform the light that you'd like it to please consider ramping, instead of just one press.
-I couldn't find a good way to attach the included 550 lanyard with the little clip. This was also the case with the NDI.

I think I'll enjoy EDCing this. I'll try to find some non-flashaholics to see if they can operate it without too much trouble.

 

[LED-holic]

Re: Looking for a new EDC

Cool. Glad you like the light.

With regards to going directly into low, while the light is on high, simply press the bezel against yourself / shirt to hide the output, and then click into low, to avoid a bright output if it's important to you.

The ramping works after a single press, but sometimes requires 2 presses, because if you're at low, and it tries to ramp lower, nothing happens, similar to high. This is a well known attribute of the current ramping function. It could be improved so that if it's at min it would auto ramp higher each time, but is not a very big deal imho.