Low Self Discharging NIMH's

[sol-leks]

I have been using sanyo eneloops for a few months now and they are great, but I could use some more and they are quite expensive. I was looking on battery junction and noticed that rayovac LSD's are half the price of the sanyo's. There is also a brand called titanium.

How do these other brands compare? Thanks

 

[Marduke]

Thomas Distributing is only $9.97 for four.

The other brands are not quite as good.

 

[PlayboyJoeShmoe]

For my uses which include 9AA running a M*g85 or 6AA running a ROP HI or 2AA running GPS, Digi Cam and stuff like that I find absolutely no reason to avoid Rayovac Hybrids.

I can't see where my four Eneloops do anything better than four Hybrid.

I know this flies in the face of what some of our members think but in my opinion what I say is the truth as I know it.

 

[sol-leks]

Thanks. On Battery Junction the rayovacs are only 7.50 or something like that. Although their shipping is quite high. Just checked, and TD seems about the same. AAA eneloops are also almost twice the price of rayovac lsds.

I guess I could just wait for my next trip to costco.

 

[Mr Happy]

I don't have any AA size cells to test, but I do have some AAA size Rayovac Hybrid cells. When I test them on the C9000 compared to eneloops the eneloops reliably achieve 800 mAh in a discharge test and the Hybrids make 650 mAh. This seems at least in part to be due to greater voltage sag in the Hybrids. I can eke another 30 mAh or so out of them if I do a second discharge at 100 mA, whereas the eneloops when discharged have nothing more to give.

I would imagine by extrapolation that the AA size Hybrids also have slightly higher internal resistance and greater voltage sag under load than eneloops do. In non-critical applications you may not notice this.

There are some other points of difference. Eneloops have been proven to hold a decent charge for 3 years or more. Hybrids probably not, but in the six month range this is not something likely to concern you. Eneloops have also proven to maintain good performance over many charge cycles and years of use. Hybrids less so, but their performance is still probably as good as any typical 2000 mAh cell in this regard.

 

[sol-leks]

I don't have any AA size cells to test, but I do have some AAA size Rayovac Hybrid cells. When I test them on the C9000 compared to eneloops the eneloops reliably achieve 800 mAh in a discharge test and the Hybrids make 650 mAh. This seems at least in part to be due to greater voltage sag in the Hybrids. I can eke another 30 mAh or so out of them if I do a second discharge at 100 mA, whereas the eneloops when discharged have nothing more to give.

I would imagine by extrapolation that the AA size Hybrids also have slightly higher internal resistance and greater voltage sag under load than eneloops do. In non-critical applications you may not notice this.

There are some other points of difference. Eneloops have been proven to hold a decent charge for 3 years or more. Hybrids probably not, but in the six month range this is not something likely to concern you. Eneloops have also proven to maintain good performance over many charge cycles and years of use. Hybrids less so, but their performance is still probably as good as any typical 2000 mAh cell in this regard.

Thanks this really helpful.

 

[PlayboyJoeShmoe]

I realize that and understand my M*g85 and ROP HI may not be as bright as they could.

But then those lights are more for fun.

I use LEDs. And in THAT application I see no major issue.

Besides, I only have a total of four Eneloop. It would be hard to do any head to head comparisons. Would need at least two more.

 

[Bones]

...

Eneloops have also proven to maintain good performance over many charge cycles and years of use. Hybrids less so, but their performance is still probably as good as any typical 2000 mAh cell in this regard.

Although my interest tends towards comparisons of low self-discharge cells, this ad hoc shoot-out between a regular chemistry 2200mAh Energizer NiMH cell and a Duracell 2000mAh low self-discharge NiMH cell is pretty conclusive as to which is the better chemistry insofar as general performance is concerned.

http://gizmodo.com ... battlemodo-energizer-vs-duracell

I couldn't determine whether the Duracell that was used was a re-badged Eneloop or a Hybrid, but I would imagine that both would perform equally well in this particular test.

If it was any company other than Energizer, I would almost feel sorry of the negative hits they keep getting on these influential gadget sites.

Oh, check out the comments for an overview of the general perception of alkaline versus rechargeable cells.

 

[PlayboyJoeShmoe]

I cannot explain why LSD Duracells ran a light almost twice as long as a non LSD Energizer of 200 more mAh.

However the Duracells will certainly power the light a year later.

2200 Energizer MIGHT hold charge a few months.

Any Energizer or Duracell non LSD NimH of more than 2300 mAh in my experience are pure crap.

In any AA app more than 4 I use Rayovac Hybrids. In 2 cell app it could be 2x Hybrid, Hybrio, Eneloop, Duraloop or Kodak and I can detect no difference between those 4 worth notice.

 

[sol-leks]

Thanks for all the input!

 

[KiwiMark]

There is also a brand called titanium.

How do these other brands compare? Thanks

I have some Titanium 2100 LSD NiMH cells and I have tested them - they aren't very good. I also have some Eneloops and some Imedions - those are both good.

The Titanium cells have a very high internal resistance and are really only useful for low drain devices - they also don't like a very high charge rate.

 

[PlayboyJoeShmoe]

Update.

I charge all my batteries in one of three chargers. A C Crane Quick Charger (which will do discharge as well), a Duracell 4 postion with segmented LEDs from 1-4 to shaow charge state. Takes about 4 hours or so. And the charger that came with Eneloops that is also 4 position and takes about 4 hours.

A week ago I had 2 ea pairs or Kodak and Rayovac to run my GPS.

Rayovac ran it all day, kodak did not.

I'm going to cycle Kodaks in the C Crane and see if this is an ongoing problem.

Still trust Hybrids completely!

Only have four Eneloop and they have never given me any doubt. Ditto the four or eight Duraloops I have.

 

[PlayboyJoeShmoe]

I put the four Kodak in the C Crane about 11:30A before going to Houston.

Here now at almost 6P they have at least 30 more minutes to go.

Makes me think it took a while to discharge them.

Don't really know what to think at this point.

Still trust the Hybrids to do the job!

 

[alfreddajero]

I have 20 titanium lsds and they seem to work well for my lights......i charge them at 1.6amps. But then of course when i got them you had to cycle them many times to bring the mah up, but for the price i didnt mind working with them at all.

 

[ewok8]

Might be little OT here, but I was at a Costco today (Jan 7,2010) and they had the genuine Enelopp bundle with 8-aa, 2-aaa, charger and all those goofy looking C&D things, and the total price was aroung $18.99.
The same aisle had a Made-in-Japan set of white-topped "Duraloops" 8-aa plus charger for about the same price.

 

[joeparker54]

Playboy, in regard to kodak precharged batteries, I can say based on personal experience, that they are the worst LSD batteries I own. While I've been too lazy to log discharge curves, but it seams that eneloops (and even ROV 4.0s) maintain a higher voltage during discharge.

 

[Eugene]

I have 16 of the Titainium 2100 low self discharge and last charge one of them leaked white stuff over my c9000. I have most of it cleaned off but I assume that one is bad.

I use eneloops for all my gear but buy someting else for kids toys so we don't get them mixed up. I'm thinking of maybe getting the maha imedeons.

 

[PlayboyJoeShmoe]

I'm gonna go ahead and agree with you joeparker.

Some of my Kodak have swelled (or the plastic shrunk).

For a time they worked as well as any other LSD NimH in my GPS.

But the other week when two pair of Kodak would not last all day I was reminded of Energizer 2500 behavior!

 

[KiwiMark]

I have 16 of the Titainium 2100 low self discharge and last charge one of them leaked white stuff over my c9000. I have most of it cleaned off but I assume that one is bad.

I use eneloops for all my gear but buy someting else for kids toys so we don't get them mixed up. I'm thinking of maybe getting the maha imedeons.

I have Eneloops, Imedeons & 4 Titanium LSDs:
Eneloops are good of course
Imedeons are also good and not that much different to the eneloops
Titaniums have noticeably higher internal resistance and get hot during charging at the same rate which doesn't heat up the other two.

If you really need some batteries that look different to the Eneloops then I would recommend going with the Imedions - they should serve you well.

 

[Nubo]

Considering the frustration and number of junky NiMH I threw away in the past, Eneloops were an epiphany. They just work. In all respects, everything I could hope for. So I think many are understandably reluctant to experiment with other brands, because Eneloops are already so darn good.

That being said, since I needed LSD C and D cells, I tried the Accupower version and they have been quite good also.