LunaSol 27 Advisory

[McGizmo]

Hi guys,

Well bummer! As of this typing, there are now two reported cases out of about 130 lights where the Nichia ring became non functional after a short period of time. I have not seen these lights yet but I suspect that the BBM converter has died.

The BBM converter is a new design but it is based on a tried and true circuit, the Bad Boy. The LunaSol 27 program was held up for a while due to some problems and issues with this converter. There were some errors in assembly of the converters and the boards were re run a couple of times.

There was an unusually high rate of DOA converters and this was ultimately determined to be due to an inductor used which turned out to be out of compliance, in many cases. A new inductor was procured and the converters were reworked with the inductors being replaced. Because the assembly of the mother/daughter combinations of converters is so time consuming, I tested 100% of both mother and daughter on the bench prior to assembly because it is not uncommon to have a small percentage of DOA converters. I built the lights with converters which tested out properly in function and tested the assembly at a number of steps moving towards completion. All of the lights were shipped in proper working order.

Now there are two suspected cases of BBM's which have failed shortly after use. Suspected only because I have yet to confirm the problem on the bench. I have informed both parties that I will take the lights back for full refund or replace the converters if that is in fact what is required.

After receiving the first report of a problem, I was bummed and told myself that if there were a second report sounding like the same problem that I would place an alert here on the forum to advise you guys of the situation.

I want to alert you to this for a number of reasons. First and foremost, it seems to simply be the right thing to do. Second, some of you may not use the lights if they are intended for the shelf and I would ask that you do use them so if you should have one with a "compromised" BBM, we can identify it now and get the situation corrected.

Wayne has tested the circuit extensively at this point and it is a sound and solid design and any problems would be an exception and not the rule. For my peace of mind as well as yours, I would like to identify any of these exceptions and get them removed from the population as soon as possible. It would be just like Murphy if the two now reported was the full extent of this and it turned out this advisory served no further purpose.

Although I offer no written or implied warranty on these "experimental" and limited offerings, I will stand behind them to the best of my ability. I wish I understood the failure mechanism here but these wonderful solid state drivers and circuits are simply beyond my ken.

It is not uncommon to have DOA converters but the infant mortality in a few of these BBM's is a new experience for me. The demand of the 6 Nichias being driven at 18 mA in series is not a big demand on this circuit and it is well below its capacity in driving the LED's as I understand it. I have complete confidence in the driver and this is supported by many months of using some with no issue whatsoever. For what ever reason, it seems that a couple bunk units got out the gate undetected and I hope that we can identify those ASAP and remove them. Of significance and comfort to me is the consideration that those converters which have failed have done so very quickly if not immediately (which would be the ideal case, if there is to be a failure)

Well sorry guys and although I have nothing but confidence in these lights, should this alert cause any of you undue concern regarding your lights, I will be happy to take the lights back for full refund.

I may be premature in posting this alert and causing some undue concern but I want to nip this in the bud so we can move forward. If there are some bad bad boy mothers out there, let's round them up and get rid of them.

 

[Dog Chaser]

What a great way of handling this. You wouldn't see this kind of a post from most manufacturers these days. Well done Don.

 

[LouRoy]

I've used mine every day since I got it and it has been working fine so far. Thanks for making these great lights and also for standing behind any potential problems. :thumbsup:


My guess (hope) is that only a few lights will have this problem.

 

[The Coach]

Thanks for the heads up Don. I will climb down to the vault, turn on the anesthesia gas to knock out the crocs and get the light and start using it. :devil:
:thanks:

 

[Groundhog66]

Awesome Don, good looking out.:twothumbs

 

[blitzlicht65]

Are this two lights used with RCR123 or CR123?


Greetings

 

[McGizmo]

Are this two lights used with RCR123 or CR123?


Greetings

I don't know the answer to this question but it shouldn't make any difference whatsoever. The BBM is a boost converter and typically needs to raise the output voltage to about 19 volts to drive the Nichia ring.

 

[JohnTz]

I have used mine with both RC123 and primaries. Have gone through three charges so far and one primary change. So far so good.

 

[dat2zip]

Some information would be helpful if it fails.

When it failed was it when you first turned it on or was it running and then stopped?

Also, what was the battery state (estimated) when it failed.

Wayne

 

[Hodsta]

Nothing can be guarenteed to work 100%, 100% of the time, be it something as complex and expensive as a NASA project or as simple and cheap as a paper clip.

This does nothing to undemine my faith, to the contrary, thanks for the heads up and the sterling way issues are being managed.:thumbsup:

 

[gswitter]

I've already passed this info on to Don, but I'll post it here as well...

My Nichia ring went out after roughly 3 minutes of total usage.

At the time of failure it was twisted on to constant low, and had been on for a minute or two. I pressed the piston to momentary high for a couple seconds. When I released the piston (back to constant low) the Nichia ring was out. I don't know if the Nichias were on for those particular few seconds on high, but they were lighting up in both low and high earlier in the evening, and I had switched from constant low to momentary high and back a number of times previously without issue. Prior to failure, the light was operating as expected in both low and high, and the Cree continues to operate fine now.

The battery (Surefire) was not new. It measured 3.0v on my multimeter and 60% on my ZTS immediately after failure. I subsequently tried an unused CR123A (Panasonic) and a nearly charged RCR123 (AW, measured 4.1v), but I haven't gotten the Nichia ring to light up since.

My LunaSol will be in the mail to Don on Monday.


I'll also add that I have nothing but respect for Don's and Wayne's work. I probably own a combined twenty McLux, Aleph and McLuxIII's and fifteen or twenty other lights with Wayne's converters. This is the first that I can recall giving me any trouble whatsoever. Minor issues like this are inherent in any development process, and since I've never been dissatisfied as their customer or in their responses to other problems reported on CPF, I really wasn't concerned with this issue in the slightest. I have no doubt it will shortly be resolved.

 

[souptree]

One primary SF CR123A used down to failure and no problems so far. I did notice the light seemed to flash as the battery got too low. Is that the anticipated behavior?

 

[yaesumofo]

Several RCR 123 cycles now with no evidence of any sort of problem.
I did notice that when using a rcr123 the light was a bit sudden in turning off...No warning. This has happened only once I have replaced the battery before total discharge since.
Is there a low voltage warning? I suspect that may have been the battery's protection circuit which kicking in...
My lunasol is perfect so far.
Don thank you for being upfront about this. We all know that these are experimental lights. I also know that You would never want 100+ lunasol users out there running around with lights which were about to fail. That to deal with this as early as possible is the best thing to do.
I hope there are no more failures.
It sounds to me as though this failure happened very early in the life of this Lunasol. Hopefully we can count on the driver being a good one if the light has had several batteries run through it.
I am sure that when you are able to post mortem the driver the cause of BBBM's will be apparent.
Yaesumofo

 

[:)>]

Some information would be helpful if it fails.

When it failed was it when you first turned it on or was it running and then stopped?

Also, what was the battery state (estimated) when it failed.

Wayne

Mine is the 2nd one that Don mentioned. I received it and played with the light a bit during the day. I would activate the Nichia's and then activate the high beam every so often.

When it was dark, my wife and I were walking out Bloodhound and I had the light turned on to the low level. It was also on for around 3 minutes, and it just flickered, dimmed and then went out; the high was not on at the time that the Nichia's went out.

I was running a Surefire primary and I would estimate that the battery was between 85 and 100 percent.

I would not have posted here because I prefer to deal privately with these matters to avoid any possible negative press for Don; as usual, Don always takes the highest of all possible roads and bathes even small problems in the full light of day. It is funny, but I find that troubles like this only serve to increase my confidence in his lights; my confidence in his lights is undoubtedly due to my confidence in him.

Don is a rare breed:thumbsup: and I mean that in the best possible way.

 

[dmdrewitt]

Thank you for sharing this information Don :thumbsup:

 

[EricMack]

Ran a two hour run-test on the N-ring (Low) last night: no issues of any kind. Followed it up with a 40 minute run-test on High; again, no issues of any kind other than opting to stop due to the head getting pretty hot. Not too hot to touch, just very warm. Was using a SF primary.

Thanks for the straight heads-up Don, and standing behind these beauties. :thumbsup:

 

[bf1]

Don,

Thanks for the notification and the professional way in which you run your business.

Regards,

bf1

 

[McGizmo]

Thanks for the input guys and the support. I believe in the LunaSol concept and plan to continue with it as you will see in the coming weeks and months. I believe the BBM is sound and it will be the foundation I plan to base further work on. I don't pretend to understand the nature of some of the problems the BBM has experienced to date but they seem to all relate to issues with specific components and in a small minority at that and not with the design or circuit itself. The fact that the converters required rework may have brought a few components beyond their limits?

This probably has no bearing on the situation at hand but I recall talking to a LED distributor well before the high power LED's came out. We were discussing the early death of some LED's in the field and he brought up ESD damage and told be that in many cases, solid state components could be subjected to ESD damage which would not cause failure at that moment (catastrophic) but that the part might function a while longer and then give up the ghost for no apparent reason, later on.

Those of you in the field know the extents the industry goes to protecting these components from ESD, starting with the materials used in shipping and storage as well as the work space and ESD mats and such.

I once sent a boat builder some of my Tri-cluster LED fixtures (simple 12V series with resistor- 3mm LED's). He called to tell me that 4 of 6 fixtures were dead when he first fired them up on the boat after installing them. This was really odd but in talking with him, while the electrician was going about installing components, others were buffing the gelcoat on the new boat. I knew from personal experience that a buffer on gelcoat can set up some significant static electricity and we agreed that it was possible that some how these LED fixtures were exposed to this while being handled. It was a long shot but nothing else made sense either. My only point here is that some weird poop can happen! The Tri-Cluster is a very simple and straight forward circuit and yet something killed it?!?! :thinking: :shrug:

 

[:)>]

My only point here is that some weird poop can happen! :thinking: :shrug:

Well said Don!

For the uninitiated, "poop" is a technical term that only the most experienced builders understand fully. I have learned to not dwell on matters beyond my grasp and I marvel when I have an opportunity to hear this kind of jargon!

For the record Don, I have an electric personality and it is beginning to make sense to me that this may have caused the premature demise of the Nichia's.

 

[kenster]

Still on my first Panasonic CR123. No problems.

Don I want to thank you for posting this thread. In the 1st post you stated...

"I may be premature in posting this alert and causing some undue concern but I want to nip this in the bud so we can move forward."

This may be a premature alert but cause undo concern??? Actually, I believe this thread might help folks see things my way. Not much to be concerned about when purchasing McGizmo products IMHO. Why??? Because McGizmo is concerned about his products folks purchase! :thumbsup:

Ken