M-60 Malkoff Running Off Single AW 18650

[TKO]

I conducted a very un-scientific test into the runtime of the M-60 on one of AW's protected 2200maH 18650's.

The battery was fresh off the charger (vbat 4.2V) and the light was set up in candle mode. I then "observed" periodically while racing on my kids X-box 360:devil: At one hour 23 minutes I "thought" I could see a difference, so I popped out the battery and Vbat was 3.78, so I must have been pretty darn close to the switch over to direct drive from regulation.

This compares pretty well to the 1 1/2 + hours listed for two C123's on Gene's website.

Like I said . . . very un-scientific, but I no longer feel that a single 18650 is not a viable alternative to a couple of C123's with Gene's excellent product.

 

[jbviau]

Thanks--cool info. If you're feeling unscientific later on at some point, maybe you could try a 17670 too?

 

[TKO]

Thanks--cool info. If you're feeling unscientific later on at some point, maybe you could try a 17670 too?

I don't own a 17670, but gettin all un-scientific, again :naughty:. . . taking a ratio of minutes/advertised maH; I would guess your runtime to be about one hour even before going out of regulation and into direct drive.

 

[Bullzeyebill]

I don't own a 17670, but gettin all un-scientific, again :naughty:. . . taking a ratio of minutes/advertised maH; I would guess your runtime to be about one hour even before going out of regulation and into direct drive.

At the current draw of the Malkoff M-60 you will have minimal runtime at 4.2 volts. Gene's M-60 is optimized for 6-9 volts, and has a buck driver. You are better off running it with two RCR123's, or running it in a three CR123 body, using three CR123's or two 17500's.

Bill

 

[copperfox]

At the current draw of the Malkoff M-60 you will have minimal runtime at 4.2 volts. Gene's M-60 is optimized for 6-9 volts, and has a buck driver. You are better off running it with two RCR123's, or running it in a three CR123 body, using three CR123's or two 17500's.

Bill

What do you mean by "minimal runtime"? TKO just did a test and it was 1.4 hours before it dropped out of regulation. I don't consider that minimal. I'd be interested in how much runtime there after the regulation drop off point.

 

[Yoda4561]

It runs in full regulation from 3.8 to 9 volts, so it probably just dropped out of regulation after 1 hour and probably would have plenty of time after that before the battery was fully drained. Do you have an exact diameter for those batteries? My surefire G2's tube measures 17.4mm/.68 inches. Would be nice if I could squeeze an 18mm battery in there without boring the tube out.

 

[copperfox]

From what I've read Yoda, 18650 will not fit in the G2, but 17670 will. 18650s don't fit in my 6PD.

 

[LukeA]

From what I've read Yoda, 18650 will not fit in the G2, but 17670 will. 18650s don't fit in my 6PD.

Might be worth it to bore them out. The capacity gains are pretty significant.

 

[Yoda4561]

The only thing stopping me from considering the long batteries was regulated runtime, since that's apparently not an issue it's something to consider for sure. Will measure the C2 when it gets here, maybe I'll get lucky or something with the I.D. A 17670 test would be nice though, looking around it seems that they're supposed to be around 1500-1800 mah compared to 1800-2200 for the 18mm batteries. If they can deliver 1 full hour in regulation I can live with that.

 

[roymail]

Bill's recommendations are based on real data and experience. You may get some useful runtime with a 3.7v rechargeable but the M60 is not optimized for that. I would guess you may get better results with the M60L since the draw is only 350ma. I'd stay with 6v or better.

 

[PhantomPhoton]

It should run in regulation until the vbatt drops under the Vf of the LED. Then you're just in direct drive which will get dimmer and dimmer but still run for awhile. At least this is what I've concluded from my observations. Now for great runtime I use 2 18650s. :naughty:

 

[jbviau]

Since this thread started I've read in a few places that Gene is taking requests for a version of the M60 that's designed to run in regulation on one CR123A or one 18650/17670. Yaesumofo has one of these custom M60s in a SF 3P, I remember. There was a review thread about it.

 

[txgp17]

I bought one of the Leef 2x18500 bodies for Surefire lights, and some AW 18500 cells.

I did a run test with my M60, and got about two hours of runtime. I would run it for 20, let it cool for 10, in cycles. Total runtime was (about) 2 hours.

The light never got dim. The protection kicked in and the light suddenly went dark.

 

[Dead_Nuts]

Since this thread started I've read in a few places that Gene is taking requests for a version of the M60 that's designed to run in regulation on one CR123A or one 18650/17670. Yaesumofo has one of these custom M60s in a SF 3P, I remember. There was a review thread about it.

Now that is definitely interesting. But the current module is already rated up to 9v, so 2 17500's in a 9P/G3 (which is what I assume you meant) is already possible. I have my newest M60 in a weapon mounted 9P using primaries. Maybe I'll try it out tonight on a pair of 17500's. What do you think the runtime difference would be? [1400ma @ 9v vs. 1500ma @ 8.4v).

 

[Dead_Nuts]

I bought one of the Leef 2x18500 bodies for Surefire lights, and some AW 18500 cells.

I did a run test with my M60, and got about two hours of runtime. I would run it for 20, let it cool for 10, in cycles. Total runtime was (about) 2 hours.

The light never got dim. The protection kicked in and the light suddenly went dark.

That is why I don't like rechargeables in my critical use lights. Plus my rifles usually have storage spaces for 123's or AA's

 

[Yoda4561]

That's because the M60 runs in regulation until it drops below 3.8 volts, which for a rechargable is less than 2v per cell. If it's a single cell though there should be a decent amount of non-regulated dimming between 3-3.7v. Hopefully there will eventually be a proper high-cap safe rechargable option that's voltage compatible with LED dropins.

 

[RGB_LED]

Since this thread started I've read in a few places that Gene is taking requests for a version of the M60 that's designed to run in regulation on one CR123A or one 18650/17670. Yaesumofo has one of these custom M60s in a SF 3P, I remember. There was a review thread about it.

There's another thread where we discussed that Gene does indeed have an 'M30' 3v drop-in and I also received an e-mail from him that he is currently working on an M30, 3v med-output dropin as well... check it out here:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=194879

... The Malkoff M30 is not available on his website. If you want one you have to contact Gene and requested it. It looks identical to the M60 except for the engraving- rather than M60 you have: M30,1-4.5v. Ideal for a 3.7 volt single cell.

How does the M30 compare to the M60 when powered by a single 18650?

Lightbox:
M60 = 3300 lux
M30 = 4190 lux

Amp Draw:
M60 = .88 amps
M30 = 1.1 amps (after 2 minutes)

Runtime:
M60 = over 1.5 hours regulated / over 3.5 hours total
M30 = ran for 1 hour and 57 minutes before shutting off. No noticeable drop in output during the run. ( ran for 1 hour and 19 minutes on a 17670 before shutting off)

The M30 runs noticeably warmer (not hot) than the M60.
Cheers, Frank

 

[michelkenny]

Bill's recommendations are based on real data and experience. You may get some useful runtime with a 3.7v rechargeable but the M60 is not optimized for that. I would guess you may get better results with the M60L since the draw is only 350ma. I'd stay with 6v or better.

According to this thread, 1 x 17670 performs longer than 2 x RCR123A. Of course 2 x CR123A primaries go the longest, but if you're using 2 x RCR123A then you'll gain some runtime on 1 x 17670. Plus the light won't shut off midway.

(2) AW 750 mah RCR123's in the Surefire C2 + M60 ran for 38 minutes before shutting off. In a second test with different RCR123's it ran for 41 minutes before shutting off.

(1) AW 1600 mah 17670 + SF C2 + M60 ran for 3 hours before I shut it off - it was very dim at that point. At the one hour mark I pulled the cell and measured the voltage - 3.78 volts. Roughly 1 hour of regulated output and 2 hours of declining output.

(1) AW 2200 mah 18650 + Leefbody + M60 ran for 3.5 hours before I shut it off (had to go to work) it was dim but not as dim as the 17670 test - probably would do 4 hours+. At the 1.5 hour mark I pulled the cell and measured the voltage - 3.83 volts. Over 1.5 hours of regulated output and 2 - 2.5 hours? of declining output.

 

[jbviau]

Thanks, RGB. I knew I'd read about that M30 somewhere.

 

[RGB_LED]

Thanks, RGB. I knew I'd read about that M30 somewhere.

np. I'm hoping to hear more about the M30 / M30L (only a guess as to what it will be called) from Gene soon.