M4 & M6 rechargeable mod options

[AvroArrow]

After recently building my first hotwire (Mag85) I'm kind of... well... not exactly addicted to hotwires, but they have definitely peaked my interest in incan lights, like being a flashlight newbie all over again. I managed to pick up an old Surefire M4 and M6 for a good deal and now I'm looking at rechargeable options since both of those lights have a voracious appetite for batteries. The M4 came with 1x MN60 & 5x MN61 lamps and the M6 only came with 1x MN20 lamp.

Now, I've already read the awesome Lithium-ion > Incan guide by mdocod :bow: . That guide answered a lot of questions I had but I've still got a few more questions, which is why I'm posting this.

Are there no decent rechargeable options for using the MN61 bulbs? In his list, the MN61 can be run on 3x 17670s, but will have a very short bulb life. Anyone know how short is short? Like 2hrs worth or something? He also lists it as able to run on 3x IMR16340 but no other comments after that. Would it be the same result as running it on 3x17670s? Would I be better off trying to sell/trade the MN61s on BST for another bulb that's more Li-ion friendly (e.g. with some decent bulb life)?

Next, anyone know if mdocod's 2x18650 M6 battery holder can be modded into a 3x17670 holder with a few extra parts? I know FiveMega makes a really nice turnkey one (I've got a couple of his 9xAA>3D adapters), but he's completely sold out and there's no ETA on the next run (or if there will even be a next run). There are already a few WTB ads on BST for them, but it looks like no one wants to sell theirs so my chances of getting one are pretty low at this point. After seeing what the WA1185 looks like in my Mag85, I'd really like to try it on the smaller sized M6 or even use the LF HO-M6R bulb if I'm feeling cheap.

I know there are a lot of 2x17670/18650 bulb options, but I've already got the M4, 2xAW17670s, & MN20 for that setup. It's just the higher powered 3x17670 setup I want to try out. I know that I can also run a 6xRCR123 setup to power a LF HO-M6R or WA1331>bi-pin socket, but I'm not too keen on the idea of running 6xRCR123. Besides, I don't have 6 identical RCR123s anyway.

Any tips and help would be appreciated by this incan newbie.

 

[Illum]

I've blew two MN61s on my first attempt on 3x17670s....I have not tried again. ymmv

Since the MB20 battery holder is in 3s2p configuration, 6xrcr123A via MB20 = 10.8V 1500mah. 3x17670 via FM holder = 10.8V 1600mah

since the 18650s have a different diameter than 17670s...I don't think theres a way to change over.

the last two runs of 17670 holders required the organization of an interest thread to project the necessary demand for FM to reference his productions off of.


for the M6...try here
SureFire M6 rechargeable options – SHOOTOUT


for the M4...try here
M4 mods...how to get more lumens?

 

[AvroArrow]

Illum_the_nation,

Thanks for info. Looks like I should try selling/trading the MN61s since they'll get no use from me.

As for the 6xRCR123 config, it wasn't the voltage I was worried about, it was the mixing and matching of cells. I've got 3x AWRCR123, 3x no-name unprot. RCR123, 2x black/gold unprot. RCR123s from AW. I'm thinking it's probably not a good idea to be mixing those in the MB20 battery holder... for my own safety. If I had 6x AWRCR123s, I'd probably give it a go, but I don't.

Thanks for the links. The M6 shootout thread by DM51 was what got me interested in the M6 in the first place. The M4 thread is new to me though, thanks.

Cost is also a factor as I'm trying not to blow my money all at once. For the M4 I'm thinking of leaving it as it is with MN20+2x17670 for now. It's rechargeable and works well and I don't have to spend more money on it. I can always pick up a LF EO/HO-M3T lamp later when the MN20 blows.

The M6 is what has me scratching my head about how to mod it. My cheapest option would be to buy 6x AW RCR123s (so they'd be more evenly matched than my used AW RCR123s) and a LF HO-M6R bulb. Next setup up would be the batteries plus FM bi-pin>MN+WA1185, but I'm not sure how well the RCR123 would handle the current draw of the WA1185 bulb, even in a 3s2p configuration. But when it comes time to recharge, it's going to suck since I only have one WF-139 plus a Nano charger. That's why I wanted to go with the 3x17670 holder option, less recharging and I already have 3x AW17670s.

With the FM 3x17670 holder being currently unavailable, my M6 options are limited to the 2x18650 setups. The brightest setup is probably [2xAW18650]+[mdocod 2x18650 holder]+[FM bi-pin>MN socket]+[WA1111]. Not exactly cheap, but I guess good high powered mods are never cheap. The 3x17670 holder+WA1185 setup would have only been $13 more for me since I already have the batteries, but alas, that's not feasible currently.

 

[mdocod]

I'll try to give a few ideas and suggestions to think about here:

For the M6. If you decide to go with 6 RCR123s to drive a bulb, consider using the IMR16340s instead of the protected RCR123s, you'll be able to drive more powerful lamps if you want safely (should run an 1185 without any problems, in theory, I would rest the cells after charging to reduce the chance of instaflash on that setup). The HO-M6R is a favorite amongst many people as it is a nice balance of output and runtime in the configurations that involve 3 li-ion cells in series. Sounds like LumensFactory has in the works an "IMR" bulb that would run in this setup and be rated ~1000 bulb lumen.


The lack of consistent availability on the 3x17670 adapters really has me thinking I should start building those... ehhe...

-------

For the M4, 2x17670 (since you already have a bunch) is probably the best option. As you have found, the MN20 does work here, but you might be better served by a EO-M3T or MN16, both of which will be driven harder on the 2xli-ion cells and run a little brighter, while having about the same power consumption... the HO-M3T and EO-M3T are often praised for their wonderful beam shape, the MN20, in many peoples experience (including mine) produces a less than pleasing very flat oval beam shape. (though some people prefer this....)

 

[Mike D]

mdocod,

I would be second in line to buy a 3x17670 battery holder behind AvroArrow if you ever wanted to make this happen.

I am in the same boat as he is with a new to me M6, that is right now running one of your 2x18650 holders and a bi pin holder with a wa1111. I love this setup, but like Avro would really like to have the option of running more batteries for bulbs like the wa1185.

 

[maroast]

The lack of consistent availability on the 3x17670 adapters really has me thinking I should start building those... ehhe...

Please do! Please do! Please do! Please do! Please do! Please do! Please do! Please do! Please do! Please do! Please do! Please do! Please do! Please do! Please do! Please do! Please do! Please do! Please do! Please do! Please do! Please do! Please do! Please do! Please do! Please do! Please do! Please do!

 

[AvroArrow]

Hey, hey, hey you guys, I was in line first if mdocod ever makes a 3x17670 M6 battery holder. I'll volunteer to be your beta/prototype tester, I'll even pay for the prototype. Seriously though, it doesn't look too difficult to modify the 2x18650 unit to 3x17670, add another delrin rod w/screws & nuts, add another copper strip for the 3rd cell, presto! Please keep in mind this is the opinion of someone with no machining skills beyond what I do with a dremmel, so I don't know the true difficulty & effort required to construct something like this.

Back to the topic, thanks for your thought mdocod, it gives me more to consider for my M6 build. Like you mentioned, the M4 is pretty straight forward with 2x17670 and a MN20, EO/HO-M3T, or MN16. Yes, I noticed the oval hotspot with the MN20, kind of like the oval spot from my FM Strion'ed A2.

As for the M6... going with 6x IMR16340s in the stock MB20 carrier is probably safer than 6x prot. RCR123s and would allow me to run the LF HO-M6R bulb for some decent lumens (~700 bulb lumens) that rivals the stock MN21 on primaries. This looks like my cheapest option at $61+S/H.

Now this may be a newbie question, but would the 6xIMR16340 + MB20 setup instaflash a WA1185? The reason I ask is that in mdocod's guide, a WA1111 can be powered by 2x18650 prots but would instaflash on 2xIMR18650s. Why is that? I know that the IMRs can feed a higher current, but isn't it the bulb that determines the power draw from the batteries? Keep in mind that I'm still a hotwire newbie so maybe it's something obvious that I'm making an incorrect assumption about.

The odd thing is I found a thread by adamlau that showed him running the WA1111 on 2xIMR18650s and a MN21 on 2xIMR18650s (I don't think they are the AW IMR18650s if that makes a difference). The MN21 looked brighter. Would the MN21 on 2xIMR18650s be brighter than the 6xIMR16340 w/HO-M6R? That setup is the next step up in cost for me (2xIMR18650 + 2x18650 holder + MN21). I also read mdocod posting in another thread mentioning something about running a WA1185 on 2xIMR18650s. I wonder if that would be the same brightness as a WA1185 on 3x17670s or would the 2xIMRs underdrive the 1185? Because if it's the same brightness, then there's no need for the 3x17670 holder if the 1185 can run off 2x IMRs.

Jeez.... this is all so exciting and confusing at the same time. I feel like a newbie all over again.

 

[Mike D]

Now this may be a newbie question, but would the 6xIMR16340 + MB20 setup instaflash a WA1185? The reason I ask is that in mdocod's guide, a WA1111 can be powered by 2x18650 prots but would instaflash on 2xIMR18650s. Why is that? I know that the IMRs can feed a higher current, but isn't it the bulb that determines the power draw from the batteries? Keep in mind that I'm still a hotwire newbie so maybe it's something obvious that I'm making an incorrect assumption about.

The odd thing is I found a thread by adamlau that showed him running the WA1111 on 2xIMR18650s and a MN21 on 2xIMR18650s (I don't think they are the AW IMR18650s if that makes a difference). The MN21 looked brighter. Would the MN21 on 2xIMR18650s be brighter than the 6xIMR16340 w/HO-M6R? That setup is the next step up in cost for me (2xIMR18650 + 2x18650 holder + MN21). I also read mdocod posting in another thread mentioning something about running a WA1185 on 2xIMR18650s. I wonder if that would be the same brightness as a WA1185 on 3x17670s or would the 2xIMRs underdrive the 1185? Because if it's the same brightness, then there's no need for the 3x17670 holder if the 1185 can run off 2x IMRs.

Jeez.... this is all so exciting and confusing at the same time. I feel like a newbie all over again.

Great questions, I eagerly await the experts answers.

 

[pete7226]

With 2xIMR18650 the 1185 would still be underdriven and would probably be on par with the Wa1111, but yellower. 1185 needs 10+ volts to really shine.

 

[zx7dave]

+1 on the 3x17670 holder...not real thrilled with the ones I have...rod down the middle is so thin it will likely have a short life span.

 

[gsnorm]

+1 on the 3x17670 adapter!

 

[mdocod]

Hey, hey, hey you guys, I was in line first if mdocod ever makes a 3x17670 M6 battery holder. I'll volunteer to be your beta/prototype tester, I'll even pay for the prototype. Seriously though, it doesn't look too difficult to modify the 2x18650 unit to 3x17670, add another delrin rod w/screws & nuts, add another copper strip for the 3rd cell, presto! Please keep in mind this is the opinion of someone with no machining skills beyond what I do with a dremmel, so I don't know the true difficulty & effort required to construct something like this.

It would be a total re-work for 3 cells, but I already have a design pretty well and figured out that would work really nice... I was able to buy an M6 with funds from selling a lot of 2x1850 adapters, so I can now actually prototype M6 stuff myself

As for the M6... going with 6x IMR16340s in the stock MB20 carrier is probably safer than 6x prot. RCR123s and would allow me to run the LF HO-M6R bulb for some decent lumens (~700 bulb lumens) that rivals the stock MN21 on primaries. This looks like my cheapest option at $61+S/H.

The MN21 on primary cells is slightly brighter than an HO-M6R. Most people estimate by judgement with their eyes that the MN21 is about 10-25% brighter than the HO-M6R, which makes perfect sense considering the way the 2 are rated. (SF uses an average torch lumen, LF uses a bulb lumen at a specific voltage rating)....

Now this may be a newbie question, but would the 6xIMR16340 + MB20 setup instaflash a WA1185?

It might, This is new territory here so I don't know if anyone has tested it. Like I was saying before, I would be tempted to rest those cells (LiMn chemistry cells will generally settle to ~4.10V after a few hours) before trying them on an 1185, and be ready to loose a bulb in the name of science.

The reason I ask is that in mdocod's guide, a WA1111 can be powered by 2x18650 prots but would instaflash on 2xIMR18650s.

My conclusion there was based on insta-flashing 3 64250s on 2x Emoli 18650s. (Emoli = IMR = LiMn)

Why is that? I know that the IMRs can feed a higher current, but isn't it the bulb that determines the power draw from the batteries? Keep in mind that I'm still a hotwire newbie so maybe it's something obvious that I'm making an incorrect assumption about.

It's all a factor of resistance. A high current bulb is designed with low resistance in order to get that high current to flow. There are several contributing factors to the resistance in an incandescent flashlight circuit. You've got electrical contact resistance (points where 2 separate metallic pieces touch to complete the circuit), you've got switch resistance, battery adapter resistance (if applicable), aluminum tube resistance (very low), bulb resistance, and very importantly, CELL resistance. A Bare LiMn chemistry Li-Ion cell is going to have less electrical resistance than a protected LiCo cell for many reasons. When the electrons are allowed to flow more freely from the cell, without as much restriction in the cell, then there is less voltage loss in the process.

The odd thing is I found a thread by adamlau that showed him running the WA1111 on 2xIMR18650s and a MN21 on 2xIMR18650s (I don't think they are the AW IMR18650s if that makes a difference). The MN21 looked brighter. Would the MN21 on 2xIMR18650s be brighter than the 6xIMR16340 w/HO-M6R? That setup is the next step up in cost for me (2xIMR18650 + 2x18650 holder + MN21).

The MN21 on a pair of IMR18650s pushes the bulb pretty hard, I would estimate that this setup is ~1000-1400 bulb lumen. The HO-M6R on the 6xIMR16340 pack would be right around that 600-900 bulb lumen range on the 6xIMR cells. Keep in mind, that the 2xIMR18650>MN21 setup is going to have ~13-15 minutes runtime, while the 6xIMR16340>HO-M6R will run for pretty close to 30 minutes....

I must again caution though, I personally have only tested the MN21 on Emoli brand LiMn cells, and I always rest them till they are ~4.11V or less per cell before using them. When I was first experimenting with this setup I was terminating the charging early on purpose but finally grew some balls and let it charge all the way up.... but I still can't bring myself to drop a freshly charged set on the MN21, I'm fairly confident it would flash it... AWs IMR1650 cells may very well have better over-all performance than the Emoli cells, which may lead to an increased chance of bulb failure in this configuration. So keep that in mind..

I also read mdocod posting in another thread mentioning something about running a WA1185 on 2xIMR18650s. I wonder if that would be the same brightness as a WA1185 on 3x17670s or would the 2xIMRs underdrive the 1185? Because if it's the same brightness, then there's no need for the 3x17670 holder if the 1185 can run off 2x IMRs.

I don't think I would have ever suggested to run 2xli-ion cell to drive an 1185, if I ever did I certainly never meant to, it would be a waste of electricity to bother. Instead of the 1200+ bulb lumen you get from 3 li-ion cells, you might get 300-400 bulb lumen instead, but it would still be using 21 watts to do so... and would be quite yellow.... A lower power bulb choice driven properly could use less power and be brighter.

Jeez.... this is all so exciting and confusing at the same time. I feel like a newbie all over again.

 

[mdocod]

I was going to say.... that with LF coming out with it's new IMR line of bulb in the near future, an 1185 alternative will be available that should leave some more bulb life on the table when used in 3x17670 and 3S2PxIMR16340. I know that a number of people have had problems insta-flashing 1185 bulbs, so the LF bulb might be a more conservative option (might not be quite as bright, based on my initial understanding of the bulb)... But this bulb would probably further increase demand for 3x17670 adapters.... hmmm...

 

[brunt_sp]

Let's have the IMR 17670.

 

[DM51]

Good thread! A ton of well-considered questions from AvroArrow, and I concur with the answers given above by mdocod.

With the advent of AW's IMR cells, the SureFire M6 rechargeable options – SHOOTOUT thread is now showing quite a few gaps in the range of available possibilities. At that stage, the options were mostly limited by the current the cells could take safely; but now, if you have IMR cells, current drain on the cells is no longer a problem. It is now a matter of what voltage the bulb will take before instaflashing. Remember, some of the high-current options worked OK with LiCo cells because of voltage sag. The voltage quickly dropped to a level which would not flash the bulb. Quite a few people nevertheless reported 1185s flashing on 3x17670, which showed the bulb was probably right on its limit with fully-charged cells. With IMR cells, there will be much less voltage sag, so all the bulbs will burn brighter on them – and all will have a correspondingly (often dramatically) shorter life. That would apply not only to the 1185, but among the others you mention it would also apply to the MN21 with 2x IMR cells and the MN61 with 3x IMR – the bulbs won't last long at all, and at ~$30 a pop that will be painful…..

However, there are the new Lumens Factory IMR-rated bulbs/LAs which are due to be launched shortly, as mdocod says. These are specifically designed to work with the high-current cells, and the possibilities will be opened up once again.

For the time being, until you manage to get your hands on a 3x17670 holder, I would suggest a HO-M6R bulb using the stock MB20 holder and 6x AW RCR123 (please don't mix cell types). It's a very fine option for the M6.

 

[Sgt. LED]

Well I hope they can figure out that 3 IMR bulbs are not going to be enough.

AW is selling alot of batteries to only have LF make 3 bulbs..........

I realize that there are other uses for the cells too!

 

[Illum]

DM51, I think we may have overlooked something else in relating to the M6

zx7dave drew up a possibility of driving the M6 with 6x17500s...as recovered from a long dormant idea

I have seen threads from back in 2006 where there was discussion for using 6 17500 batteries inside a M6, but there was a tail-cap mod involved because of the length of the battery pack. as seen here http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=109823 more info here http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=112889&page=5
That still seems like one of the best scenario's for power for the M6, but there doesn't seem to be much interest out there.

thread here: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?p=2737599

 

[zx7dave]

I have run three IMR16340's in a M3T with the WA1185 without issue...in theory the three IMR17670's would also be fine without the instaflash...

 

[AvroArrow]

With 2xIMR18650 the 1185 would still be underdriven and would probably be on par with the Wa1111, but yellower. 1185 needs 10+ volts to really shine.

Good to know. And I was worried about my 9xAA Eneloop pack measuring 13V hot off the charger instaflashing in my Mag85 build. It was really bright and white.

It would be a total re-work for 3 cells, but I already have a design pretty well and figured out that would work really nice... I was able to buy an M6 with funds from selling a lot of 2x1850 adapters, so I can now actually prototype M6 stuff myself

Awesome. Is there like a M6 owner's club that we need to sign up at?

The MN21 on primary cells is slightly brighter than an HO-M6R. Most people estimate by judgement with their eyes that the MN21 is about 10-25% brighter than the HO-M6R, which makes perfect sense considering the way the 2 are rated. (SF uses an average torch lumen, LF uses a bulb lumen at a specific voltage rating)....

I've read somewhere in the incan forum that a really rough guestimate of torch lumens is to multiply the bulb lumens by 2/3. If this rule is roughly correct, then a 700lm HO-M6R would give roughly 467 torch lumens. So that would collaborate with Surefire's 500 torch lumen rating of the MN21 on primaries.

It's all a factor of resistance. A high current bulb is designed with low resistance in order to get that high current to flow. There are several contributing factors to the resistance in an incandescent flashlight circuit. You've got electrical contact resistance (points where 2 separate metallic pieces touch to complete the circuit), you've got switch resistance, battery adapter resistance (if applicable), aluminum tube resistance (very low), bulb resistance, and very importantly, CELL resistance. A Bare LiMn chemistry Li-Ion cell is going to have less electrical resistance than a protected LiCo cell for many reasons. When the electrons are allowed to flow more freely from the cell, without as much restriction in the cell, then there is less voltage loss in the process.

So basically I'll have to control what battery setup is best suited for certain bulbs because the bulb will self destruct/instaflash if I power it with high current capable batteries like IMR/LiMn chemistry cells. Too bad we can't get Willie Hunt's LVR regulator, that would make life soooo much easier for hotwire builds. I'm surprised that there hasn't been an offshore knock-off of his regulator made yet. Maybe it's just not a big enough target market?

The MN21 on a pair of IMR18650s pushes the bulb pretty hard, I would estimate that this setup is ~1000-1400 bulb lumen. The HO-M6R on the 6xIMR16340 pack would be right around that 600-900 bulb lumen range on the 6xIMR cells. Keep in mind, that the 2xIMR18650>MN21 setup is going to have ~13-15 minutes runtime, while the 6xIMR16340>HO-M6R will run for pretty close to 30 minutes....

The 6xIMR16340>HO-M6R setup that you listed sounds like my best option right now for decent bulb life as well as runtime. It also happens to be the cheapest option too. :thumbsup: Thanks!

I don't think I would have ever suggested to run 2xli-ion cell to drive an 1185, if I ever did I certainly never meant to, it would be a waste of electricity to bother. Instead of the 1200+ bulb lumen you get from 3 li-ion cells, you might get 300-400 bulb lumen instead, but it would still be using 21 watts to do so... and would be quite yellow.... A lower power bulb choice driven properly could use less power and be brighter.

I tried searching but I can't find that post now. You didn't exactly recommend it, but just mentioned in passing that it would run. Or maybe I mistook someone's post for yours. I've been doing a lot of reading in this subforum lately so maybe I'm just mixed up.

I was going to say.... that with LF coming out with it's new IMR line of bulb in the near future, an 1185 alternative will be available that should leave some more bulb life on the table when used in 3x17670 and 3S2PxIMR16340. I know that a number of people have had problems insta-flashing 1185 bulbs, so the LF bulb might be a more conservative option (might not be quite as bright, based on my initial understanding of the bulb)... But this bulb would probably further increase demand for 3x17670 adapters.... hmmm...

Yes, I read LF's post about the upcoming IMR-M6 1,000lm bulb. Now that looks like an interesting bulb... especially if it will run on 6xIMR16340s since AW doesn't have any IMR1670s. It would be a great alternative to the more common 3x17670>WA1185 setup, probably longer bulb life too. I'd still want a 3x17670 battery holder though. Run a poll and see how much interest there is in a 3x17670 holder made by you. That way you can judge whether it will be worth the blood, sweat, and tears to make a small run of them for us. :devil:

Good thread! A ton of well-considered questions from AvroArrow, and I concur with the answers given above by mdocod.

With the advent of AW's IMR cells, the SureFire M6 rechargeable options – SHOOTOUT thread is now showing quite a few gaps in the range of available possibilities. At that stage, the options were mostly limited by the current the cells could take safely; but now, if you have IMR cells, current drain on the cells is no longer a problem. It is now a matter of what voltage the bulb will take before instaflashing. Remember, some of the high-current options worked OK with LiCo cells because of voltage sag. The voltage quickly dropped to a level which would not flash the bulb. Quite a few people nevertheless reported 1185s flashing on 3x17670, which showed the bulb was probably right on its limit with fully-charged cells. With IMR cells, there will be much less voltage sag, so all the bulbs will burn brighter on them – and all will have a correspondingly (often dramatically) shorter life. That would apply not only to the 1185, but among the others you mention it would also apply to the MN21 with 2x IMR cells and the MN61 with 3x IMR – the bulbs won't last long at all, and at ~$30 a pop that will be painful…..

However, there are the new Lumens Factory IMR-rated bulbs/LAs which are due to be launched shortly, as mdocod says. These are specifically designed to work with the high-current cells, and the possibilities will be opened up once again.

For the time being, until you manage to get your hands on a 3x17670 holder, I would suggest a HO-M6R bulb using the stock MB20 holder and 6x AW RCR123 (please don't mix cell types). It's a very fine option for the M6.

Thanks DM51, I try to read up a bit and do some homework before posting questions. BTW, it's your fault with that fancy M6 rechargeable options shootout thread that made me go out and buy a M6. It's all your fault that my wallet is lighter. :devil:

Yeah, I don't like the sound of instaflashing $30 bulbs either so for the time being I think I'll be going with mdocod & your recommendation on getting the HO-M6R bulb and 6xIMR16340s for now, and wait and see how LF's IMR specific bulbs turn out.

I've got another question about the instaflashing thing. Would AW's soft starter switch help mitigate this? He's got the C/P/M switch out now and I think he said he's also working on a M6 version too. I like the idea of having 3 levels on this higher powered hotwire builds and if the soft start will help prevent instaflashing with borderline builds, then that's a welcome bonus.

I have run three IMR16340's in a M3T with the WA1185 without issue...in theory the three IMR17670's would also be fine without the instaflash...

The runtime on that setup has got to be super short. Do you even get 10mins out of that setup?

 

[mdocod]

I've read somewhere in the incan forum that a really rough guestimate of torch lumens is to multiply the bulb lumens by 2/3. If this rule is roughly correct, then a 700lm HO-M6R would give roughly 467 torch lumens. So that would collaborate with Surefire's 500 torch lumen rating of the MN21 on primaries.

Yep 0.65 is the generally accepted average for bulb to torch lumens in incan configurations. It does vary depending on a number of factors, but for government work... close enough right?

So basically I'll have to control what battery setup is best suited for certain bulbs because the bulb will self destruct/instaflash if I power it with high current capable batteries like IMR/LiMn chemistry cells. Too bad we can't get Willie Hunt's LVR regulator, that would make life soooo much easier for hotwire builds. I'm surprised that there hasn't been an offshore knock-off of his regulator made yet. Maybe it's just not a big enough target market?

Regulation in some of these setups, that is easy, drop-in, simple, adjustable, etc, would be wonderful... not sure why a good EE hasn't come along and come up with something, they could sell thousands of them....

Yes, I read LF's post about the upcoming IMR-M6 1,000lm bulb. Now that looks like an interesting bulb... especially if it will run on 6xIMR16340s since AW doesn't have any IMR1670s. It would be a great alternative to the more common 3x17670>WA1185 setup, probably longer bulb life too. I'd still want a 3x17670 battery holder though. Run a poll and see how much interest there is in a 3x17670 holder made by you. That way you can judge whether it will be worth the blood, sweat, and tears to make a small run of them for us. :devil:

No need to run an interest thread on them, I get requests every week to start making them... I'm going to start prototyping...

I've got another question about the instaflashing thing. Would AW's soft starter switch help mitigate this? He's got the C/P/M switch out now and I think he said he's also working on a M6 version too. I like the idea of having 3 levels on this higher powered hotwire builds and if the soft start will help prevent instaflashing with borderline builds, then that's a welcome bonus.

The soft-start will help reduce the chances of insta-flashing bulbs on configurations that are right on the limit of the bulbs tolerance. If the bulb is being pushed too hard anyways, then all it will do it delay the instaflash by a few seconds. But it's a great addition to any incan setup as it will always improve bulb life a little bit.




About that 1185 on the 3xIMR16340s, estimated runtime is ~8 minutes give or take. But considering that an 1185 build can now be done in an M3T size flashlight, it's really hard to argue with the runtime problem, it's remarkable IMO

Eric