Mag hotwire question

[charlestt]

Is it worth turing a 2d Mag into a hotwire light ? all of the high power bulbs are 12v rated but i don't know how i can get more than 9v from 2d Mag either in the form of 3aa or 2 lithium cells.

I don't have the tools to bore out the tube so i'm at a dead end at the moment.


Any suggestions ?

Charles

 

[fivemega]

all of the high power bulbs are 12v rated but i don't know how i can get more than 9v from 2d Mag either in the form of 3aa or 2 lithium cells.

The easiest way is pair of AW's protected 18650 in spacer with ROP LO or WA1111
For more brightness and shorter run time (also more risky), pair of IMR 26650 and ROP HO can be used.
Philips 5761 is also another risky option.
Another option is using 6 IMR 14500 connected in series and powering up Hikari 12 volt, 35 watt G4 bulb.
Obviously, aluminum reflector, Borofloat lens and G4 adapter might be necessary.

 

[charlestt]

The easiest way is pair of AW's protected 18650 in spacer with ROP LO or WA1111
For more brightness and shorter run time (also more risky), pair of IMR 26650 and ROP HO can be used.
Philips 5761 is also another risky option.
Another option is using 6 IMR 14500 connected in series and powering up Hikari 12 volt, 35 watt G4 bulb.
Obviously, aluminum reflector, Borofloat lens and G4 adapter might be necessary.

Cheers for that, i have the g4 adaptor and glass lense, and just waiting for a metal reflector to come from china.
Why is the Philips bulb a risky option ? is it because it would be over driven so much ?

 

[Eddie-M]

If you use the philips, a good match is 6AA batteries, never flashed it and it puts out ~1300 lumens. I have flashed the philips on two 18650's. If you use two 18650's then the WA1111 is safe, you will get longer runtime than the philips but at around ~1100 lumens. It is getting hard to fine the WA1111 bulb cheap though, I paid about $10 per bulb recently from lampline. I have not messed with the ROP LO, but it is the easiest build because you don't need the bipin adapter, and it is tough enough for two 18650's and the brightest of the 3 bulbs with better runtime than the philips.

 

[charlestt]

What do you make of the Osram 64275 6v 35w has anyone used one ?

 

[Justin Case]

Post deleted.

 

[charlestt]

Thanks for info, more things to bare in mind, i'll probably go the 6 nimh route as this seems the safest both with batteries and for the bulb..

 

[jcvjcvjcvjcv]

Just keep in mind that with the NiMH route vs the 2x18650 route:

-you will need an expensive battery holder
-you use three times more cells. Sooner or later one of them is going to fail... turning the entire pack obsolete.
-you need two 4-slot chargers to charge the cells (if you charge them out of the holder)

With the 18650 route you only need a simple, cheap, home-made spacer, you only use 2 cells and you only need 1 charger. If one of the cells goes bad, you just dump that cell, buy two new and use the remainder in your single-cell lights.

Also consider the size of spare packs and ease of use when switching packs. With 6xAA you either carry around 6 spare cells that you need to install in the holder when the other pack is empty or you carry around a huge cylinder with a spare pack: 32mm round x120mm
Two 18650's can be carried around very nicely in a box of 40x20x70mm and contrary to the 6xNiMH route you can switch them out in the dark.

Not so long ago I used to have two sets of 9x NiMH for my Mag85 / Mag3xP7 and one set of 3x DX 26500. Now these NiMH sets are having all kinds of trouble. Some cells have a very high self-discharge, others only hold just over half their original charge while others have a very high internal resistance.

I say the cost savings of the NiMH cells don't weigh up against the cost of the holder and my time. If I had to start all over I would definitely go for the 18650 route.

 

[Justin Case]

Just keep in mind that with the NiMH route vs the 2x18650 route:

-you will need an expensive battery holder
-you use three times more cells. Sooner or later one of them is going to fail... turning the entire pack obsolete.
-you need two 4-slot chargers to charge the cells (if you charge them out of the holder)

With the 18650 route you only need a simple, cheap, home-made spacer, you only use 2 cells and you only need 1 charger. If one of the cells goes bad, you just dump that cell, buy two new and use the remainder in your single-cell lights.

Also consider the size of spare packs and ease of use when switching packs. With 6xAA you either carry around 6 spare cells that you need to install in the holder when the other pack is empty or you carry around a huge cylinder with a spare pack: 32mm round x120mm
Two 18650's can be carried around very nicely in a box of 40x20x70mm and contrary to the 6xNiMH route you can switch them out in the dark.

Not so long ago I used to have two sets of 9x NiMH for my Mag85 / Mag3xP7 and one set of 3x DX 26500. Now these NiMH sets are having all kinds of trouble. Some cells have a very high self-discharge, others only hold just over half their original charge while others have a very high internal resistance.

I say the cost savings of the NiMH cells don't weigh up against the cost of the holder and my time. If I had to start all over I would definitely go for the 18650 route.

Not sure why you believe that 6xAA charging is such a hassle. There are several Maha 8-channel chargers that can handle the entire set of cells in one shot. Or you can use a hobby charger to charge the cells while they stay in the holder. Sure, if you don't have the equipment, it'll cost money to get it. But the same holds for Li-ion charging.

A 6AA -> 2D holder, such as from mdocod, is relatively expensive at around $40. But you don't have to ditch the entire pack if one cell goes bad. It's just a holder. You load individual AA cells in the holder. If one cell goes bad, you simply pull it out and put in a replacement cell. This is probably the main difference vs. using 2xLi-ion. Li-ions probably don't need a fancy holder. If you use 2x18650s or 2x26650s, you will need to make a spacer since the D Mag tube diameter is around 34mm ID. You will also most likely need to do a tailcap/tailspring mod to fit the longer cells.

Ease of use in switching AA packs is similarly simple. Remove the spent holder, replace with a fresh, loaded holder.

IMO, the choice of NiMH vs Li-ion could hinge on things like which bulb you plan to use, and hence the current draw and bulb voltage that the cells have to be able to handle, if you need good battery shelf life, and what run time you desire.

For the 5761, Lux Luthor's data shows that the bulb most likely will flash at less than 8.0V, which probably makes 2xLi-ion the wrong choice. If you were going to run a Welch-Allyn 1111, on the other hand, then 2xLi-ion probably is fine (unless they are 2xIMR26500 or larger, making flashing the bulb more likely -- here parasitic resistance in your flashlight can help to protect the bulb from instaflash).

A 5761 draws over 5A, so your AA NiMH cells better be good ones that can deliver the current and hold their voltage under load.

For run time, 6xAA NIMH could hold around 13Wh, vs say at least 20Wh for 2x18650. So you might get 50% longer run time with the Li-ions, if their Vbatt is compatible with the Vbulb you need.

Now if you take the JimmyM regulated incandescent route, then I'd say that Li-ions are definitely the way to go. I'd look into some of the various IMR26650 cells or the e-cig IMR26500s. A simple PVC conduit spacer is all you need to fit these cells in the D Mag tube. With the IMR26500s, a small tail spring trim and sinking the spring at the bottom of the tail cap will let you fit the cells. With the JimmyM driver, there is no concern about matching Vbatt to Vbulb to avoid flashing the filament. So load up the battery configuration to maximize your run time, set the JimmyM driver to the appropriate Vbulb value, and off you go.

 

[charlestt]

Hi Justin thanks for that brilliant explanation, with regards to what i'm after heres a small list.

battery: i have plenty of AA but only cheap trustfire 18650 cells so from what you guys have been saying there no good.
charge: i have the ability to charge both with out issue
bulb: bright as possible, the child in me wants to be able to burn paper at least lol


runtime: doesn't really matter this is only for fun ( 10 mins should do )

 

[jcvjcvjcvjcv]

Not sure why you believe that 6xAA charging is such a hassle.

It isn't, but it requires more chargers. Personally I have three BC-900's and a Maha C808M. I have done a lot of 24 cells at a time charging.

There are several Maha 8-channel chargers that can handle the entire set of cells in one shot. Or you can use a hobby charger to charge the cells while they stay in the holder. Sure, if you don't have the equipment, it'll cost money to get it. But the same holds for Li-ion charging.

Yes, but a simple two slot 18650 charger is much cheaper. Especially if you only plan to use protected cells.

A 6AA -> 2D holder, such as from mdocod, is relatively expensive at around $40. But you don't have to ditch the entire pack if one cell goes bad. It's just a holder.

Oh really? :huh:
I'm talking about the cells that go in there. If one cell fails (isn't hard) you are left with 5 cells. You cannnot just complement that with a fresh cell, so have to buy six new cells. With 2x18650 that is much easier: in case of a single fail: ditch one cell, keep the remainder for use in single cell lights and buy two new. Even from my Sanyo 2700 and PowerEx 2700 packs I've seen a lot of failures. And that includes all kinds of failures: not able to supply high current, high self discharge, not taking a full charge, etc. Still have to see the first AW 18650 fail on me.

You load individual AA cells in the holder. If one cell goes bad, you simply pull it out and put in a replacement cell. This is probably the main difference vs. using 2xLi-ion. Li-ions probably don't need a fancy holder. If you use 2x18650s or 2x26650s, you will need to make a spacer since the D Mag tube diameter is around 34mm ID. You will also most likely need to do a tailcap/tailspring mod to fit the longer cells.

Ease of use in switching AA packs is similarly simple. Remove the spent holder, replace with a fresh, loaded holder.

If you own any mdocod AA > D holders you know you can't just put them in a pocket the way you can put a $1 box with two 18650's in your pocket. Good luck with putting fresh cells into a set of half-gone cells. With 18650's you can leave the holder in the Maglite. You need need a cylinder in there with external diameter of 34mm (Maglite inner diameter) and an inner diameter of 18-19mm to allow for the 18650's. In the same space a single 6AA holder would occupy you can easily keep three sets of 18650's

IMO, the choice of NiMH vs Li-ion could hinge on things like which bulb you plan to use, and hence the current draw and bulb voltage that the cells have to be able to handle, if you need good battery shelf life, and what run time you desire.

For the 5761, Lux Luthor's data shows that the bulb most likely will flash at less than 8.0V, which probably makes 2xLi-ion the wrong choice. If you were going to run a Welch-Allyn 1111, on the other hand, then 2xLi-ion probably is fine (unless they are 2xIMR26500 or larger, making flashing the bulb more likely -- here parasitic resistance in your flashlight can help to protect the bulb from instaflash).

A 5761 draws over 5A, so your AA NiMH cells better be good ones that can deliver the current and hold their voltage under load.

Even if they are good cells they will see a much shorter lifespan at such enormous discharge rates.

Personally I would go with Sanyo Eneloops because of the low self-discharge. These lights often don't see use for somewhat longer periods. Eneloops tend to not die just for sitting unused for a few months.

It's that I already have the 9AA holders; I think I'm going to complement them with 9 Eneloops each. Otherwise I would definitely go with the 18650 route.

EDIT: If runtime is no concern you could look at smaller IMR cells. Stuffing a 2D with that will enable 100+ W bulbs.
Paper can be burned outside with an WA1185 :)

 

[charlestt]

EDIT: If runtime is no concern you could look at smaller IMR cells. Stuffing a 2D with that will enable 100+ W bulbs.
Paper can be burned outside with an WA1185 :)

More info please !! :)

 

[StorminMatt]

Also, I'm not sure if you're stuck on the 2D. But other options might be better. You could certainly fit ALOT more batteries in a 3D, 4D, or 4C light. And if you are willing to go 6D, you just get 6 NiMH D cells, have LOTS of runtime, and be done with it.

 

[Justin Case]

It isn't, but it requires more chargers. Personally I have three BC-900's and a Maha C808M. I have done a lot of 24 cells at a time charging.



Yes, but a simple two slot 18650 charger is much cheaper. Especially if you only plan to use protected cells.



Oh really? :huh:
I'm talking about the cells that go in there. If one cell fails (isn't hard) you are left with 5 cells. You cannnot just complement that with a fresh cell, so have to buy six new cells. With 2x18650 that is much easier: in case of a single fail: ditch one cell, keep the remainder for use in single cell lights and buy two new. Even from my Sanyo 2700 and PowerEx 2700 packs I've seen a lot of failures. And that includes all kinds of failures: not able to supply high current, high self discharge, not taking a full charge, etc. Still have to see the first AW 18650 fail on me.



If you own any mdocod AA > D holders you know you can't just put them in a pocket the way you can put a $1 box with two 18650's in your pocket. Good luck with putting fresh cells into a set of half-gone cells. With 18650's you can leave the holder in the Maglite. You need need a cylinder in there with external diameter of 34mm (Maglite inner diameter) and an inner diameter of 18-19mm to allow for the 18650's. In the same space a single 6AA holder would occupy you can easily keep three sets of 18650's



Even if they are good cells they will see a much shorter lifespan at such enormous discharge rates.

Personally I would go with Sanyo Eneloops because of the low self-discharge. These lights often don't see use for somewhat longer periods. Eneloops tend to not die just for sitting unused for a few months.

It's that I already have the 9AA holders; I think I'm going to complement them with 9 Eneloops each. Otherwise I would definitely go with the 18650 route.

EDIT: If runtime is no concern you could look at smaller IMR cells. Stuffing a 2D with that will enable 100+ W bulbs.
Paper can be burned outside with an WA1185 :)

Of course, one can find cheap Li-ion chargers and expensive NiMh chargers, or vice versa. But if I get a Pila, which I would consider the baseline standard for a quality Li-ion charger that can fit 18650 cells, it'll cost roughly $50. I can get an Accucel-8 hobby charger for a bit less than that. Or an Accucel-6 for half that. Now maybe these relative prices don't hold for the OP's location in the UK. C'est la vie.

If I'm already carrying a big 2D Mag, spare battery volume seems like the least of my concerns. I've carried lots of bulky items on my person. You use the right kinds of carriers. Yes, battery cube/weight can be an issue. However, I haven't seen indication from the OP that it is a big deal. If the OP says that he's in the sandbox humping to some objective, or he's a cop and needs 8 hr run time to cover an entire shift, we all can chime in with revised suggestions.

Yes, there can be cell-cell balance issues when swapping out any cells from a pack. Thanks for the reminder. The point is that individual cells can be changed out. There is no physical barrier to that, which is what I was getting at. I agree that perhaps the more cells you have in the pack, the greater the potential for cell balance issues and individual cell problems. But I'm not sure I see your point. I can also re-use the remaining AA NiMHs in other applications, just as you can re-use the remaining 18650. I can buy four Eneloops on Amazon for about $10, or $20 for eight cells. Yes, you have to buy eight cells to get six, so you overspend in some sense. But $20 is pretty comparable to the price for one AW18650 (-2600, -2900, or -3100).

5A is not an enormous current draw for Eneloops.

In the 2D form factor, I like the WA1111 driven by 3xIMR26500 using a JimmyM JM-PHD-D1 driver. For more lumens in the 2D Mag, you could use the Philips 5761 instead of the WA1111. For higher power, I like the 4D form factor, running 5xIMR26500, powering a Fivemega 1909 bulb. In a 5D Mag, I like running an Osram 64440IRC with 6xIMR26500. The hassle is finding a source for IMR26500 cells. All the above configurations would use the JimmyM driver.

If you are up to it, IMO the JimmyM incandescent driver is the way to go. It eliminates the big hassle of trying to match Vbatt to Vbulb, avoiding instaflashing while obtaining decent overdrive.

 

[jcvjcvjcvjcv]

Yes, but it will also be a $100 expense. But it really is a nice product.

EDIT: If runtime is no concern you could look at smaller IMR cells. Stuffing a 2D with that will enable 100+ W bulbs.
Paper can be burned outside with an WA1185 :)

More info please !! :)

Look up 'Mag623'

 

[charlestt]

Yes, but it will also be a $100 expense. But it really is a nice product.



Look up 'Mag623'

Thanks guys as for price i'm looking for as cheap as possible :) i don't really want to have to buy another 3d Mag there a lot more expensive here than in the US :(

 

[nighttrails]

The 5761 is my most used light, using a 2D mag 2x26650 or a 6D with 6 nimh Ds. Hot off charger both will insta flash. My solution is AW's $75 mag D incan driver. Just run on low or medium for a few minutes before going to high. It also provides a very usable choice of low, medium or high. I mostly run on low or medium. Jimmy M's product would be great too and superior in that it's regulated. AW's is nice because I can use it for various bulbs in the same way, burning off the hot charge on low, without having to set voltage levels. I also like the magcharger bulb. You have to select a bulb that flashes not too much under the max voltage charge of the batteries. Of course if you forget to run low or medium first...poof. Aw's driver is $75 well spent.

 

[Justin Case]

Yeah, the JimmyM driver is less convenient if you want to use it for multiple bulbs with different Vbulb values. But at $30/driver, you could build say 3 modified D Mag switches for just a little more than one AW switch. Are the AW switches available anymore?

 

[Cooper_GTI]

The ROP low (3854-L) bulb will run very nicely off a pair of protected 26650's or 32650's in a 2D. Thats what i do and it's cheap but very effective.

It'll throw a good few hundred yards, has a nice white colour, runs for a good hour and this bulb seems to be indestructable. I use the batteries straight after a charge, i've dropped it, used the head of the mag as a hammer and still the bulb keeps going.

The high bulb, which comes in the same pack, is not as versatile, but is a LOT brighter. I can light up a whole field with this thing, as it's very floody, but will still out-throw the 'pencil like' Low bulb as the amount of lumens this thing puts out is pretty insane. It'll run for around half an hour, but i've been told this bulb is a bit more fragile and is prone to blowing when used with fully charged batteries. Not that mine has, and i've hit it with a fair few 'fresh' batteries'.

Also, to power the high bulb you'd need to either use un-protected Li-ions, or 6xNiMh's, as the protection circuit kicks in before the bulb is able to warm up, meaning you have to keep clicking the button rapidly to get it to fire up. With the High setup you need a metal reflector and a glass lens, but with the low bulb i'm pretty sure you get away with standard parts, or maybe just an aluminium reflector, although an anti-reflective lense is a good investment anyway, as i'm in no doubt that you're standard mag reflector is scratched to buggery!

I'm in the UK too and 'torch modding' really isn't a big thing over here, meaning we often have to get things shipped from the states!

 

[nighttrails]

Yeah, the JimmyM driver is less convenient if you want to use it for multiple bulbs with different Vbulb values. But at $30/driver, you could build say 3 modified D Mag switches for just a little more than one AW switch. Are the AW switches available anymore?

Thanks for pointing that out Justin. Somehow I missed that the JimmyM drivers were so reasonably priced. Going to have to consider a few. AW's switches were available not too long ago, haven't checked lately.