Maglite 6D vs Fenix?? - also, Dereelight vs Tiablo?

[I came to the light...]

I've seen a lot of impressive statistics on many light on CPF and elsewhere, but haven't bought one yet, and am looking for a comparison to what I have seen, and the brightest I've seen is a Maglite 6D.

Anybody own a Maglite 6D and a Fenix P3D Q5, or another 2xCR123 Q5 flashlight? It would be pretty interesting if new technology could compare favorably to a... not up-to-date flashlight, considering how much more battery volume the Maglite has...

PS - I'm looking for comments on lumens, output, and runtime, not quality - I think I'm already decided on that

 

[xiaowenzu]

Re: Maglite 6D vs Fenix??

The top LED lights today are brighter than the MAG 6D. My Novatac 120T and Surefire U2, give out noticably more light than my MAG 6D, when doing the ceiling bounce test. However the still can't touch the Maglite in throw. The Mag kills it!:welcome:

Anyways, it's a balancing act. For super throw you'd want the Mag6D - they're also good for color rendition of outdoor foliages, since an LED would only make things look flat. That's the inherent 'flaw' of LEDS.

If you want a small, easy carry light around the home and throw is not too important get an LED light. I've had my NovaTAC 120T and I use it everyday for trips through my mansion, it's amazing! :thumbsup:

 

[JamisonM]

Re: Maglite 6D vs Fenix??

I've seen a lot of impressive statistics on many light on CPF and elsewhere, but haven't bought one yet, and am looking for a comparison to what I have seen, and the brightest I've seen is a Maglite 6D.

Anybody own a Maglite 6D and a Fenix P3D Q5, or another 2xCR123 Q5 flashlight? It would be pretty interesting if new technology could compare favorably to a... not up-to-date flashlight, considering how much more battery volume the Maglite has...

PS - I'm looking for comments on lumens, output, and runtime, not quality - I think I'm already decided on that

Here ya go.

 

[WadeF]

Re: Maglite 6D vs Fenix??

The top LED lights today are brighter than the MAG 6D. My Novatac 120T and Surefire U2, give out noticably more light than my MAG 6D, when doing the ceiling bounce test. However the still can't touch the Maglite in throw.

You might want to try some fresh D batteries. The Mag 6D with the Xenon bulb is rated around 220 lumens, about twice as much as the Novatac and U2. Now, 15-30 minutes of run time and I'm not sure what kind of lumens the Mag 6D will put out, while the Novatac would still be going strong.

The Fenix P3D Q5 is putting out around 180-200 lumens out the front, according to some tests done by fellow CPF users. It's close to the Mag 6D for total lumen output (The Mag 6D will beat it in the throw department easily), but the Mag 6D will quickly dim and the P3D will keep going strong.

 

[MikeSalt]

Re: Maglite 6D vs Fenix??

On paper, a Mag 6D with Xenon bulb should be brighter than any Fenix offering at 233 bulb lumens.

However, there are several reasons why the Mag falls flat on its face...

1) No regulation - After approximately 10 minutes from fresh, the Maglite will lose CONSIDERABLE output, falling below that of the regulated Fenix.

2) Optical losses - the Fenix uses a quality metal reflector with a high-quality reflective surface. The Mag has merely a plastic reflector which is painted with middle-of-the-road grade reflective material. This leads to losses in reflection. Also, the Mag has a plastic, untreated window, which can be scratched or hazed with age. The Fenix has a glass, anti-reflection window, so this has superior transmission. This leads to more output (torch lumens) from the Fenix.

3) Bulb/Emitter - an incandescent bulb will emit light in all 4*pi directions (including into its own PR base), as a result, majority of the light emitted must go through at least one reflection to exit the window, leading to reflective losses. An LED emitter is directional. The output is emitted in a forward-aimed cone. As a result, much more light escapes the head without going through any reflection losses at all. Interestingly though, whilst this is an advantage in terms of total output, it does mean that LEDs are harder to tune for long throw.

Of course, I have mentioned Fenix, but majority of good quality, or better quality (Novatac, Surefire etc...) LED flashlights are applicable.

 

[adirondackdestroyer]

Re: Maglite 6D vs Fenix??

You might want to try some fresh D batteries. The Mag 6D with the Xenon bulb is rated around 220 lumens, about twice as much as the Novatac and U2. Now, 15-30 minutes of run time and I'm not sure what kind of lumens the Mag 6D will put out, while the Novatac would still be going strong.

Can we really trust Mag's rated output numbers. They claim the 4D is 122 lumens but it only registered a 3800 on Flashlightreviews.com which would put it at less than 60 lumens. I think those numbers listed by Mag are very VERY optimistic at best.

 

[woodrow]

Re: Maglite 6D vs Fenix??

Welcome to cpf! Your two light choices are interesting to me. The 6D and Fenix are about as oposite from each other as you could get. If you want some throw (better than the 6D) and also have a led's runtime and brightness, a Tiablo, MRV or DBS would suit the situation. All (I believe) of these lights can also be had with a Q5 (or 4) and all have low output modes that would give you hours of use as well.

Just my .02

 

[Marduke]

Re: Maglite 6D vs Fenix??

Can we really trust Mag's rated output numbers. They claim the 4D is 122 lumens but it only registered a 3800 on Flashlightreviews.com which would put it at less than 60 lumens. I think those numbers listed by Mag are very VERY optimistic at best.

Lux/output and lumens are apples and oranges, not quite so cut and dry for conversions.

 

[maglitesales.com]

Re: Maglite 6D vs Fenix??

I haven't ever used one of these in my 6D mag to see the difference between it and the Xenon bulb, but there is a 1-Watt LED upgrade manufactured by Nite-ize that fits the 6D Maglites.

http://flashlightsales.com/shop/led...grade-for-2-3-4-5-6-cell-lrb07pr1w-p-562.html

That would help with the discussions about the Mag dying out after 30 minutes (which it certainly would with the incandescent bulb in it).
I'd be interested to know how this LED compares to the Xenon bulb. hmmm...I think I may need to open one up this weekend and see for myself...although I'm not going to be measuring lumens or anything...some of you guys know so much about light output and measurements that it's almost sick! I'm not worthy! :bow:

 

[robo21]

Re: Maglite 6D vs Fenix??

Welcome to cpf! Your two light choices are interesting to me. The 6D and Fenix are about as oposite from each other as you could get. If you want some throw (better than the 6D) and also have a led's runtime and brightness, a Tiablo, MRV or DBS would suit the situation. All (I believe) of these lights can also be had with a Q5 (or 4) and all have low output modes that would give you hours of use as well.

Just my .02

I agree. The Tiablo A9 or Deree DBS would offer better performance and longer run time in a much more convenient package.

 

[WadeF]

Re: Maglite 6D vs Fenix??

Can we really trust Mag's rated output numbers. They claim the 4D is 122 lumens but it only registered a 3800 on Flashlightreviews.com which would put it at less than 60 lumens. I think those numbers listed by Mag are very VERY optimistic at best.

I wasn't sure if their lumen rating was bulb lumens, or lumens out the front. Here are some real world beam shots to add to the equation.

Mag 6D Xenon, fresh cells:


Dereelight DBS 3-stage Q4:


Malkoff in Mag 2D with 3xC baterries. This is his original drop in which runs at 1A, I think his newer one can run at 1100mA with 4 cells, but the difference in output wouldn't be very noticeable:


Also with my Malkoff I can't seem to get as tight of a hot spot as I've seen from some other beamshots. I think his new drop-ins are nicer than what I have, as far as the post the emitter sits on being cleaner and more centerd.

 

[robo21]

Re: Maglite 6D vs Fenix??

I wasn't sure if their lumen rating was bulb lumens, or lumens out the front. Here are some real world beam shots to add to the equation.

Mag 6D Xenon, fresh cells:


Dereelight DBS 3-stage Q4:


The Dereelight's emitter lumens with the Q4 should be in the 240+ lumen range at the current it is being driven at.

Excellent! :twothumbs

 

[Marduke]

Re: Maglite 6D vs Fenix??

I haven't ever used one of these in my 6D mag to see the difference between it and the Xenon bulb, but there is a 1-Watt LED upgrade manufactured by Nite-ize that fits the 6D Maglites.

http://maglitesales.com/maglitestor...sal-1-Watt-LED-Upgrade-for-2-3-4-5-and-6-Cell

That would help with the discussions about the Mag dying out after 30 minutes (which it certainly would with the incandescent bulb in it).
I'd be interested to know how this LED compares to the Xenon bulb. hmmm...I think I may need to open one up this weekend and see for myself...although I'm not going to be measuring lumens or anything...some of you guys know so much about light output and measurements that it's almost sick! I'm not worthy! :bow:

That site is grossly mis advertising that dropin. The NiteIze is very dim, and no where near 1 watt. It's primary purpose is to put out a usable amount of light for a VERY VERY long time. On a 6D, you are talking a WEEK of continuous use. There are many other dropins if you want pure brightness from a Mag

 

[I came to the light...]

Re: Maglite 6D vs Fenix??

Wow, thanks for the comments everyone, and thanks for the beamshots, WadeF - i would have asked for them but didn't want to ask too much!

So it seems like pretty much any Q5 lights is brighter (and better regulated) than a maglite 6D, but doesn't throw as far.

Im glad to see that the standard LED mini throwers throw better than even the Xenon version :twothumbs

Just a question - the MRV, Tiablo A8 Q5 / A9, and Dereelight DBS seem to be the top compact throwers, and the MRV clearly outclassed by the Tiablo. However, I don't know how the Dereelight compares to the Tiablo...

(correct me if i'm wrong about the MRV, but it does seem to be pretty clear...)

 

[greenLED]

Re: Maglite 6D vs Fenix??

That site is grossly mis advertising that dropin. The NiteIze is very dim, and no where near 1 watt. It's primary purpose is to put out a usable amount of light for a VERY VERY long time. On a 6D, you are talking a WEEK of continuous use. There are many other dropins if you want pure brightness from a Mag

That site's probably confusing the NiteIze 1W Lux drop-in for the minimag with the 10mm LED drop in for the larger C and D-celled Mags. No way in hay the 10mm LED is as bright as the Lux.

Marduke does make a great point about runtimes, that I think it's important to keep in mind. The 6D Mag will have a loooooooooooooooong runtime (albeit at decreasing output), even when compared with regulated LED's. It's just a matter of greater battery capacity.

Speaking of which... wouldn't it be great if there were more bright LED lights using C & D cells? Bright and small is OK, but that restricts runtime and once in a while I'd like to have bright light with looooooooooooong runtime.

 

[Gunner12]

Re: Maglite 6D vs Fenix??

...Just a question - the MRV, Tiablo A8 Q5 / A9, and Dereelight DBS seem to be the top compact throwers, and the MRV clearly outclassed by the Tiablo. However, I don't know how the Dereelight compares to the Tiablo...

From what I've seen throw wise, it's MRV<Tiablo A8<Tiablo A8 Q5< Tiablo A9< Dereelight DBS Q5.

 

[WadeF]

Re: Maglite 6D vs Fenix??

Just going from everyone's reports on lux readings, direct visual comparision, etc, the Dereelight has the MRV's and Tiablo's beat, and that was with the older 3-stage Q4 modules. After that there was a 3-stage Q5, and now a 2-stage digital Q5 that's the brightest so far, supposedly. I'll find out when I get mine next week. At this point the Tiablo or MRV would have to be redesigned with a better reflector (for throw) if they are going to compete with the DBS (for throw).

 

[I came to the light...]

Re: Maglite 6D vs Fenix?? - also, Dereelight vs Tiablo

What about the MRV Q5 mod? I've only seen one reviewers beamshots of it, but there it vastly outperformed the Tiablo, and wasn't compared to the Dereelight...

 

[Zenster]

Re: Maglite 6D vs Fenix??

So it seems like pretty much any Q5 lights is brighter (and better regulated) than a maglite 6D, but doesn't throw as far.

Just a question - the MRV, Tiablo A8 Q5 / A9, and Dereelight DBS seem to be the top compact throwers, and the MRV clearly outclassed by the Tiablo. However, I don't know how the Dereelight compares to the Tiablo...

(correct me if i'm wrong about the MRV, but it does seem to be pretty clear...)

Some points:
I don't know what it is in the beamshots above that suggest that the Maglite 6-D throws further than the DBS/Q5 used for comparison.
The brightness of the DBS's hotspot compared to the Maglite is obviously brighter (and larger as well) which would suggest that it would actually have a better throw than the Maglite.

People have to be clear about which MRV they are talking about. The MRV-SE, the A9s and the DBS all use Q5/WC emitters with the same types of batteries, so the only difference you should see between them would be due to how aggressive the manufacture was in voltage used in the module (I think they all go to 1amp max), and then how the reflector is shaped. The "standard" MRV's are great lights, but are not quite in the class of the MRV-SE and the other two lights mentioned.
It's been generally thought of around CPF that the DBS has an edge for throw due to it's reflector.
For my part, I would consider the MRV-SE, the Tiablo A9s and the Duree DBS to be virtually identical for real life uses.

 

[Gunner12]

Re: Maglite 6D vs Fenix?? - also, Dereelight vs Tiablo

What about the MRV Q5 mod? I've only seen one reviewers beamshots of it, but there it vastly outperformed the Tiablo, and wasn't compared to the Dereelight...

With th same LED and drive current, the Dereelight DBS will always throw further. This is due to the larger and deeper reflector of the DBS.

With the right optics, even the Luxeon 1 will out throw the Maglite 6D. Throw is determined by the optic and not totally on the thing that is emitting light.