Malkoff Devices - Maglite LED upgrade - UPDATE - I was wrong - Sorry Malkoff - See OP

[BIG_PAPA]

OK, I recieved with great anticipation my 2 LED Maglite upgrades from
Malkoff Devices today. I opened them up and installed them both, one on a 4 - D and the other on a 3 - D. Unfortunately, from what I can tell inddors in a dark room, I am very dissapointed. These things don't seem any brighter than the $20 LED upgrades from Maglite. Please tell me I am missing something. Please tell me they take a minute to warm up. Please tell me the throw much farther outside. Becuase from where I stand right now I feel like these were a waste of money and they will be going back. But I know that these come highly recommended here, so I must be missing something??

Help!!

UPDATE:

OK, so tonight I went outside to take one more look at the Malkoffs before sending them back. I went to a big field by my house with lightly scattered trees. I used the Maglite LED first. I shined around untill I found a tree far enough away that the Maglite LED just barely gave it light. Then I shut it off and fired up the Malkoff. I shined it at the same tree and it lit up bright. Next I picked a tree far enough away that the Maglite LED couldn't light up. Shined the same tree with the Malkoff and got lots of light on the tree. The Malkoff even seemed to outshine my Fenix TK11 (but it was a close call).

I am sorry Mr. Malkoff for my initial post. Your LED's are most definately brighter than the Maglite LED. I guess maybe I was expecting a little much since i have become spoiled by the throws of my POB's, but for Maglites, Malkoff is the king.

The two things that threw off my initial report (to keep others from making the same mistake):

1. I was equating white light with bright. On a white ceiling or wall, the white looks brighter than the yellow, even though it is not. I guess my eyes have been trained this way over the years, who knows?

2. Look at distance. A brighter light will obviously shine further. Make sure to give the light "legs to run" so to speak and test it with plenty of room. A couple hundred feet is really not enough to really see the difference. I have to guess it is probably around 400 - 500 ft when the Maglite LED loses throw and the Malkoff really shines (so to speak).



Last question and a BIG thank you to all who tried to help me figure this out. Do you think it would be worth it to pick up a 6D maglite to try the Malkoff upgrade in? I found a store that carries them locally today for $27 and I was very tempted to pick it up and try it with the malkoff. Will 6D's make a noticable difference over the 4D version or should I just be happy with what I have. I know the 6D version is too huge to really carry around, but if it shines really bright i think it would be a fun toy.

Thanks again everyone for reading my post and offering support and solutions. :twothumbs

 

[houtex]

Re: Malkoff Devices - Maglite LED upgrade - dissapointing......

tell us exactly which models you received and how you are powering them please.

 

[MrGman]

Re: Malkoff Devices - Maglite LED upgrade - dissapointing......

Maglight "3Watt" LED____,__4 D Rayovac Hybrids,___________71.0_lumens_after only_10 sec__warm up


Malkoff Single for Mag__,__3 C cell Maglight,_______205.6 lumens after 3 second,__178.9_lumens after_60 sec_warm up


I have found the Malkoff single LED drop in that goes into the maglight to be brighter by far than the original Maglight brand 3 watt LED regardless of battery configurations by testing with the integration sphere or light meter system that is far more accurate than my eyes.

However, what you are experiencing, looking at the hot spot on a white wall in the house at short range is not surprising at all.

That relatively small hot spot area of the maglight focused beam versus a much wider area of dim light of the "spill" area saturates your central vision and looking at a light that the hot spot is brighter doesn't seem like much. You need to go outside and look at something further away in the darkness and see that the Malkoff is more than twice as bright (not that your eyes or brain will be able to quantify that but its there.

You also need to make sure your Maglights are not really old and in bad shape such that the contact resistances of your unit's switches is high. If the switch is limiting current flow due to oxidation from age it will also make the Malkoff less bright by that current limiting problem. I have seen this in my flashlight and also read about it here by others.

I don't know what the process is to clean the switch or replace it, its posted here somewhere but not in the LED section.

 

[BIG_PAPA]

Re: Malkoff Devices - Maglite LED upgrade - dissapointing......

1 x Drop-In Module for 2-3 D-Cell to fit Mag-Lite (2-3 D-Cell Drop-In) - Installed in a 3D cell maglite
1 x Drop-In Module for 4-5-6 D-Cell to fit Mag-Lite (4-5-6 D-Cell Drop-In) - installed in a 4D cell maglite

 

[Sgt. LED]

Re: Malkoff Devices - Maglite LED upgrade - dissapointing......

So you've not used the Malkoff at night or outside yet. :thinking:

Use em' and tell us what you think tomorrow morning.

 

[BIG_PAPA]

Re: Malkoff Devices - Maglite LED upgrade - dissapointing......

MrGman,

Yes, I am planning on testing them tonight at longer ranges. I hope you are correct it is just an issue with indoor short distance observation. As far as age, the older light actually appears brighter, so i don't think switch terminals are the issue. Call me crazy, but the 3 cell actually looks brighter than the 4.

I will post an update tonight....

 

[Gunner12]

Re: Malkoff Devices - Maglite LED upgrade - dissapointing......

Which drop-ins did you get?
Are the batteries fresh?

Also remember that it takes 4x the light for one light to seem 2x as bright as another, that is presuming the same beam pattern (with different beampatterns, a floody light could be brighter but seem dimmer next to a more throwy light).

Also what is the amp draw of the drop-in? Someone might be able to compare and see if the numbers are right.

 

[paintballdad]

Re: Malkoff Devices - Maglite LED upgrade - dissapointing......

I agree with MrGMan. I have a MagLED in a 3D Maglite as wel as a 3D Malkoff Maglite. Indoors the Malkoff upgrade seems disappointing and only as bright as a MagLED. Wait till dark, focus both to the best spot you can get and spot a distanct object. Shine the MagLED then the Malkoff Mag, you'll then see why the Malkoff gets high marks around here. I'm happy with mine and looking to put together another Malkoff Mag, a 4-6 D Malkoff in a 2D Mag with 6 NiMH AA batteries :thumbsup:.

 

[Mjolnir]

Re: Malkoff Devices - Maglite LED upgrade - dissapointing......

I had previously owned the Maglite LED module before upgrading to the malkoff. It focuses a much smaller beam than the malkoff, which may make it seem brighter, but it has far less overall output.

 

[MrGman]

Re: Malkoff Devices - Maglite LED upgrade - dissapointing......

MrGman,

Yes, I am planning on testing them tonight at longer ranges. I hope you are correct it is just an issue with indoor short distance observation. As far as age, the older light actually appears brighter, so i don't think switch terminals are the issue. Call me crazy, but the 3 cell actually looks brighter than the 4.

I will post an update tonight....

Do you still have the older Mag LED in one of the units for an actual quick side by side comparison or are you going off of "memory" of what it looked like before you switched to what the new units look like "now"?

Also the 3 cell unit with the boost driver being near the top of its voltage input range could possibly be brighter than the 4 to 6 cell unit with the buck driver being more constantly regulated. That would not surprise me at all.

One easy to do side by side test of the original LED versus a Malkoff unit is to have them both and shine them up at the ceiling but look down at the floor or whatever is below you (bed, couch, whatever) and quickly flip the switches back and forth and see which one "lights up the room" better. Don't look at the ceiling at all. I typically do it in the bedroom and notice the pattern in the bedspread much more easily with the brighter light that is hard to distinguish by just looking at the hot spot beam itself.

G.

 

[etc]

Re: Malkoff Devices - Maglite LED upgrade - dissapointing......

I have both, Malkoff is noticeably brighter.

But doesn't really have a 'wow' factor versus say a P60 drop in.

I haven't used my Malkoff 3D in a year.

The really cool thing about it is that you get incredible runtime vs. a few hours in a P60 host.

 

[BIG_PAPA]

Re: Malkoff Devices - Maglite LED upgrade - dissapointing......

OK guys and gals, I just came in from a night test.

I took my 3D and 4D maglites with Malkoff LED and with Maglite LED. I also took my Husky 2D LED to compare as well.

I went back and forth between the malkoff and the maglite LEDS both on 3 and 4 D lights. I shined them far off on trees. Both side by side and one after the other. I switched bulbs back and forth 2 times. I tried to be as objective as I could.

That being said, I do not see any huge difference that the Malkoffs are brighter. Near the end, I may have seen the Malkoff be a LITTLE bit brighter, but then again, I may have just been trying to talk myself into liking these upgrades. I REALLY want to like these upgrades. I have been waiting for them to come into stock for months.

I do not see where it is worth it to pay $150 for the two bulbs and reflectors for a minimal difference at best. I believe all of you that say the Malkoff is a much higher output, but for my eyes, I just can't see it.

I think I may just do a return request tomorrow and send them back. I am dissapointed, but for the money I can get 2 nice Fenix lights and keep my Maglite LED's which are pretty darn close as bright (as I see it).

I know the Malkoffs are a MUCH better quality with an awesome heatsink that will keep them running at top output longer, and I am not downing them in any way. For many people I am sure they are perfect for your situation, for me however, it just isn't worth it.

 

[MrGman]

Re: Malkoff Devices - Maglite LED upgrade - dissapointing......

well the last question would be what batteries are you actually running? Give Brand name, alkaline or NiMH rechargeables?? Are you sure they are in good shape???

The Malkoff units will run better on rechargeables that will put out more current. They don't have to be the greatest high capacity cells but much better than alkalines. I use the new Rayovac hybrid rechargeables in the single Malkoff Module. They do draw higher current then that MagLED by about double if you have the batteries to deliver it. Alkalines will sag, especially if they are not brand spankin new.

Contacts are all clean in the flashlight housings?

If everything is good power source wise, Gene will take care of you. But I have measured mine and compared it to a 4 D mag with MagLED and I know it is more than twice as bright.

 

[qip]

Re: Malkoff Devices - Maglite LED upgrade - dissapointing......

are your maglites the new rebel led mags ? maybe mag put seoul in their dropins?

either that or something wrong with the malkoff cuz it should definitely be more noticeable

 

[BIG_PAPA]

Re: Malkoff Devices - Maglite LED upgrade - dissapointing......

I am running ever ready alkalines. They are new with expire date of 2015.

The more I look, I think I notice why the Malkoffs appear not as bright.

The Maglite, Husky and Fenix lights all have a very White / Light blue tint.

The Malkoff is a yellowish tint.

I think this is tricking my eyes into thinking it is not as bright.

When I look at the LED's directly (well, not directly cause I would go blind) but when I look at the light coming out of the reflector instead of the light hitting the wall, it is obvious that the Malkoff is brighter.

So why is the Malkoff yellowish and the others white?

 

[gbleeker]

Re: Malkoff Devices - Maglite LED upgrade - dissapointing......

It is known as a "warmer" tint.

 

[PhantomPhoton]

Re: Malkoff Devices - Maglite LED upgrade - dissapointing......

Stick the Malkoff next to an an incandescent bulb and it won't look yellow anymore. Your eyes automatically adjust themselves. Use just the Malkoff for a bit of time and it'll seem plenty white. LEDs come in a variety of color temperatures, and the way our eyes work we're tempted to believe things with cooler (more toward blue) tints are brighter. So your eyes are playing games with you there. The Malkoff is more yellowish because they tend to use premium tint bins whereas you're getting the lottery with lights which are more mass produced. Many people like the tint to be warmer (more yellowish) because it gives better depth perception, especially outdoors. The husky LED should appear around the same as teh Malkoff because it is using a much more modern Cree LED. However the Malkoff should be noticeably brighter than the Luxeon III M@g branded dropin. However remember that eyes work on a logarithmic scale, so twice as bright scientifically measured in lumens doesn't look twice as bright to our eyeballs.

 

[270winchester]

Re: Malkoff Devices - Maglite LED upgrade - dissapointing......

I am running ever ready alkalines. They are new with expire date of 2015.

high powered LED lights need batteries that can supply the current. Ever Ready Alkalines are fine for getting 70ish Lumens but you may want to try the Malkoffs with NiMh batteries.

 

[MrGman]

Re: Malkoff Devices - Maglite LED upgrade - dissapointing......

I am running ever ready alkalines. They are new with expire date of 2015.

The more I look, I think I notice why the Malkoffs appear not as bright.

The Maglite, Husky and Fenix lights all have a very White / Light blue tint.

The Malkoff is a yellowish tint.

I think this is tricking my eyes into thinking it is not as bright.

When I look at the LED's directly (well, not directly cause I would go blind) but when I look at the light coming out of the reflector instead of the light hitting the wall, it is obvious that the Malkoff is brighter.

So why is the Malkoff yellowish and the others white?

I was already to jump on the ahaa the alkaline batteries murdered your Malkoff bandwagon when suddenly I said to my self I said; You can go double check Alkalines versus NiMH in the Sphere O truth right now and make sure.

My new Duracell Procells that they give to Hospitals gave a brighter output by a slim margin then my Tenergy high capacity 5.0 ampere hour rated NiMH C cells. 3 for 3 or each. Your Eveready's may not be up to par with these, but they shouldn't really make that much of a difference unless they are bad and you just don't know it. Swapping batteries back and forth would do it but you said you swapped the LEDs back and forth, If that's what you meant, so that battery back A in Host A wound up driving LED A and the LED B anyway and vice versa? If so then I would say it's not the batteries. If its just not as bright as you think it should be for the money, call Gene.

Here are the readings of my 3 C Cell Single Drop in (Not a P7 type) unit with both sets of batteries in a quick test.

Malkoff Single __Maglight 3 C cell__3 Tenergy NiMH,___228.1__instant peak
Malkoff Single __Maglight 3 C cell__3 Tenergy NiMH,___172.2__60 sec
Malkoff Single __Maglight 3 C cell__3 Duracell Procells_231.5__instant peak
Malkoff Single __Maglight 3 C cell__3 Duracell Procells_173.1__60 sec

My original MagLED starts at 71 lumens and is dropping immediately from there to 50ish lumenettes. But that smaller area hot spot with its white/bluish tint does always look somewhat brighter to my eyes. I know the overall beam is not brighter.

 

[WadeF]

Re: Malkoff Devices - Maglite LED upgrade - dissapointing......

Do you have a battery tester? If the batteries are low in voltage the Malkoff may not be running at full output anymore and may be more in line with the output of the Mag LED's. Just a guess.

You should be 100% sure you're using fresh cells. The Malkoff should appear noticeably brighter than the Mag LED's.

Also did you respond about the condition of those mags? Make sure the contacts are clean, the tailcap threads are clean, etc. I treat my Mags with DeoxIT and you can see a difference even with a brand new Mag that has been treated (an incan mag) as it will put out a brighter and whiter light.

Not sure what's going on with your set ups, but the Malkoffs are much brighter than the Mag LED's when set up properly.