Malkoff M61 in Surefire 618 shotgun light

[wintermute76]

Might be trading for a Malkoff M61 module.
would there be any reason I couldn't run this in a SF 618 weaponlight forearm?
I'm using a P60L now, just want to make sure.

Thanks!

 

[JNewell]

Might be trading for a Malkoff M61 module.
would there be any reason I couldn't run this in a SF 618 weaponlight forearm?
I'm using a P60L now, just want to make sure.

Thanks!

Should be fine, as long as you're using the correct bezel.

 

[mebiuspower]

I'd avoid the Malkoff ... look what happened to this guy with a M2 bezel...

Update: about 400 rounds later - mixed birdshot and reduced-recoil buckshot / slugs, the malkoff device has failed. The lens popped out. I've emailed Gene; I don't expect guarantee on something nearly three years old, but we'll see.

Also the batteries are dented in (hard to see in the pic) and barely making contact with each other - which explains why I wanted to reduce shock inside the casing.

Its certainly possible that the malkoff device - much heavier than the stock P60 / P60L lamp assembly - overpowered the shock ring and slammed into the stops with every shot. So I'll try out a P60L for a bit.

 

[wyager]

I'd avoid the Malkoff ... look what happened to this guy with a M2 bezel...

Malkoff stuff is THE best weapon LED equipment available. Do you have a suggestion for a replacement? Because I sure don't...

 

[mebiuspower]

You can get the LM1 or LM2 from SF.

http://www.surefire.com/LM1
http://www.surefire.com/LM2

 

[wyager]

You can get the LM1 or LM2 from SF.

http://www.surefire.com/LM1
http://www.surefire.com/LM2

Way too expensive, and lower output than the malkoffs... there's a reason why everybody recommends the malkoff dropins IMO.

 

[mebiuspower]

Yes but not for a weaponlight, as shown in the photo it broke.

The LM2 is 200 lumens, how much light output do you seriously need?

 

[wintermute76]

I seem to remember Surefire had a weaponlight specific battery assembly. Basically two CR123 with a spacer in the middle to keep them from battering each other.

Not sure if that would have any difference, I haven't notice any battery battering in mine. the battery tube in the 618 has a lip that stops the batteries from contacting the lamp assembly.
The P60L seems to be holding up fine so far.

Is the M2 a shock rated head?

 

[wyager]

Yes but not for a weaponlight, as shown in the photo it broke.

The LM2 is 200 lumens, how much light output do you seriously need?

Ok, so ONE malkoff had the lens fall off. It didn't really break, the lens fell off. No biggie, it would continue to work fine and then gene's warranty would kick in. It's fine for a weaponlight, and 99% of this forum will agree... I trust them more than anybody on the subject.

 

[ishmael]

I know nothing about the mentioned incident but I can still GUARANTEE that if the person called and talked to Mr. or Mrs. Malkoff about it he was totally taken care of. Malkoff has occasional QC misses as does anyone who does anything, they're still one of the top choices for this application as far as I can discern.

 

[MrGman]

If I remember correctly that shotgun light has a shock mounting for the lamp assembly and is not a good fit for the Malkoff. Its wider and doesn't provide good contact to the Malkoff brass heatsink module thereby insulating it for the most part. the Malkoff that failed in the unit did so because the guy was actually running the light for about an hour straight while using the shotgun. The light got hot due to a lack of heatsinking out to the host, softened up the epoxy and came apart. Not because there was anything inherently defective with the Malkoff itself. If I remember all this correctly, then this is not the mount for a Malkoff LED module. If you put relatively high power LEDs in this unit (4 to 6 watts of actual power consumption) then they will probably overheat and fail also if you actually leave the light on and do a lot of shooting. If you are just going to pulse the light on and off briefly, it will probably fair better. I believe that mount was originally designed for incandescent lamps and provided shock mounting for them, which makes for a poor mount for any LED that need thermal heatsinking.

I know many people who have put Malkoff Lights on a shot gun or rifle and pounded the heck out of them and didn't have this problem because they weren't in that mount. I would not mount the M61 in that rig.

 

[JNewell]

Way too expensive, and lower output than the malkoffs... there's a reason why everybody recommends the malkoff dropins IMO.

+1. And beyond that, although I haven't actually done a tear-down, based on what I can see it seems to me very unlikely that the SureFire drop-ins are as physically or electronically robust as the Malkoff units.

 

[JNewell]

IIRC, the SureFire weaponlights with LEDs use the standard bezel, not the shock-isolated bezel used in the SureFire incan units. I mention this because in addition to the relatively obvious points made by Mr. Gman, it is wasn't even necessary to use a shock-isolated setup.

If I remember correctly that shotgun light has a shock mounting for the lamp assembly and is not a good fit for the Malkoff. Its wider and doesn't provide good contact to the Malkoff brass heatsink module thereby insulating it for the most part. the Malkoff that failed in the unit did so because the guy was actually running the light for about an hour straight while using the shotgun. The light got hot due to a lack of heatsinking out to the host, softened up the epoxy and came apart. Not because there was anything inherently defective with the Malkoff itself. If I remember all this correctly, then this is not the mount for a Malkoff LED module. If you put relatively high power LEDs in this unit (4 to 6 watts of actual power consumption) then they will probably overheat and fail also if you actually leave the light on and do a lot of shooting. If you are just going to pulse the light on and off briefly, it will probably fair better. I believe that mount was originally designed for incandescent lamps and provided shock mounting for them, which makes for a poor mount for any LED that need thermal heatsinking.

I know many people who have put Malkoff Lights on a shot gun or rifle and pounded the heck out of them and didn't have this problem because they weren't in that mount. I would not mount the M61 in that rig.

 

[angelofwar]

Yeah, the Z32's/M2 "shock isolated" bezels aren't really good for LED's...especially high powered Malkoffs. I'm guessing with the heat of the gun plus the heat of the drop-in (with no where to go because the giant airpocket in the shock isolated bezel) probably melted the adhesive that was holding the optic in? That on top of the recoil, "pop". Just a guess. If you go with a regular bezel (Z44) you should be fine with a malkoff. +100 on the Malkoff.

As stated in another weaponlight thread, CPF'ers did some tests and the M2/Z32 heads registered ALOT hotter using a malkoff, cause in addition to above, as Mr. Gman stated, the lack of contact with the brass body and the giant air pocket, the heat has no where to go. Those who don't know JUST HOW hot LED's can really get, have never owned a Lux-V L4...

 

[MrGman]

I still would not trust that SF shotgun mount for the Malkoff. Look at it this way. Elzetta sells their flashlight host and the Malkoff M60, the exact same unit as what failed in that shot gun mount. They sell nothing else but that M60 in their host and they make rifle and shotgun mounts. They have tested the M60 on various rifles and shotguns a lot and have had no problems. This is their primary business. The M60 module can take a lot of physical abuse if its properly mounted into a housing designed to hold it securely and provide a good thermal path for cooling. It consumes about 5 to 5.5 watts of power between the LED and driver and that heat has to get out or else. If its in a loosely held mount, the rattling isn't so bad by itself but if its getting hotter than normal the epoxy is going to soften up, its that simple. The shotgun mount shown in that picture looks like its got a longer host body for a spring load anti shock support for an incandescent lamp module. Maybe I am wrong, but the only Malkoff I have ever seen damaged like this was in that mount shown in that picture.

 

[sween1911]

Stumbling onto this thread at the right time! I've got an older Laser products forend on its way to me for my 870 and I'm very interested in how LED modules perform.

I currently have a Lumensfactory module in my Z3. The "Lumens Factory D26-LED 3.6-13 volt 300 Lumens Lamp Assembly" from Lighthound. I'm thinking of getting another one of these for the weaponlight. Any concerns with durability for this unit in this application? At first, I was thinking I would leave the Z32 shock bezel on their if I run the LED module, but after reading this, I'll use a regular bezel.

 

[donn_]

I have a Titanium Malkoff/VME head on my 870, with a custom Mirage_Man adapter.

It's running a Malkoff M31W on a single CR123. There is no shock isolation other than Gene's gasket at the lens.

I've put over 500 rounds through the gun since I mounted this light, ranging up to 3" magnum slugs. The light still functions perfectly.

 

[sween1911]

That is NICE looking! Goes with the stainless finish on the marine magnum(?) very well! Friend of mine had a 12.5" AOW version of that gun.

 

[angelofwar]

Well, I've since replaced the factory stock...

Old Version:

New Version:

Using ANY LED "drop-In", I'd go with a Z44 (regular bezel)., and with a Shot-Gun, I'd stick with a quality one as well, as 12ga. recoil is A LOT more brutal than 5.56/.223.

A few other options for home defense (i.e. the gun w/ light that doesn't get shot 100 times a year) would be a dedicated LED bezel from SF, including the KL5/KL5A, or in the case of the 918FA (shown above), a KL6. This would work in a jif if needed, but I wouldn't "practice shoot" with it, as these bezels were never sold/tested for use on a weapon, but they should hold up to the 3-4 rounds you may have to put-out in the event of a break-in, etc.

The factory 618 came with an L60 body/Z32 bezel/P60. This pic shows the recommended set-up of the L60 with a Z44 (replacing the Z32 Shock isolated bezel). Please note, fro My experience, the size of the Malkoff makes a tight fit in the L60 body, and you may have to shave the malkoff down for a good fit (or stretch the contact spring).

Shown here with a KL5 on the L60

However, SF is coming out with a replacement for the KL6 (9V Millenium Series LED Head), and this one is advertised as being useable one weapons.

Also, for practice or even special applications, you could use the KX3 (three stage LED assembly found on the GxD-FYL lights)

 

[sween1911]

Great pix and info! That pistol grip setup is nice! I've been using a Remington youth-size stock on my 870P, but also have a pistol grip and have it setup like that from time to time. With proper technique, recoil is manageable and the size reduction is just the thing for inside the home.

So I'm in the process of getting a Z44-HA from CPFM. I might try out my Lumensfactory unit in there. Not sure if I feel like shelling out and hunting down a Malkoff at this point, but that appears the be the ultimate module for this. Maybe I'll see if I can source a P60L seeing as they should be bright enough for the job, and it appears the SF used them in the 618's at some point, so they would support the module's reliability for this purpose.