Maximizing lighting on a Tahoe safely.

[Grebbler]

My first post - please be gentle.

I have a 2002 Tahoe and want the most effective lighting I can reasonably get. I could ask in the various truck forums I frequent but the prevailing trend is to put in illegal/crappy/obnoxious HID kits or blue bulbs. Rather I would ask the people that seem to know light, yes? I list my truck model in case someone here has already gone through this.


Reading Scheinwerfermann's concise and very informative post I was going to get the Philips HIR2/9012 lamps and trim the tabs. However, my housings don't have a filament shield and I refuse to make driving unsafe for others just for my kicks.

So, I am seeking alternatives for my needs.

1. Can I rightly assume that is no readily available coating that I could dip a bulb in?
2. Could I fabricate a shield to hang in front of the lamp? Would the shield have to be a precise shape or distance from the lamp? Is the shield is just to block the forward light or does it provide any reflective or focusing function?
3. Does the fact that my housing does not have a shield mean that the design/geometry is poorly suited to having a shield in place?
4. Would it be worth replacing my housings with a projector style so I could use the HIR2 lamps or would the PX 9006's be enough of an upgrade. I realize "worth" is subjective. I guess I wonder if projectors would provide a significant boost to usable light.
5. As to how lamps are tested, does the HIR2 throw more light than a 9006 because it's "uncapped"? Unlikely but I ask, anyway.

I am not planning to mess with the high beams. They are already sufficient. Plus, I live in a big city and no matter where I go or when I go there or how seemingly deserted the road I am on, as soon as I flip on the high beams another car will immediately come the other way.

Now I address the fog lights. Mine are toy lights using an 800 series lamp. They are THIS style and measure around 7 x 2.75 inches.

After reading other posts here I see that they are just plain junk and no lamp is going to cure this. Also, I prefer yellow so that leaves me with only one lamp choice, anyway. That leave me with replacing them with a similar sized quality light. What should I look for to know it won't be an overpriced under-engineered piece 'o poo? Can I even get a decent light in that form factor?

Electrical or mounting alterations are not really an issue. I just want to keep a mostly stock look and use the stock locations.

These questions are a bit esoteric but I appreciate any info you can provide.

Thanks,

Ed

 

[Alaric Darconville]

My first post - please be gentle.

Welcome! We'll try!

I have a 2002 Tahoe and want the most effective lighting I can reasonably get. I could ask in the various truck forums I frequent but the prevailing trend is to put in illegal/crappy/obnoxious HID kits or blue bulbs.

Yep. I'd no sooner as them for lighting advice than they should ask here for... wait, we have experts in quite a few fields so probably someone here could STILL answer their questions correctly on practically any subject.

Rather I would ask the people that seem to know light, yes? I list my truck model in case someone here has already gone through this.

Good idea on asking here.

Reading Scheinwerfermann's concise and very informative post I was going to get the Philips HIR2/9012 lamps and trim the tabs. However, my housings don't have a filament shield and I refuse to make driving unsafe for others just for my kicks.

I feel like the teacher in "A Christmas Story" writing "A+ A+ A+ A+ A+" on the board (of course, that was in Ralphie's imagination).

Can I rightly assume that is no readily available coating that I could dip a bulb in?

I think that's probably correct. The HIR2 has a fused quartz capsule and I don't think there are any coatings that could provide the light blocking without causing hot spots that weaken it.

Could I fabricate a shield to hang in front of the lamp? Would the shield have to be a precise shape or distance from the lamp? Is the shield is just to block the forward light or does it provide any reflective or focusing function?

It would have to be a very carefully crafted shield and photometric testing would have to be done to ensure it doesn't interfere with the light output. In a nutshell: No.

Also, the bulb shield provides NO focusing function. It is ONLY a shield.

Does the fact that my housing does not have a shield mean that the design/geometry is poorly suited to having a shield in place?

It could mean that, or it could mean that the assumption that blacktopped bulbs would be used with it (considering that it's designed for a 9006, which is always tipped with some sort of coating whether black or silver, that's fairly valid a guess).

Would it be worth replacing my housings with a projector style so I could use the HIR2 lamps or would the PX 9006's be enough of an upgrade. I realize "worth" is subjective. I guess I wonder if projectors would provide a significant boost to usable light.

Whoaaa -- someone who used "I wonder" without a question mark at the end! Very rare! (One of my pet peeves is when someone says "I wonder why X?" when "I wonder why" is a statement.)
I'd say that projectors can give better control of the light, but there are good and bad projectors and there are good and bad reflector/lens combinations.

As to how lamps are tested, does the HIR2 throw more light than a 9006 because it's "uncapped"? Unlikely but I ask, anyway.

No, it throws a lot more light because of the much, much higher filament luminance.

Judging from my (subjective) experience with the Philips X-Treme Power in both a 2001 Corolla low beam (9006), and in a dual-filament bulb in a 1995 Previa (9003), the X-Treme Power will be a significant upgrade (if the lenses are clear and the lamps are aimed properly.

 

[MichaelW]

If I remember correctly, the '02 tahoe/suburban shut off the low beams when the high are engaged, so did you fix that?

If you make a custom harness, you could just stick with 9006/HB4 in you low beams, and then put HIR1 in the highs.

What about adopting the Yukon Denali headlights, shouldn't they fit? [or do you also have to change the front grill]
(projector lows-HB3 & reflector highs-also HB3)


If you want HIDs
http://suvlights.com/product_info.php?products_id=212&osCsid=7be56bdb90a602351ba981108a99f8f8

 

[Alaric Darconville]

If you want HIDs
hxxp://suvlights.com/product_info.php?products_id=212&osCsid=7be56bdb90a602351ba981108a99f8f8

No, please, no.

Here's why.

MichaelW: Surely you read the very forums you post in...

 

[Diesel_Bomber]

I'm a big fan of Hella modules. Retrofitting required, but well worth the hassle in most instances.

 

[-Virgil-]

My first post - please be gentle.

Welcome to the board!

I have a 2002 Tahoe and want the most effective lighting I can reasonably get.

That would be these Valeo-Sylvania HID headlamp assemblies, properly engineered as HID headlamps. Second preference would be the halogen version, which has a bulb shield and uses an H11 low beam bulb rather than 9006 -- the H11 produces 350 lumens more than the 9006, and has better filament precision. Another poster pointed you at these lamps via SUVlights. In this particular case, he pointed you at a legitimate product from a disreputable vendor worth avoiding (factory rejects sold as "second generation improved" lamps, etc.). Better to get the lamps directly from the maker, even if it costs a few bucks more, thereby avoiding SUVlights' scummy business practices and avoiding any warranty "issues".

I could ask in the various truck forums I frequent but the prevailing trend is to put in illegal/crappy/obnoxious HID kits or blue bulbs.

Sounds like you already know those are dumb ideas.

was going to get the Philips HIR2/9012 lamps and trim the tabs. However, my housings don't have a filament shield and I refuse to make driving unsafe for others just for my kicks.

That is a wise decision; good for you. Also, even if your headlamps had a bulb shield, they're not very precise optically; you'd still have a pretty sloppy beam pattern.

Can I rightly assume that is no readily available coating that I could dip a bulb in?

Yes, there's no off-the-shelf coating material you could successfully apply to the bulb. If you want to experiment with mixing up your own blacktop material and dip-coating bulbs, read US patent #4391847.

Could I fabricate a shield to hang in front of the lamp?

Practically speaking, no.

Would it be worth replacing my housings with a projector style so I could use the HIR2 lamps

There's no legitimate projector type lamp for the Chevrolet version of the GMT 800 platform. There's toy junk for the kiddies; avoid it. The projector lamps used on the GMC Yukon Denali are pretty good, but they don't fit the Chevrolet.

does the HIR2 throw more light than a 9006 because it's "uncapped"?

No.

Now I address the fog lights.

Just leave them turned off and pretend they don't exist. See this previous thread. There's no good fog lamp in the stock form factor. You could put in Hella Micro DE units; bracket fabrication/modification would be required.

 

[-Virgil-]

No, please, no.

Here's why.

That post does not refer to the lamps in question. It refers to the Sylvania (not ValeoSylvania) Xenarc lamps sold as replacements for round and rectangular sealed beams. The scammy way in which SUVlights sold them after buying them off Sylvania (after Sylvania pulled them off the market once they finally twigged to the damage they were doing to their own reputation) is good reason to avoid SUVlights, but that's about all that's applicable from that debacle to this situation.

 

[MichaelW]

No, please, no.

Here's why.

MichaelW: Surely you read the very forums you post in...

Grebbler already said he does not want cheap/crappy/obnoxious HID kits.
So sometimes if helps if you have more items on your crossed off list.
They are so ancient anyway.

 

[Alaric Darconville]

That post does not refer to the lamps in question. It refers to the Sylvania (not ValeoSylvania) Xenarc lamps sold as replacements for round and rectangular sealed beams.

I stand corrected.

 

[Grebbler]

Thank you for the warm welcome and all your quick and detailed replies to my post.

Please allow me to re-cap the answers so I am not too confused.

>>If I remember correctly, the '02 tahoe/suburban shut off the low beams when the high are engaged, so did you fix that?

I didn't realize it was broken.

>>If you make a custom harness, you could just stick with 9006/HB4 in you low beams, and then put HIR1 in the highs.

Ah. Are you saying I can use my high beams as supplemental low beams with these lamps? Will the beam pattern compliment the existing lows? Please correct me if I am wrong but isn't the HIR1 lamp and open-top design as well which would project glare into oncoming traffic?

>> There's no legitimate projector type lamp for the Chevrolet version of the GMT 800 platform. There's toy junk for the kiddies; avoid it. The projector lamps used on the GMC Yukon Denali are pretty good, but they don't fit the Chevrolet.

Bummer.

If I have all this sorted, my options in ascending order regarding better lighting and cost are:

1. Rig high-beams for use as supplemental low-beams using HIR1 lamps. (This option does not seem right to me and I would lose high-beams.)
2. Use PXP 9006 lamps in the existing lights. (around $50)
3. Install XESighting halogen reflector style lights using H11 lamps (around $300).
4. Install XESighting properly engineered HID lights (around $500).

All I ever see are the junk HID's around here and I would have to see a comparison to warrant spending that much.
Option 2 is in the realm of possibility but a comparison would still help the decision.
I believe that my current lamps are china blue coated junk with a crappy beam pattern I bought at a flea market when I was more naive and option 2 may be enough for now, but my other vehicles don't use 9006's so I would be stuck with them.

When you compared the H11 to the 9006 lamp, were you referring to stock or the XP 9006 lamp and did you mean a stock or boosted H11 lamp?

Do you consider the XESighting H11 reflectors a better design than stock GMT800 lights all else being equal?

Fog Lights: While you suggested a round fog lamp - I would hope something like THIS would be a marginal improvement that would fit in the existing openings. My daily commute involves a dark and narrow winding road through marshland where fog is common and any improvement to see the faint line and the edge of the road would be a great help.

Pardon my density. I just like to be sure I am understanding all this correctly and spending money wisely.

Again, thank you for the replies and information and I welcome other replies to help my decision. I am rarely provided make and model links to items what will work!

Ed

 

[tay]

What he meant about the re-wiring was add a relay harness so that when you switch to highs, the lows don't turn off.

Now, lowbeam lights up the 9006 and highbeam lights up the 9005
Some people like to rewire so that lowbeam lights up the 9006 and highbeam lights up the 9005 and the 9006.

It's more lighting on the highbeams, but the same on the low-beams.

Also, don't forget to make sure that the lenses are clear and not yellow or scratched, and check the voltages to make sure the bulbs are getting full voltage. If they're not, the existing wiring is too thin and should be augmented with a harness.

 

[FA5Si]

Painless Wiring sells the necessary harness for converting to a quad high-beam set-up.

 

[MichaelW]

GM's thinking, (and many others) years ago was that you decrease your near field illumination, so that your attention is put further down the road (which is now lit up by the high beams)

That was acceptable, say for 1950-1960's, but is completely outmoded. The only valid reason would be to prevent an overload of the near field, but that just wreaks of bad design.

So, try your truck, see if you low beams are extinguished when you engage high beams.
(If the switch is make-before-break, you can see what it is like to have four bulbs simultaneously burning. pause/wait, now insert your smile here)

So, my suggestion.
Make your own harness (or purchase) to get as much voltage to your bulbs.
Make it so the lows stay on (it takes like one diode)
Keep a 9006/HB4 as your low beam (take your pick, HB4+30, 9006 long life, the bulb you already have, etcetera)
Dump the HB3/9005 high beam (don't actually throw it away), and replace with HIR1/9011 (be very precise when trimming the base keys)

That should satisfy you. (especially on high beam):devil:

 

[Alaric Darconville]

If I remember correctly, the '02 tahoe/suburban shut off the low beams when the high are engaged, so did you fix that?

I wish on my 01 Corolla that the low beams would go out when the high beams are on (unless I'm using the "flash" function, then all four lamps would be OK). It's near-field vision overload for me!

 

[-Virgil-]

If I remember correctly, the '02 tahoe/suburban shut off the low beams when the high are engaged, so did you fix that?

I didn't realize it was broken

It's not broken, as such. The reason the low beams switch off with the highs is to avoid excessive foreground light (i.e., light on the road surface close to the vehicle) that tends to cause your pupils to constrict, reducing your distance vision. It's a theoretically valid principle; the philosophical debate is the actual level of foreground light above which the benefit of the extra down-the-road light from the low beams is cancelled out. The regulations are no good as a guideline; they call for lamp sets like yours to turn off the lows with the highs, but they call for lamp sets with HID low beams -- which tend to produce MUCH more foreground light! -- to leave the lows on with the highs (so as to avoid a "black hole" while the Xenon lows warm back up when they're switched back on). All of this verbiage boils down to it being OK to keep your lows on with your highs if you want. But I'm not sure how important that is to you; most of us don't use our high beams anywhere near as often as we use our lows.

If you make a custom harness, you could just stick with 9006/HB4 in you low beams, and then put HIR1 in the highs.

Ah. Are you saying I can use my high beams as supplemental low beams with these lamps?

NO! High beams are high beams and cannot be converted into anything else. They are never safe (or legal) to use in traffic. Furthermore, there is no custom harness required to upgrade the high beams with HIR1 (9011) bulbs, which draw the same amount of current and take the same socket as the standard HB3 (9005) high beam bulbs.

If I have all this sorted, my options in ascending order regarding better lighting and cost are:

Use PXP 9006 lamps in the existing lights. (around $50)

If you mean "Philips Xtreme Power", then yes, that would be the best low beam bulb you can put in your present not-very-good headlamps.

Install XESighting halogen reflector style lights using H11 lamps (around $300)

Yes...

Install XESighting properly engineered HID lights (around $500)

Yes.

All I ever see are the junk HID's around here and I would have to see a comparison to warrant spending that much.

What kind of a comparison would you be looking for? There are bird's-eye-view beam diagrams on Xesighting's site that are reasonably realistic.

I believe that my current lamps are china blue coated junk with a crappy beam pattern I bought at a flea market when I was more naive and option 2 may be enough for now, but my other vehicles don't use 9006's so I would be stuck with them.

Um, yuck, get the blue bulbs out of there. Do it now, today. Put in any reputable-brand non-blue bulbs and your ability to see will go way up.

When you compared the H11 to the 9006 lamp, were you referring to stock or the XP 9006 lamp and did you mean a stock or boosted H11 lamp?

Any (legitimate) H11 produces more light than any (legitimate) 9006.

Do you consider the XESighting H11 reflectors a better design than stock GMT800 lights all else being equal?

Yes.

Fog Lights: While you suggested a round fog lamp - I would hope something like THIS would be a marginal improvement

Absolutely not. What you're pointing at is toy junk.

 

[-Virgil-]

GM's thinking, (and many others) years ago was that you decrease your near field illumination, so that your attention is put further down the road (which is now lit up by the high beams)

True and correct.

That was acceptable, say for 1950-1960's, but is completely outmoded.

Wrong. It's still true and correct.

The only valid reason would be to prevent an overload of the near field, but that just wreaks of bad design.

No, actually, there's a very sound, scientifically-backed argument to be made for creating low beams with a wide enough midrange illumination field that the total near-field illumination on high+low beam is higher than optimal.

(If the switch is make-before-break, you can see what it is like to have four bulbs simultaneously burning. pause/wait, now insert your smile here)

Remember that subjective impressions of what you think you like in terms of lighting have very little to do with actual safety performance.

Keep a 9006/HB4 as your low beam (take your pick, HB4+30, 9006 long life, the bulb you already have, etcetera)

This is kind of thoughtless advice. There's an enormous range of performance among different subtypes of bulb (standard, +30, long life, etc.)

 

[MichaelW]

This is kind of thoughtless advice. There's an enormous range of performance among different subtypes of bulb (standard, +30, long life, etc.)

If he is adding a custom wiring harness, and thus markedly improving the voltage to/from the bulb, he should pass on upgrading the low beam to HIR2.

Do we know if Grebbler drives with the headlights on all the time? If so, then a recommendation for a long life bulb is thoughtful.
Does he drive off road? then a heavy duty bulb would be appropriate.
Is a shortened life span of a +30 or Philips Xtreme Power acceptable?

 

[-Virgil-]

If he is adding a custom wiring harness, and thus markedly improving the voltage to/from the bulb, he should pass on upgrading the low beam to HIR2.

The one has nothing to do with the other. HIR2s aren't applicable to his headlamps because they lack a bulb shield. Please try to keep up. (Also, HIR2 wasn't on your list of "Yeah, just pick whatever 9006" varieties, so I think you knew this...why are you re-introducing HIR2 into the discussion now?)

Do we know if Grebbler drives with the headlights on all the time? If so, then a recommendation for a long life bulb is thoughtful. Does he drive off road? then a heavy duty bulb would be appropriate. Is a shortened life span of a +30 or Philips Xtreme Power acceptable?

Pfft. He already stated his goal: improved lighting. That cannot be achieved with a long-life bulb (which puts out less light and gives poorer beam focus than a conventional bulb). His truck has non-headlight DRLs, so it's not likely he drives with the headlamps on, anyhow. And there's no such thing as a heavy-duty 9006.

C'mon, dude, just admit you flubbed it and move on. That backpedal noise you're making is distracting.

 

[bshanahan14rulz]

here's some more info on the valeo sylvania gmt800 HID version:
http://www.xesighting.com/gmt_800.html

 

[RusDyr]

I'm a big fan of Hella modules. Retrofitting required, but well worth the hassle in most instances.

+100.
Use Hella's modules and/or take a look at retrofit.com.
Don't even try to put HID lamps in halogen headlamps!