Meat Glue!

127.0.0.1

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the point is, if someone is sticking meat chunks together with a binder, and not clearly stating
that fact when sold to the consumer, and that consumer likes red meat, there is a huge risk for intestinal distress
up to and including death due to undercooking, whereas with solid chunks of meat, the risk is infinitesimally lower

some of the other points in this thread are laughable...people complain and campaign 'we need to feed the world and
solve food problems'...so universities and companies do that, and create robust grains and pesticides and invent new ways to get caloric
content into people at affordable costs...and now the same ones who want to 'feed the world' now they complain 'oh geez look at the frankenfoods they are developing'....


all these food issues and problems are tough to solve and there is no way to 'fix' it, or describe
a fix for it...it is a living, breathing, moving target that all people and governments need to continually
deal with, and improve... as new methods are invented, and old methods are dropped after proven 'bad'
 
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fyrstormer

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I agree, "composite meat" needs to be labeled so people know what they are buying. But the solution is still to cook the meat properly instead of "showing it a picture of a candle" before putting it on a plate.

"Feeding the world and solving food problems" can be done without genetic engineering. Most of the food-shortage problems in the world are caused by trade agreements that cause local farmers to be unable to compete on price with imported food, resulting in the collapse of local farming and a subsequent dependence on imported food. There are some problems caused by pestilence, but that is to be expected when single crops are grown across huge areas of land with no buffers to prevent the spread of pests and diseases. Plants don't grow in large uniform groups naturally, because it's unsafe for them, and our farming methods should mimic this. Genetically-engineered crops that constantly produce their own pesticides (which we then eat) are not at all necessary, though I admit they do create a lot of jobs in the biotech and medical industries.
 

orbital

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Documentary must see:

The World According to Monsanto

....it should be rated R as it really is a Horror flick
 

fyrstormer

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Also good is Food Inc. Seeing chickens fall over and die of exhaustion trying to support overgrown artificially-enhanced breast muscles inspired me to try cooking with thigh meat instead. Less guilt and more flavor too. Another good scene involves someone sticking their arm inside a cow to remove the remains of corn meal, which cows are physically incapable of digesting properly. Needless to say, the permanently-installed porthole on the side of the cow's abdomen requires continuous antibiotics to keep it from becoming infected.
 

EZO

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There is no meat glue, it's simply a binder.

Apparently, technically speaking, transglutaminase is in fact a "glue". It differs from traditional "binders" such as gelatin. Transglutaminase bonds protein molecules together with a very strong (covalent) bond by linking two amino acids: glutamine and lysine. Two pieces of meat "glued" together with TG will be very hard, if not impossible to separate, whereas, two pieces of meat attached together with a "binder" such as gelatin (there are others, of course) would be easy to separate. Workers in the meat processing industry are required to wear dust protective masks or respirators when handling transglutaminase because if it is inhaled in the powdered form it is sold in, it can "glue" one's lungs together. The French Culinary Institute refers to transglutaminase as "meat glue".

For the purposes of this thread the substance transglutaminase and any discussion of it is probably more relevant to the meat processing industry than the culinary profession, although some chefs make use of this stuff to good effect and with good reason.

While 'On Food and Cooking' by Harold McGee is a highly regarded "bible" of the culinary profession, the "Handbook of Meat Processing" By Fidel Toldrá may be more of a technical reference ("bible") on this subject. In any case, you can read it's chapter all about "restructured meat" online, HERE, if anyone is of a mind to.

Transglutaminase has been in widespread use for over thirty years in a great many products including sausages, chicken nuggets, deli meats, fish sticks, imitation crabmeat and lower priced meat cuts that have traditionally been used by the military and elsewhere. While there are a few speculative health concerns, particularly about the safety of the novel protein compounds that are formed when it is used to "restructure" meats and questions about its digestibility, it is GRAS (Generally Recognized As Safe) by the FDA.

But anyway, none of this really matters!

I feel as if the original points made and referenced in Post #1 have be ignored for the most part or perhaps missed altogether, so let me make those points again.

(1) The reason "meat glue" has filtered its way into the news recently is because it is being used to make cheap cuts of meat appear to be choice cuts and prime cuts, which is deceptive and unethical to the thinking of many, particularly to consumers who are paying top dollar believing they are purchasing and consuming high grade steaks. Using "meat glue" to create 25 dollar per pound "filet mignon" out of 4 dollar per pound chuck from several different animals is a new phenomenon in the world of "restructured steaks".

(2) These cuts of meat, unlike many lower priced chuck steaks and roasts are traditionally consumed "rare" by many who prefer it this way and this unwittingly subjects those consumers to bacterial contamination and potential illness.

Although many other ancillary topics have entered this discussion, the above two points are what the original post was about.

These days the industrialization of food production has become of concern to many as awareness has increased and this is leading to changes in food production and consumption that many are embracing, such as the locavore movement and organic farming. This is a good thing as I see it. You can talk about trying to come up with cheap ways to feed large populations all you want but people are not blind. When corporations are more interested in maximizing profits than in offering wholesome foods, it is plain for everyone to see.
 
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EZO

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BTW, + 1 on Food. Inc. Haven't seen The World According to Monsanto yet but I plan to.
 

orbital

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TG occurs naturally & digested normally in the body.

The term glue is verrrry loose, likely said jokingly for a quick nickname.."wow, that works like glue"
Its protein reaction was discovered and isolated. Its bond is not unlike a protein fusion, but to call it that would be silly.

To think there would be no regulation whatsoever at your meat counter would be nieve.
There are other items sold in enormous quantities, that have huge health concerns >>>>>High Fructose Corn Syrup

TG has been used for decades, although I'v never used it personally.
 
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fyrstormer

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Most meat (and all processed meat, as far as I know) is bathed in antiseptic salts before being packaged (or "glued together" and then packaged), so the risk of live infections persisting in the spaces between meat-chunks is minimal. I'm not going to say I particularly like the idea of buying what I think is top-quality meat which turns out to be little above-average chunks of lower-quality meat stuck together, but the people who come up with these processes do it for a living and most of them eat their own work, so they have a vested interest in developing processes that are safe.

Btw, real glue works by hardening and then contracting unevenly, creating microscopic vacuum-bubbles at the interface between the glue and the surface being glued. What you describe, chemically bonding two amino acids already present on the surfaces of the meat-chunks by applying an enzyme to the meat, is different. Not sure that makes any difference as regards microbe contamination, but it's still not really "gluing" the meat together.
 

EZO

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Btw, real glue works by hardening and then contracting unevenly, creating microscopic vacuum-bubbles at the interface between the glue and the surface being glued. What you describe, chemically bonding two amino acids already present on the surfaces of the meat-chunks by applying an enzyme to the meat, is different. Not sure that makes any difference as regards microbe contamination, but it's still not really "gluing" the meat together.
The term glue is verrrry loose, likely said jokingly for a quick nickname.."wow, that works like glue"
Its protein reaction was discovered and isolated. Its bond is not unlike a protein fusion, but to call it that would be silly.

This seems so typical of the level of discussion on CPF these days. A technical, but erroneous digression into the definition of the term glue, rather than a discussion of the actual topic at hand.
 

nbp

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If I'm understanding correctly, the qualm is with the producers decieving consumers in regards to what exactly they are buying, not necessarily whether or not the product is legal or safe. Correct?
 

Bullzeyebill

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Not speaking here as a moderator, I am having a problem "digesting" this information as something conclusive that I need to be concerned about. Not saying that the info presented here is wrong, just saying that I would need to know some names of markets that are using "meat glue". From looking at the presented links it looks like some restaurants may be doing this, but that is still not conclusive to me and not something I feel I need to worry about. Is Costco doing this, Raleys, Safeway? I buy the blue packaged Sirloin (Prime grade) at Costco, and their choice grade Rib Eye steak, and Raley's will cut a juicy cut for me, it certainly seems ok, but what do I know, and who will tell me. If I missed something here in reading this thread, please enlighten me. Thanks,

Bill
 

EZO

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If I'm understanding correctly, the qualm is with the producers decieving consumers in regards to what exactly they are buying, not necessarily whether or not the product is legal or safe. Correct?

Yes, basically correct, but a little more complicated than that. This stuff has been in widespread use for several decades and it is presumed safe. There are some safety issues and a number of unresolved health questions.
 

EZO

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Not speaking here as a moderator, I am having a problem "digesting" this information as something conclusive that I need to be concerned about. Not saying that the info presented here is wrong, just saying that I would need to know some names of markets that are using "meat glue". From looking at the presented links it looks like some restaurants may be doing this, but that is still not conclusive to me and not something I feel I need to worry about. Is Costco doing this, Raleys, Safeway? I buy the blue packaged Sirloin (Prime grade) at Costco, and their choice grade Rib Eye steak, and Raley's will cut a juicy cut for me, it certainly seems ok, but what do I know, and who will tell me. If I missed something here in reading this thread, please enlighten me. Thanks,

Bill

Hi Bill,

I had the opportunity to speak with a friend of mine today who is a butcher and head of the meat department at our local food Co-op. Basically, I learned that most primary cuts of meat you buy at the average supermarket should be "real". However, some cuts of meat you will see on the shelf in the meat cooler are indeed "glued", and because of FDA labeling requirements it should state, "formed" or "reformed" on the package. Marketing people prefer to avoid the actual technical term "restructured steak". These "formed" products, introduced in the 1970s have traditionally been lower priced steaks made with pieces of lower quality cuts, usually from different parts of different animals made to appear as higher priced cuts but still economically priced. Without these labels you would not be able to tell that the meat is "glued" together from parts. They look exactly like "real" steaks in the package. In supermarkets you will often find "butcher shops" with nice display cases full of traditional steaks and roasts that the butchers will cut to your preference and hand package for you along with premade "portion controlled" steaks as well as prepared "gourmet offerings" that come in spiral shapes with different colored layers, sometimes bacon wrapped and these are always "glued" but because of how they are sold in the meat case there will be no label. This would be the same with bacon wrapped scallops you may see in the fish department. My butcher friend seems very unhappy about the current trend of supermarkets purchasing chilled pre-butchered steaks already in styrofoam and shrink wrapped packaging that come this way direct from the meat processing plant. It cuts highly skilled people like him out of the loop, makes it hard to know what is "really" in the package and eliminates consumer preferences regarding trim and thickness but, all in all, a steak should be a steak.

It was explained to me that anytime you attend a banquet or large function such as a wedding or eat at a hotel that is catered by a food service, your filet mignon or prime rib, or chicken cordon bleu, or salmon fillet, or whatever, is quite likely to be "portion controlled", "glued" meat, poultry or fish. There are no labeling requirements at food service events or restaurants. This is becoming an industry standard and this is where the whole idea of making expensive looking filet mignon out of lower priced cuts or scraps of tenderloin came about. It is becoming popular with certain restaurant chefs as a way to maximize profits but many chefs won't touch the stuff.

Since launching this thread I've learned way more about this subject than I ever wanted to know but I guess it's better to be informed. I'm rather astonished to learn about how many items in the supermarket that I've been eating for years are glued. For example, pretty much all cold-cuts you see in the deli case are "glued". This is how turkey breast, ham, pastrami or roast beef can come in such perfect rounded shapes that can be easily cut to uniformed sizes. Of course, as previously stated, many bologna, sausages, salami, imitation crab meat, fish sticks, frozen fish portions and chicken nuggets are all "glued" and have been for more than thirty years now. The next time you see a ham in the deli case at the supermarket, you may notice that some parts of the sliced cold-cut face are darker than other parts. This is because that "part" is of lower quality "knuckle" meat. Generally, the more even and straight grained the product looks, the higher the quality of "components" that have gone into it.

I've learned that there are indeed some serious health questions but no definite answers as yet. For now, as previously stated, transglutaminase (an enzyme made from fermented bacteria) and thrombin (another "meat glue" made from bovine and porcine blood (fibrinogen), sold by the Fibrimex Corporation) are considered GRAS (Generally Recognized as Safe).

This doesn't mean they ARE safe. Transglutaminase may in fact, have a role in disease. There are several primary health questions, aside from the bacterial contamination and oxidation that are associated with glued meat products. Apparently, there may be a connection with Alzheimer's disease, Huntington's disease and Parkinsons. "Recent research indicates that sufferers from neurological diseases like Huntington's, and Parkinson's may have unusually high levels of one type of transglutaminase, tissue transglutaminase. It is hypothesized that tissue transglutaminase may be involved in the formation of the protein aggregates that causes these maladies." The brains of Alzheimers victims have been also been found to have excess amounts of transglutaminase. Since transglutaminase is naturally occurring it is not known if consuming it in meat products has anything at all to do with the excess amounts found in the brains of victims of this disease but it is of serious concern and is under study (see link) - (see link). The other major health concern is the possible connection with autoimmune celiac disease. "Anti-transglutaminase antibodies are found in celiac disease patients and may play a role in the small bowel damage and inflamation". Patients suffering from Coeliac disease (celiac) are advised to avoid consuming transglutaminase. Transglutaminase may also play a role in arthritis. While it is quite possible that the form of transglutaminase used as meat glue has nothing at all to do with these diseases, I guess that many of us who consume these products on a regular basis will eventually find out.

meatx.jpg


fusedmeatx.jpg
 
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Bullzeyebill

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EZO, thanks for your detailed reply. I will continue, when possible, to order my steaks, or roasts cut to my specifications.

Bill
 

PhotonWrangler

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EZO, thank you (and others here) for the extensive research and thoughtful commentary. This thread has been quite an education for me! I understand that it is good to question the effects of ingesting such "glue" products without pushing the panic button. We ingest a wide range of chemicals on a daily basis without noticing it, so it's good to occasionally step back and think about what we're eating (and drinking and breathing).
 

LitFuse

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EZO, thank you (and others here) for the extensive research and thoughtful commentary. This thread has been quite an education for me! I understand that it is good to question the effects of ingesting such "glue" products without pushing the panic button. We ingest a wide range of chemicals on a daily basis without noticing it, so it's good to occasionally step back and think about what we're eating (and drinking and breathing).

+1!

This thread has been an education for me. Many thanks to all that contributed, and to EZO in particular!
 

EZO

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This thread has been primarily about the practice of using "meat glue" to restructure low priced, lower quality beef pieces and scraps into what appears to the consumer as high priced premium steaks.

I thought I would add an addendum to this thread about the other end of the meat consuming spectrum, "fast foods", that may be of interest to CPF readers.

Roger Mandigo, Phd., a meat scientist and retired professor at the University of Nebraska-Lincoln is credited as one of the primary inventors of "restructured meat". He was inducted into the Meat Industry Hall of Fame in November of 2010. (The meat industry has a Hall of Fame?.......who knew?) Anyway, Dr. Mandigo is often also credited with the invention of the McRib Sandwich, although as he points out, McDonald's actually invented it using his technology.

Here's what he says about the product:

"Most people would be extremely unhappy if they were served heart or tongue on a plate," he observed. "But flaked into a restructured product it loses its identity. Such products as tripe, heart, and scalded stomachs are high in protein, completely edible, wholesome, and nutritious, and most are already used in sausage without objection." Pork patties could be shaped into any form and marketed in restaurants or for airlines, solving a secondary problem of irregular portion size of cuts such as pork chops. In 1981 McDonald's introduced a boneless pork sandwich of chunked and formed meat called the McRib, developed in part through check-off funds [micro-donations from pork producers] from the NPPC [National Pork Producers Council]. It was not as popular as the McNugget, introduced in 1983, would be, even though both products were composed of unmarketable parts of the animal. The McNugget, however, benefited from positive consumer associations with chicken, even though it had none of the "healthy" attributes people associated with poultry."

The McRib meat itself is made from 36 different ingredients, but no rib meat. It is not, as Dr. Mandigo points out, that this is so different than other food products that have been consumed for many, many years, such as certain types of sausage or Spam, but a product like Spam has never tried to pass itself off as anything other than what it is. So, the difference here, as with all "restructured meats", whether it is a McRib, a McNugget or an expensive faux filet mignon is that these are made to appear as something they are not and little or no effort is made to inform the consumer.

As for me, I am a carnivore who also enjoys vegetarian cooking and this makes for a healthier more varied and balanced diet. But I try to consume wholesome foods and I haven't eaten any fast food in many years. And I've never tried a McRib. That's a good thing, especially now that I know what is in some of the McProducts. I know a lot of people though who regularly eat this fare and who would be absolutely shocked and pretty grossed out to learn what's in those nuggets and ribs.

mcrib.jpg
 
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nbp

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Regarding the last post, I could reasonably argue either direction, and I often am conflicted on the topic of food processing.

From one angle, I don't want tongues and hearts and stomachs in my food, as I find it kind of repulsive. Ideally, I'd love all farm fresh foods and locally raised animals, butchered to order. Probably that is how we ALL SHOULD eat.

On the other hand, I realize that as Americans, though WE are repulsed by those things, the reality is that most of the people in the world, even in developed countries, eat things we have been raised to believe are disgusting. Insects, grubs, organs, brains, eyeball, marrow etc. are common fare, even delicacies, for many millions of people. And in reality, they are mostly harmless. To me, snails are probably a more vile creature than a piece of heart muscle, but go to a fine French restaurant and you will pay good money for escargot steamed and drenched in garlic butter.

We find those things disgusting when we're told about them, but when left ignorant, people buy, and happily eat, McRibs and McNuggets and leave sastisfied and don't get sick. I find hot dogs sort of repulsive if I think about them too much, but when I go to a ball game, a dog with all the fixins and a cold beer is freakin' delicious! And they haven't harmed me yet. (other than maybe the cholesterol, haha) So is it really so bad that those things are in our food? Everyone around the world eats it, and when we eat it we like it, and survive? Is it really a problem? I guess my stand would be that everyone has the ability to be informed and make good decisions about what they eat or don't eat based on whatever metric is important to them. I personally would like to see more personal responsibility and accountability in all areas of life, but that's not the way the world is going, it seems.

What I think we can universally agree on, is that while companies have the "right" to put whatever in their products they want, assuming they are GRAS, they should have to disclose, at least to a reasonable degree, the contents. That they should pass off lesser cuts as "premium" cuts using such glues or other means is not acceptable. That kind of deceit is not acceptable with any product in any industry in my opinion.
 

127.0.0.1

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EZO that was one nasty picture of glued meat being undercooked at the seams. dang, makes ya think thrice
 

baterija

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Binding meat together simply for appearance makes me a touch uncomfortable. Both for including something unnecessary just to appeal to the squeamish and because of the slight risk of introducing bacteria in between layers. I'm even the person that has zero issue with sausage or pink slime (well aside from the name :p). Western countries (and especially America) put a lot of resources into producing and consuming meat in greater quantities than most of the world. The least we can do is efficiently use every part of the animal.

The market for gluing wouldn't really exist if we didn't have a cultural squeamishness towards only eating some of the least nutritious parts of the animal. It's ironic in some ways that the market for this is created by the very drives that make it seem "wrong" to some.
 

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