Need a charger for NIMH and LSD AA's and AAA's

[BigBluefish]

I've decided I need a charger for AA and AAAs, and I know < 0 about battery chargers. I've got a crappy, cheap, no-name 4 station charger that hangs on the wall socket, takes all night to charge the cells, and has them heating up to an alarming level, IMHO, which I got with some no-name NIMH cells about 5 years ago when I got a digital camera. My batteries are dying very quickly, and I'm pretty sure the combination of lousy batteries and lousy charger is to blame.

I'm now going to be using Enloops, and perhaps another good LSD AA (and maybe AAA) for my digital camera and my mostly 1 x AA lights, and a couple 2 x AA lights.

I was looking at the La Crosse BC700.

1. Will this work well with Enloops, and also with 'regular' NIMH rechargeables, if I have to use them?
2. Can I charge just one cell at a time?
3. Is there a less expensive, quality alternative that will let me charge 1 LSD AA or AAA at a time, or 2 or 4 at a time? I can't imagine ever needing more than 4 stations.
4. Am I out of my mind, and should I really be looking at a different brand/type of charger altogether?

 

[shadowjk]

1) Yes
2) Yes

 

[Wicho]

3) I'm not sure about the single cell thing, but for 2-4 at a time and other options, check out Thomas-distributing.com
4) We're all out of our minds around here.

Why not spring the extra $3 for the BC-900? I think it gives you a faster charging rate, in case you eventually need it.

Anyway, you'll eventually end up wanting a Maha Powerex C-9000. :devil:

 

[BigBluefish]

3)
Anyway, you'll eventually end up wanting a Maha Powerex C-9000. :devil:

Yes. But I can't say the same for my wife. :sigh:

 

[Wicho]

Good point - the better half of many of us that keeps our spending in check. Well, unless you're Thom.

Yes. But I can't say the same for my wife. :sigh:

I have a couple of C-9000's and a couple of BC-900's - while I like the Maha's more, the LaCrosses are very nice chargers too, and are much smaller. The one thing you want to be mindful of with the BC-900's (or 700's) is when charging at a rapid rate - the batteries sit very close together in the charger, so they will get warm. There have been reports of missed terminations, but I think it's only been when charging at the 200mAh setting (which is unfortunately the default setting). Just charge at .5C and you should be fine.

Another option if you're going with Eneloops is one of the kits Costco sells (if you have one near you). $25.99 gets you 8AA's, 4AAA's, a charger that charges at 300mAh (maybe 350, do a search), and 2 D and 2 C cell adapters. If you aren't using all the batteries at once, you can always have a ready supply of charged cells since they are LSD.

 

[BigBluefish]

The one thing you want to be mindful of with the BC-900's (or 700's) is when charging at a rapid rate - the batteries sit very close together in the charger, so they will get warm.

Another option if you're going with Eneloops is one of the kits Costco sells (if you have one near you). $25.99 gets you 8AA's, 4AAA's, a charger that charges at 300mAh (maybe 350, do a search), and 2 D and 2 C cell adapters. If you aren't using all the batteries at once, you can always have a ready supply of charged cells since they are LSD.

I don't mind them getting warm; if it's not a safety issue, or damaging to the batteries, that's OK. With my charger, they get really warm 'hmmmm, this can't be right' warm.

We do have a Costco nearby, and a couple of friends who are members (we're at BJ's). Maybe I'll have them pick up the Eneloop kit. Do they make C-cell Eneloops? My C-Mag would probably like those. And maybe, eventually I can get rid of the half shelf of Alkaline batteries my wife keeps in the fridge! (They're taking up beer space!)

 

[Gary123]

This thread is just what I needed as I was about start a thread asking for a good charger for AA Nimh batteries. Great information here!

And if its OK to ask, are there any particularly good AA size Nimh batteries to look for, like Elite 1700, Eneloop 2000, and Powerex 2700's?

Thanks, and I apologize if I shouldn't have posted this question here.

 

[UnknownVT]

I was looking at the La Crosse BC700.
3. Is there a less expensive, quality alternative that will let me charge 1 LSD AA or AAA at a time, or 2 or 4 at a time? I can't imagine ever needing more than 4 stations.

The LaCrosse BC-700 is a good charger
but as others have pointed out only for a few dollars more one could get the LaCrosse BC-900 which has higher charging currents to put the it into the "recommended" 0.5C-1C range.

It's at Amazon for $39.95 shipped - link
La Crosse Technology BC-900 AlphaPower Battery Charger

Q.3 check out this charger -

Soshine SC-C3 Intelligent Rapid Charger

It's $13.98 shipped - but shipped from Hong Kong, does NOT have UL listing - but does claim CE mark -
please read my review and follow up posts -
I like it a lot - because it's versatile, works well for me, and cheap.....

 

[coppertrail]

This thread is just what I needed as I was about start a thread asking for a good charger for AA Nimh batteries. Great information here!

And if its OK to ask, are there any particularly good AA size Nimh batteries to look for, like Elite 1700, Eneloop 2000, and Powerex 2700's?

Thanks, and I apologize if I shouldn't have posted this question here.

For LSD NiMH cells, go with eneloop. For non-LSD NiMH, go with the Powerex 2700 mAh cells. Throw in a MH-C9000 charger and you're all set

 

[Wicho]

+1

For LSD NiMH cells, go with eneloop. For non-LSD NiMH, go with the Powerex 2700 mAh cells. Throw in a MH-C9000 charger and you're all set

 

[Bones]

...
We do have a Costco nearby, and a couple of friends who are members (we're at BJ's). Maybe I'll have them pick up the Eneloop kit.
...

Several months ago, a different four place charger started appearing in the Costco kits that is somewhat inferior to the original.

This thread sets out the details, but all you really need to know before making your purchase is that the preferred charger has a slider enclosing the battery compartment and the other doesn't.

It also has one LED below the battery compartment whereas the other has two.

Although increasingly scarce, a little digging is can prove worthwhile.

...
Do they make C-cell Eneloops? My C-Mag would probably like those. And maybe, eventually I can get rid of the half shelf of Alkaline batteries my wife keeps in the fridge! (They're taking up beer space!)
...

No, and those much more in the know don't see any sign of one on the immediate horizon.

However, the kit does come with two AA to C and two AA to D adapters, perhaps they will prove useful enough to claw back at least enough space for another six pack...

Incidentally, here is a thread on the preferred charger bundled with the Costco kits.

I have both it and the MH-C9000, and it's my considered opinion that the MQN05 is a better overall choice for charging my Eneloops.

Not that I would want to do without the MH-C9000, mind you. But its duties are forming, conditioning and capacity checking. All essential for optimizing the performance and lifespan of rechargeables.

 

[Anders]

Hello BigBluefish.

thomasdistributing have LSD cells in C size:
http://thomasdistributing.com/shop/...html?SP_id=&osCsid=1ag2ivtgsdqch0n9j18itv0ab5

The only ones I am aware of, they seems to work ok.

Anders

 

[UnknownVT]

I have both it and the MH-C9000, and it's my considered opinion that the MQN05 is a better overall choice for charging my Eneloops.

This is interesting - because -

eneloop MQN05 - 4-position charger (original) -

This means the charging current for AA is 300mA (=0.15C for 2000mAh eneloop AA)
So the charger is off of the 0.5C to 1C, or 0.1C "recommendation" for NiMH -
and more or less in the WORST possible range of charging current -
according to -

BatteryUniversity.com page on nickel based batteries
about 3/4 down that page under
Charging nickel-metal-hydride -
" It is difficult, if not impossible, to slow-charge a nickel-metal-hydride. At a C?rate of 0.1-0.3C, the voltage and temperature profiles fail to exhibit defined characteristics to measure the full charge state accurately and the charger must rely on a timer. Harmful overcharge can occur if a partially or fully charged battery is charged with a fixed timer. The same occurs if the battery has aged and can only hold 50 instead of 100% charge. Overcharge could occur even though the battery feels cool to the touch. "

That charge current was so contrary to all the recommendations that our local battery guru SilverFox singled out the eneloop chargers in his thread -

A look at slow charging

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverFox
The questions remains, Why does Sanyo in the Eneloop site seem to contradict the recommendations in their main site? Perhaps the Eneloop chargers have changed from –dV termination to peak voltage termination. I think some testing may be in order…

But exactly like you said in another thread -

An interesting difference in perspectives though ...

 

[Bones]

But exactly like you said in another thread -

An interesting difference in perspectives though ...

It is isn't it UnknownVT?

Anyway, I thought I would respond to your post in bite sized pieces, starting with the alleged conflict between the Eneloop site and the main Sanyo site:

That charge current was so contrary to all the recommendations that our local battery guru SilverFox singled out the eneloop chargers in his thread - A look at slow charging

Originally Posted by SilverFox
The questions remains, Why does Sanyo in the Eneloop site seem to contradict the recommendations in their main site? Perhaps the Eneloop chargers have changed from –dV termination to peak voltage termination. I think some testing may be in order…

Since I have not yet seen the contradicting recommendations on the main Sanyo site, I thought I would just show you mine and you can then show me yours:

From the Eneloop site Facts & FAQs:

13. Can I use a "Quick Charger" to charge an eneloop battery?

Though it is possible to charge an eneloop battery in a "Quick Charger", it is not recommended. We recommend charging eneloop batteries in a NiMh charger that is 2 hours or more. Charging eneloop batteries in a "Quick Charger" can reduce the overall life of the battery. It is strongly recommended to use eneloop, GE/Sanyo or Sanyo NiMh battery chargers. We only warrant eneloop if used with an eneloop, GE/Sanyo or Sanyo NiMh battery charger.

 

[UnknownVT]

It is isn't it UnknownVT?
Since I have not yet seen the contradicting recommendations on the main Sanyo site, I thought I would just show you mine and you can then show me yours:
From the Eneloop site Facts & FAQs:

Nope what I meant was Sanyo eneloop's recommendation was contrary to the general concensus recommendation of using 0.5C-1C - much advocated by other battery experts including BatteryUniversity.com and our own SilverFox -
just to be clear, I was not trying to say Sanyo contradicted themslves.

 

[Bones]

Nope what I meant was Sanyo eneloop's recommendation was contrary to the general concensus recommendation of using 0.5C-1C - much advocated by other battery experts including BatteryUniversity.com and our own SilverFox - just to be clear, I was not trying to say Sanyo contradicted themslves.

Okay, but since your post did include this quotation:

Originally Posted by SilverFox
The questions remains, Why does Sanyo in the Eneloop site seem to contradict the recommendations in their main site? Perhaps the Eneloop chargers have changed from –dV termination to peak voltage termination. I think some testing may be in order…

And since inquiring minds can't assess the respective merits of the contradicting recommendations until both are produced, it would still be greatly appreciated if you could provide the other UnknownVT.

 

[UnknownVT]

And since inquiring minds can't assess the respective merits of the contradicting recommendations until both are produced, it would still be greatly appreciated if you could provide the other UnknownVT.

still kind of sounds challenging....
I've stated many times I am not a battery expert - that's the reason I quoted SilverFox and BatteryUniversity.com

My source was in my Post #13 above, the one you originally replied to -

from BatteryUniversity.com page on nickel based batteries
about 3/4 down that page under
Charging nickel-metal-hydride -

" Nickel-metal-hydride should be rapid charged rather than slow charged. Because of poor overcharge absorption, the trickle charge must be lower than that of nickel-cadmium and is usually around 0.05C. This explains why the original nickel-cadmium charger cannot be used nickel-metal-hydride.

It is difficult, if not impossible, to slow-charge a nickel-metal-hydride. At a C?rate of 0.1-0.3C, the voltage and temperature profiles fail to exhibit defined characteristics to measure the full charge state accurately and the charger must rely on a timer. Harmful overcharge can occur if a partially or fully charged battery is charged with a fixed timer. The same occurs if the battery has aged and can only hold 50 instead of 100% charge. Overcharge could occur even though the battery feels cool to the touch. "

and

"Simple Guidelines:
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]nickel-based batteries prefer fast-charge. Lingering slow charges cause crystalline formation (memory). "[/FONT]

and just to be sure that eneloop are still basically NiMH -
from eneloop.info the UK site -

" Other Chargers
Basically eneloop is a modern Ni-MH battery, which can be charged like any other Ni-MH battery.
Therefore eneloop can be charged also with other, modern chargers, which are suitable to charge Ni-MH batteries.
However, SANYO cannot accept any liability for the function or safety of chargers made by other manufacturers.
Also SANYO cannot be held responsible for any damage to eneloop batteries caused by unsuitable chargers. "

This means the eneloop chargers are exactly in the undesirable charging NiMH current range of 0.1-0.3C -
not one is above 0.5C or below 0.1C.

EDIT to ADD - another corroborating source -
Duracell Technical bulletin on Charging NiMH (pdf) bottom of page 14

Please note the Not Recommended range of C/3 to C/10 -
which is where the eneloop chargers all seem to fall........

 

[geek4christ]

I've been wanting to get a good, inexpensive nimh charger myself. I initially set my price limit at $25, since I plan to buy and predominantly use li-ion to feed my new flashlight addiction.

However, for just an extra $10, the analyzing/conditioning features of the BC-900 really drew me in. I'm a little worried about the overcharging and overheating issues that have been mentioned in various other places, though. I am simply not interested in cracking open a charger and soldering it as was suggested here.

So anyway, I see several thumbs up in this thread for the BC-900. Do those of you who own it (particularly, v33) have any problems at all with missed termination? Is it safe to say that pointing a fan at this charger will solve most, if not all, charge termination problems?

 

[UnknownVT]

I initially set my price limit at $25, since I plan to buy and predominantly use li-ion to feed my new flashlight addiction.
However, for just an extra $10, the analyzing/conditioning features of the BC-900 really drew me in.
So anyway, I see several thumbs up in this thread for the BC-900. Do those of you who own it (particularly, v33)

Maybe I'm reading this wrong -
BUT are you thinking of charging Li-Ion (Lithium-Ion) batteries in the LaCrosse BC-900?
or did you mean NiMH (Nickel Metal-Hydride)?

Li-Ion are 3.6V batteries and require different chargers to the regular (1.2V) NiMH -
the LaCrosse BC-900 does NOT charge Li-Ion batteries.

However if you meant NiMH - then the LaCrosse BC-900 is fine.

 

[geek4christ]

Maybe I'm reading this wrong -
BUT are you thinking of charging Li-Ion (Lithium-Ion) batteries in the LaCrosse BC-900?
or did you mean NiMH (Nickel Metal-Hydride)?

Li-Ion are 3.6V batteries and require different chargers to the regular (1.2V) NiMH -
the LaCrosse BC-900 does NOT charge Li-Ion batteries.

However if you meant NiMH - then the LaCrosse BC-900 is fine.

Oh man, sorry. I wasn't clear at all. I meant that I didn't want to spend a lot of money on a NiMH charger because I'm planning to predominantly use Li-Ion in my flashlights. I just need something better for NiMH batteries (for the xbox controllers )than the el-cheapo energizer slow charger I have now.

I plan to get a Pila IBC and some AW cells based on the heaping praise from other CPFers for the Li-Ion route.

That's a really interesting thought, though. What would happen if you stuck a 14500 into a NiMH charger?