need help with battery selection

[boo]

KeepItLight, I really appreciate you taking the time to help me.
That is a lot of information to try to digest. I will read it over and
over.
Even if the batteries I ordered are maybe not the best choice,
"performance wise", do you think they are safe to use in the K70?.

When ordering batteries, retailers usually do not give in depth
details about their batteries.

 

[ven]

I dont think its 7a per cell, i would have thought 7a at the LED.



Lots of room in the carrier


Bare on mind, cells over 69mm are going to be a tight fit(will fit but TIGHT)


Still stand by 30Q's as a happy medium, when the voltage drops through use and you want turbo, there will be less sag and should sustain higher modes for longer before stepping down.

 

[KeepingItLight]

I dont think its 7a per cell, i would have thought 7a at the LED.

I only know what kj2 said. His statement was clear that the 7 amps was from the battery.

Acebeam told me, the K70 draws about 7A from the batteries so think the Sanyo's are the way to go.

That, of course, does not mean he is right! Even if he has accurately related what Acebeam told him, that information could be wrong.

You can see why I have to fall back on the knowledge of more experienced folks than myself!

For the OP: if the 7A requirement is right, then I would not use the Orbtronic 3400mAh batteries. That battery is not rated to supply a 7A continuous discharge. Furthermore, I doubt very much that it has the three MOSFETs that Acebeam says are required when you use protected batteries. Lastly, it is not a "high draw" battery in the first place.

If I could find a quality battery that was capable of moderately high current draws, and which also used three MOSFETs in its protection circuit, I would probably use it.

Since I do not know of any such batteries at this writing, I would use unprotected Samsung 30Q batteries if I were the owner of a K70.

 

[Crazyeddiethefirst]

Hi Boo, I am not a battery expert, but I can make a few recommendations that will help you to be safe:
1. Only use a quality battery charger, and if new to Lithium batteries(of any chemistry), buy one with a display that does more than just % of battery.
2. For the first three months (at least), use Digital Multi Meter and measure EACH battery before charging and after. Then, after using your light, check the voltage of each battery again(the goal is to "learn your light", so you have an idea of how each mode is used for the same time frame and the resultant drain on your cells). After you get very familiar with your current batteries, order four more(I like the Samsung 30Q, but I don't know if they meet the requirements listed on the Acebeam website for your light(HK has great battery and charger reviews, but you could also call Acebeam to confirm), anyway buy 4 new batteries and do the exact same thing: test, charge, test, use in the light test, repeat as nauseum until you have enough experience to judge when the batteries should be recharged. It sounds like a lot of work, but if I plan a 7 day stay at Kennedy Meadows in the Sierra Nevada Mountains, I know how many batteries are needed for my light of choice, my backup lights, etc. Since I am typically dependent on solar power for recharging, I need to bring adequate supply for all my needs and of course planning for contingencies. Sorry for such a long post, but one thing about protected Vs non-protected cells: if the protective circuit kicks in, you will be in the dark as opposed to unprotected cells that will dim and fade rather than trip & go out suddenly)there are a ton of other considerations too, just pointing out that a backup light or two is essential if in an unfamiliar environment. Good luck, and listen to the experts that have already weighed in on your questions.

 

[ven]

I only know what kj2 said. His statement was clear that the 7 amps was from the battery.



That, of course, does not mean he is right! Even if he has accurately related what Acebeam told him, that information could be wrong.

You can see why I have to fall back on the knowledge of more experienced folks than myself!

For the OP: if the 7A requirement is right, then I would not use the Orbtronic 3400mAh batteries. That battery is not rated to supply a 7A continuous discharge. Furthermore, I doubt very much that it has the three MOSFETs that Acebeam says are required when you use protected batteries. Lastly, it is not a "high draw" battery in the first place.

If I could find a quality battery that was capable of moderately high current draws, and which also used three MOSFETs in its protection circuit, I would probably use it.

Since I do not know of any such batteries at this writing, I would use unprotected Samsung 30Q batteries if I were the owner of a K70.

I remember vinh stating the k60 was driven hard and could not get more out without compromise(so to speak) the k70vn, he squeezed a little more out , not sure on the driver or actual cell set up regarding 2s2p etc......

So for 7a per cell is quite an ask,even the tk75vn at 4000lm with 2s2p(the carrier could be different on the k70!!) the A at the led as 4.4a, the cells work out under 3a iirc(or around that). I know different LED's and again unsure of the layout...........i am just presuming its 7a at the LED which makes sense to me................but we should never presume! :laughing:

 

[boo]

Ok.
I have read and reread your post and I am grateful for your help.
When I first got interested in the Acebeam K70, their website did NOT have as much
information on it like it does now. Apparently they updated the information somewhere
along the way.
At first they only recommended "protected" batteries.
Now after their update, they also recommend "unprotected" high drain batteries.
It is written in red letters on their website.

Considering this new information, do you think the Samsung INR 18650-30Q 3000Ah would be
the best choice for the K70 at the present time. "button top, or flat top?.
I have using unprotected button top high drain in my Noctigon Meteor for somtime
without problems using an XTR4 charger.

Samsung INR 18650-30Q ?

Button top ?

Flat top ?

 

[ven]

Flat top for me, just seat better due to the slightly protruding + ends in the carrier.

Dont forget regarding manufacturers, many say protected only to kind of protect them selves. We are the minority !! we know what cells do what and how to look after them, i bet 90%+ of the public wont know anywhere near what many do on CPF...................many dont care either!!

Lights gone out, put on charge till light turns green, repeat..............So companies have to play very safe(good manufacturers that is!!!) with a presumption the end user will not be well educated on the fuel.............imo anyway.

30Qs are great cells for the money!!!

 

[KeepingItLight]

If I could find a quality battery that was capable of moderately high current draws, and which also used three MOSFETs in its protection circuit, I would probably use it.

Since I do not know of any such batteries at this writing, I would use unprotected Samsung 30Q batteries if I were the owner of a K70.

Flat top for me, just seat better due to the slightly protruding + ends in the carrier.

+1

Li-ion is usually very safe. Remember, however, that series configurations are the most "dangerous." Buy four batteries in a set, and keep them as a set. Don't use them in any flashlight except your K70.

Be sure to check battery voltages regularly, both before and after recharging. If a mismatch develops, where, for instance, one battery drains significantly faster than another, then your set is finished. The batteries can still be used in 1x18650 flashlights, but they should no longer be used as a set in your K70. When that happens, buy another complete set.

Do not get in the habit of running your K70 all the way to exhaustion. Every now and again, that's okay, just don't do it all the time. If you do, the the weakest battery in the set may be pushed too hard.

Does the K70 have a low-voltage cutoff circuit that turns off the flashlight completely when its batteries get too low? If not, then it is possible for you to over-discharge unprotected batteries. That's why you need to check voltage before recharging. Even if the flashlight output seemed okay, one weak battery in a set can be driven lower than its mates. So, check.

I have the Nitecore Digicharger D4. It shows battery voltage at the start of charging, and also throughout. I use it to check the voltage of all my batteries every single time they are charged.

Only once, so far, have I found a bad battery. That was a brand new 16340 that arrived in the mail with only 2.7 volts on it. Since I knew that fresh batteries are shipped from the factory with 3.6 volts on them, I did not attempt to charge this battery.

 

[boo]

I always buy batteries in "sets".
I use specific batteries in specific flashlights and do NOT mix them up.
My charger cuts off automatically at 4.2 volts. I do not let the batteries get down to 2.4 volts.
So far, things have went well.

I`m reading, reading, and reading some more. Trying to learn.

Please tell me plain and simple, IYO, is the Samsung INR 18650-Q30 flat top 3000Ah
"unprotected" high drain the best choice for the K70 at the present time.
A better choice than the ones I bought?.
I would like to have good batteries on hand when I get my flashlight.
If the ones I bought are questionable for use in the K70, I will put them
aside and use in another light.
ps: I also have a volt meter I use to check the voltage of my batteries.
My charger shows voltage as it is charging + Ah.

ps: Mountain Electronics list the Samsung INR 18650-q30 as a medium drain
battery.
I thought everyone was recommending a high drain battery?.
Thanks boo.

 

[MAD777]

Here are the best two 18650 batteries I have found. I wouldn't know what to do about batteries if it weren't for HKJ.

 

[ven]

I always buy batteries in "sets".
I use specific batteries in specific flashlights and do NOT mix them up.
My charger cuts off automatically at 4.2 volts. I do not let the batteries get down to 2.4 volts.
So far, things have went well.

I`m reading, reading, and reading some more. Trying to learn.

Please tell me plain and simple, IYO, is the Samsung INR 18650-Q30 flat top 3000Ah
"unprotected" high drain the best choice for the K70 at the present time.
A better choice than the ones I bought?.
I would like to have good batteries on hand when I get my flashlight.
If the ones I bought are questionable for use in the K70, I will put them
aside and use in another light.
ps: I also have a volt meter I use to check the voltage of my batteries.
My charger shows voltage as it is charging + Ah.

ps: Mountain Electronics list the Samsung INR 18650-q30 as a medium drain
battery.
I thought everyone was recommending a high drain battery?.
Thanks boo.

They are rated at 15a continuous,compared to Panasonic B they are high drain, compared to vtc5 they are medium. Kind of splitting hairs now as 15a is more than enough for the k70vn .

Samsung 25R then , get these at 20a continuous and 2500mah , is also a great cell for this light. LG 20a 2500 mah are another .....

The 30Q again are a happy medium with more than enough A rating and 3000mah....

Go with what ever you prefer , I have pretty much all the high or "medium" drain cells out, and to they eye for what the multi cell lights put out, to the eye it looks the same . With a meter you will see a slight difference,which is meaningless in the real world of uses ....and usually only for a limited time anyway.

Single cell high output lights(like quad drop ins or high voltage LED,s (3000+lm and around 10a for example), then upgraded tail caps and the highest A rated calls for the highest output ......for a minute till it's too hot anyway. These kind of applications you will notice to the eye easier....

 

[ven]

What actual batteries have you bought boo? You say about them being better than the ones you have bought .

Then maybe can answer , IMO any good cell with 10a rating or more are good...

Even then at 10a you are more than covered imho

 

[KeepingItLight]

Please tell me plain and simple, IYO, is the Samsung INR 18650-Q30 flat top 3000Ah "unprotected" high drain the best choice for the K70 at the present time.

If I could find a quality battery that was capable of moderately high current draws, and which also used three MOSFETs in its protection circuit, I would probably use it.

Since I do not know of any such batteries at this writing, I would use unprotected Samsung 30Q batteries if I were the owner of a K70.

[Emphasis added.]

[Is the Samsung 30Q a] better choice than the ones I bought?.

For the OP: if the 7A requirement is right, then I would not use the Orbtronic 3400mAh batteries. That battery is not rated to supply a 7A continuous discharge. Furthermore, I doubt very much that it has the three MOSFETs that Acebeam says are required when you use protected batteries. Lastly, it is not a "high draw" battery in the first place.

[Emphasis added.]

Unprotected, Samsung 30Q flat-tops should be okay.

Learn proper care and safety measures before using any Li-ion battery.

 

[boo]

What actual batteries have you bought boo? You say about them being better than the ones you have bought .

Then maybe can answer , IMO any good cell with 10a rating or more are good...

Even then at 10a you are more than covered imho

Ven, in an earlier post on this thread I posted a photobucket link to a picture
and description of the batteries I bought.
Some say they were a good choice for the K70, others say not so good.
I`m confused again.
boo

 

[ven]

Ven, in an earlier post on this thread I posted a photobucket link to a picture
and description of the batteries I bought.
Some say they were a good choice for the K70, others say not so good.
I`m confused again.
boo

Sorry get lost in it all, the cells by the figures are fine at 10a, no issue there!!

Looking closer what confuses me is they are 3400mah cells, only ones i know at 3400 are panasonic B cells...........these are not 10a cells.....ouch on the price too!

You should be able to get 4 x 30Q's for 1/2 that or maybe less your side.

So back on the 3400's you have bought, iirc the pany B(presuming these unless there is a new 3400 mah cell i dont know about) is good for maybe 4a-5a ish. I cant see the k70 asking more than that per cell so an easy way is to run it on them fully charged and see if it can run/sustain turbo. Heat should not be an issue so it should easily run for 10+mins . If the cells can not cope, the light will drop out of the highest mode..........imho its a simple as that.

So if they work fine and sustain, no need to buy more cells..................might as well wait and test them. When a cell can not handle the load, it will not maintain turbo,may get a short blast then drop down due to , too much sag!

Other opinions may differ, thats what i would do

 

[boo]

Sorry get lost in it all, the cells by the figures are fine at 10a, no issue there!!

Looking closer what confuses me is they are 3400mah cells, only ones i know at 3400 are panasonic B cells...........these are not 10a cells.....ouch on the price too!

You should be able to get 4 x 30Q's for 1/2 that or maybe less your side.

So back on the 3400's you have bought, iirc the pany B(presuming these unless there is a new 3400 mah cell i dont know about) is good for maybe 4a-5a ish. I cant see the k70 asking more than that per cell so an easy way is to run it on them fully charged and see if it can run/sustain turbo. Heat should not be an issue so it should easily run for 10+mins . If the cells can not cope, the light will drop out of the highest mode..........imho its a simple as that.

So if they work fine and sustain, no need to buy more cells..................might as well wait and test them. When a cell can not handle the load, it will not maintain turbo,may get a short blast then drop down due to , too much sag!

Other opinions may differ, thats what i would do

Thanks Ven.
I will try the batteries I bought first and keep a close eye on them.
If they do not perform well, i`ll buy some 30q s.
And yes, they cost 1/2 what I paid for the ones I bought.

 

[ven]

Best way ,i think they should be fine, be a shame to spend more $'s for a possible no reason!! Its not like it is going to explode, just wont hold the high mode ..........

Now i have not done run time tests , i just used it here and there but i did notice no dramatic heat build up! Being moderate to large light and lots of heat sinking, i found the light got warm in all the right areas(not sure how the standard will but sure it will be fine at 2600 ish lumens!!! hardly a huge output like the k60! ) So decent amounts of turbo should be available until the voltage gets bellow maybe 3.8 or 3.6v(what ever it is) and cant hold the highest output..............

Enjoy!! should be impressed with it

 

[boo]

Thanks again Ven.
I have learned a lot from you and others here that have taken the time
to help me.
I have learned a lot but, still have a lot to learn.
I think I might be hooked on LED lights.

 

[ven]

No problem, i am learning all the time too..................

Did not know your new to LED lights?I thought it was just a case of cells for this light, so is the k70 your 1st.............if so

 

[MAD777]

Evidently boo passed right by the Ray-O-Vac special at Walmart and went for the BIG gun. A quick learner, I'd say!