New H53c AA Headlamp Neutral White High CRI!

[tech25]

To add to this- I use the "double click" feature very often to switch between modes. Now I can program exactly what I want- main modes are my most used and the secondary mode on each level is for longer runtime...

This is my only peeve that I have for my H600fc- On the low level I only want one moonlight mode and double click from there to the lowest of medium modes, with this new UI I would be able to do so.

 

[LightObsession]

maybe you can give examples of crappy modes and the six "readily" available modes that you will use.

For me, the medium options weren't as high as I'd like. Now I can use one of the lower high settings for medium.

 

[Genzod]

For me, the medium options weren't as high as I'd like. Now I can use one of the lower high settings for medium.

I wanted to have 3 high output level settings available to me for running, two medium level settings and only one low level (or alternatively, the lowest medium). I couldn't do that with the H52w.

 

[mellowman]

well I find the sub L, M, H modes to be close enough that I just use L1, M1 and H1. Mostly just use M1.

 

[mellowman]

My apologies, The H52 line did have the boost feature. I was ready to sleep but ZL sent me the reply, guess I didn't check very carefully lol.

About the voltage part, note that ZL is referring specifically to the old SC5 series, and the LEDs used in SC5Fd/c are XM-L2 easywhite, which is 6V. I think this makes sense as the high CRI variation of H52, H502d/c, used Philips LUXEON T instead of XM-L2 easywhite. Compared with these two, the H53c has 95 more lumens on max, and ~10 CRI increase. Note that H502d/c do not support 14500 (but still feature an operating voltage range of 0.7-4.2V) but the SC52d does.

Based on the operating voltage of all variations of the older SC5, I'm guessing that all of them have the same exact circuit that is capable of driving a 6V LED, while dropping 14500 support, so it came down to choices, people either pick the SC52/H52 line for 14500 support, or SC5 if they are looking for good tint & CRI while pumping out impressive lumens (maximum brightness for SC5Fd/c is 375 lumens, 185 higher than H502d/c) but brightness wise SC5 basically rendered the need of a 14500 moot as SC5 can produce 500+ lumens with a standard Eneloop, while SC52/H52 could only crank out 300 lumens with said battery choice.

Back to what ZL said: They probably kept the same driver for SC5c Mk II for the 475lm boost (evident by the no 14500 support), but like they said, the said driver is too large for the H53. Compared to XM-L2 which has a typical forward voltage of 2.85V @ 700mA, XP-L2 is rated at 2.82V @ 1050mA, so ZL probably redesigned the H53's driver (the new fancy user programmable mode groups, remember?) so it could drive the XP-L2 fully. My educated guess is that the combination of SC5's large drive, difference between LEDs and the addition of the user programmable mode groups made ZL to drop 14500 support for the H53 line, which makes sense.

Off topic: Now that I got some sleep (going to get some more), I see ZL mentioning SC53 in their reply.

6V is too much for these LEDs. You looked up the ratings below that contradict the 6V statements above yourself. The note about 502d suggest that they kept the same driver but even 4.2V is too much for the Luxeon LED. Again I think the 6V is a typo, and the new driver need to boost 1.2V to at most 3V (for boost mode). And if ZL says new driver doesn't fit then I can't argue since I have no knowledge of its design.

However, looking at the data sheet the voltage of an H1 of 285lm is ~2.75V and with an boost H1 of 500lm is ~2.9V. Not much difference.

 

[lampeDépêche]

Note that H502d/c do not support 14500 (but still feature an operating voltage range of 0.7-4.2V) but the SC52d does.

It does not matter much for this conversation, but I'll say it all the same: the H502w works *very well* with a 14500 at the 500lumen level.

Maybe there is some reason that the Luxeons in the H502d/c won't handle the boost. But the H502w with the XML works like a charm.

(The only trick is finding a 14500 that is short enough: the 14500 that ZL sells is too long. I use AW IMR red-labels).

 

[TCY]

6V is too much for these LEDs. You looked up the ratings below that contradict the 6V statements above yourself. The note about 502d suggest that they kept the same driver but even 4.2V is too much for the Luxeon LED. Again I think the 6V is a typo, and the new driver need to boost 1.2V to at most 3V (for boost mode). And if ZL says new driver doesn't fit then I can't argue since I have no knowledge of its design.

However, looking at the data sheet the voltage of an H1 of 285lm is ~2.75V and with an boost H1 of 500lm is ~2.9V. Not much difference.

Are we not talking about the same thing or am I looking at the wrong data here? I'm confused. Out of all the LEDs we talked about, only the XM-L2 easywhite has a forward voltage of ~6V @ 700mA. My point was that ZL probably used the exact same driver for all of the SC5 variants so it can drive the 6V easywhites in SC5Fd/c without having to design another driver, but on the H52 line they used another driver which added 14500 support but dropped the heavy boost to 6V capability in order to shrink the driver a little bit, as evidenced by ZL's reply "One direct consequence of the SC5 driver's 'sophistication' is that the components wont' fit in the H52/H53/SC52/SC53 boards". The H53 line dropped 14500 support to make (physical and/or software) space for the user programmable UI groups. It's basically a choice for ZL: to get the boost mode for H53, either shrink the SC5 driver, which is not their priority at the moment, or drop the new UI and get 14500 support instead. ZL went for the new UI which I find completely reasonable.

 

[TCY]

It does not matter much for this conversation, but I'll say it all the same: the H502w works *very well* with a 14500 at the 500lumen level.

Maybe there is some reason that the Luxeons in the H502d/c won't handle the boost. But the H502w with the XML works like a charm.

(The only trick is finding a 14500 that is short enough: the 14500 that ZL sells is too long. I use AW IMR red-labels).

My guesstimate is that ZL dropped 14500 support on the H53 to make space for the new programmable UI. Personally I like this choice :thumbsup:

 

[mellowman]

Are we not talking about the same thing or am I looking at the wrong data here? I'm confused. Out of all the LEDs we talked about, only the XM-L2 easywhite has a forward voltage of ~6V @ 700mA. My point was that ZL probably used the exact same driver for all of the SC5 variants so it can drive the 6V easywhites in SC5Fd/c without having to design another driver, but on the H52 line they used another driver which added 14500 support but dropped the heavy boost to 6V capability in order to shrink the driver a little bit, as evidenced by ZL's reply "One direct consequence of the SC5 driver's 'sophistication' is that the components wont' fit in the H52/H53/SC52/SC53 boards". The H53 line dropped 14500 support to make (physical and/or software) space for the user programmable UI groups. It's basically a choice for ZL: to get the boost mode for H53, either shrink the SC5 driver, which is not their priority at the moment, or drop the new UI and get 14500 support instead. ZL went for the new UI which I find completely reasonable.

6V is for the easywhite leds which are 4 dies in what is usually 1 die. This is a confusing part as all the XM-L2 flashlight/headlight versions listed by ZL are NOT the easywhite version including the SC5s. Only the new hi cri ones with the XP-L2 say easywhite. However cree has no datasheet or listing that I can find for XP-L2 easywhite, everything points to to XM-L2 easywhite which again isn't being used by ZL in the SC5, SC5w, SC5F, SC5wF, the regular XM-L2 is.

So yea, if it is an XP-L2 easywhite in the H53c that for whatever reason Cree doesn't even list for sale, then yes 6V otherwise the first table is correct.

So I still think 6V is an error on ZL side as well as for listing XP-L2 easywhite when I think is just regular XP-L2.

Also, I don't think the UI is completely new micro-controller. If it is there is no reason to think it would be substantially bigger than the old one. The UI is not all that different.

Seems to me ZL is saying the size of the inductor for the boost circuit to support boost mode doesn't fit.

edit: If it is 4 dies in 1, and thus 6V, I'd be very concerned about the beam pattern. Glad I haven't pre-ordered, definitely wait for reviews.

 

[TCY]

6V is for the easywhite leds which are 4 dies in what is usually 1 die. This is a confusing part as all the XM-L2 flashlight/headlight versions listed by ZL are NOT the easywhite version including the SC5s. Only the new hi cri ones with the XP-L2 say easywhite. However cree has no datasheet or listing that I can find for XP-L2 easywhite, everything points to to XM-L2 easywhite which again isn't being used by ZL in the SC5, SC5w, SC5F, SC5wF, the regular XM-L2 is.

So yea, if it is an XP-L2 easywhite in the H53c that for whatever reason Cree doesn't even list for sale, then yes 6V otherwise the first table is correct.

So I still think 6V is an error on ZL side as well as for listing XP-L2 easywhite when I think is just regular XP-L2.

Also, I don't think the UI is completely new micro-controller. If it is there is no reason to think it would be substantially bigger than the old one. The UI is not all that different.

Seems to me ZL is saying the size of the inductor for the boost circuit to support boost mode doesn't fit.

If it is easywhite I"d be very concerned about the beam pattern. Glad I haven't pre-ordered, definitely wait for reviews.

I understand where the confusion is coming from. Please check out the SC5Fd/SC5Fc product page, these two SC5 variants has XM-L2 easywhite inside: LED: Cree XM-L2 EasyWhite (Typical CRI: 83-85, Nominal CCT 4000K). I never mentioned anything about a XP-L2 easywhite variant because it doesn't exist.

 

[mellowman]

Well the product page for H53c says XP-L2 easywhite LED. I think it's just a confusion on how Cree introduced the easywhite term with the 4 in 1 dies. I don't think any ZL uses a 4 in 1 die and I think Cree meant it as a color binning guarantee.

Yet the email ZL sent you said 6V.

The 6V is for 4 die in 1 LED versions.

But Cree doesn't list such a thing for XP-L2.

so kinda confusing.

 

[Random Dan]

Well the product page for H53c says XP-L2 easywhite LED. I think it's just a confusion on how Cree introduced the easywhite term with the 4 in 1 dies. I don't think any ZL uses a 4 in 1 die and I think Cree meant it as a color binning guarantee.

Yet the email ZL sent you said 6V.

The 6V is for 4 die in 1 LED versions.

But Cree doesn't list such a thing for XP-L2.

so kinda confusing.

The H600Fc/d and SC5Fc/d used the 6V 4-die XM-L2 easywhites. That's why they only came with frosted lenses, to smooth out the beam from multi-die leds.

The XP-L2 easywhites are single-die.

 

[TCY]

Well the product page for H53c says XP-L2 easywhite LED. I think it's just a confusion on how Cree introduced the easywhite term with the 4 in 1 dies. I don't think any ZL uses a 4 in 1 die and I think Cree meant it as a color binning guarantee.

Yet the email ZL sent you said 6V.

The 6V is for 4 die in 1 LED versions.

But Cree doesn't list such a thing for XP-L2.

so kinda confusing.

Now that I look back I find my word choices misleading. I meant that 6V XP-L2 easywhite doesn't exist as the XP-L2 line uses a single-die setup, eliminating the need for high voltage as we find on the XM-L2 easywhite variant. The 6V requirement ZL mentioned refers to the XM-L2 easywhite used in their flashlights and headlamps which requires a boost to 6V. For AA based SC5Fd/SC5Fc which uses eneloop, ZL designed a driver to boost the voltage to 6V to drive the XM-L2 easywhite but said driver is too large to fit into other AA-based offering at the moment.

 

[mellowman]

Now that I look back I find my word choices misleading. I meant that 6V XP-L2 easywhite doesn't exist as the XP-L2 line uses a single-die setup, eliminating the need for high voltage as we find on the XM-L2 easywhite variant. The 6V requirement ZL mentioned refers to the XM-L2 easywhite used in their flashlights and headlamps which requires a boost to 6V. For AA based SC5Fd/SC5Fc which uses eneloop, ZL designed a driver to boost the voltage to 6V to drive the XM-L2 easywhite but said driver is too large to fit into other AA-based offering at the moment.

Why would ZL refer to the driver in SC5Fd/SC5Fc when talking about the H53c?

I bet nearly everyone in this thread was hoping for the SC5c mkII driver that has boost mode on eneloops as the driver in the H53c.

 

[TCY]

Why would ZL refer to the driver in SC5Fd/SC5Fc when talking about the H53c?

I bet nearly everyone in this thread was hoping for the SC5c mkII driver that has boost mode on eneloops as the driver in the H53c.

1. SC5's driver is able to boost an AA's voltage to 6V for XM-L2 easywhite in the SC5Fd/c

2. H53 dropped 14500 support for the new programmable UI, hence no boost from 14500

3. SC5's driver is too large for any of their AA based lights, and they are not going to shrink it for now

4. Hence, SC5's driver size > H53's housing, so no boost for H53

 

[mellowman]

1. SC5's driver is able to boost an AA's voltage to 6V for XM-L2 easywhite in the SC5Fd/c

2. H53 dropped 14500 support for the new programmable UI, hence no boost from 14500

3. SC5's driver is too large for any of their AA based lights, and they are not going to shrink it for now

4. Hence, SC5's driver size > H53's housing, so no boost for H53

They have a SC5 driver that doesn't boost to 6V to have a boost mode with a XP-L2 on eneloops, its in the SC5c mkII. What part of that aren't you getting. The driver for SC5Fd/c is irrelevant as it is for a 6V LED, a different LED.

and #2 is pure speculation.

frankly not having boost in H53c seems more like a marketing move than a technical one. so I"m passing, maybe ZL will have a worthy upgrade next year.

 

[scs]

Wait. Hasn't ZL responded in writing that 14500 support is removed in the H53 so they can use a less expensive boost only driver to lower the retail price of the light; and the boost driver in the SC5 mk2 is too sophisticated, too expensive, and most importantly of all, too large at the moment to fit into the H53? What are you guys still arguing about?

 

[holygeez03]

I would gladly pay the extra $10 for 14500 support and a ~500 lumen burst mode... especially if it can last a few minutes.

 

[Genzod]

I would gladly pay the extra $10 for 14500 support and a ~500 lumen burst mode... especially if it can last a few minutes.

ZL had a choice. They could wait until they could get around to fitting the more expensive SC5 mk II driver with its inductors onto the H53c board, or they could introduce the new UI now with a lower price. I guess they thought we could forgive them easier with the teaser of a lower price.

It would have suited me better if they had waited. I need boost because their throw is so short at 285 lumens. I need to check for trail markers. I needed the UI as well, to help me tailor my light to need for better economy running long distances up and down inclines with mail drops and the lightest possible pack weight (fewer batteries--trying to keep pack weight between 5-6 lbs so I can carry sufficient of food. Going beyond 20 lbs for a 2-3 day trek starts to become uncomfortable in a fastpack). Now with this release, I feel like I'm going to have to wait a lot longer for them to upgrade it than otherwise would have expected if they had waited for it to all come together.

The H53 shaves about a half ounce off the AT compacts. Not a lot to everyone except maybe a long distance mountain trail runner or ultralight backpacker, people looking the keep their packs within the window of a target weight.

Oh, well. That's the market. You can't please everyone--they aren't all the same. I'm sure there's quite a few people who will be thrilled at the thought of the $59 price and wink at the loss of a few minutes boost, happy with the color and warm light. But I do believe a lot of people who are really into ZL and follow them closely were disappointed thinking the H53c was going to have the performance of the SC5c Mk II.

I was one of those.

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you Doris Day, Que Sera Sera (1964):

 

[TCY]

They have a SC5 driver that doesn't boost to 6V to have a boost mode with a XP-L2 on eneloops, its in the SC5c mkII. What part of that aren't you getting. The driver for SC5Fd/c is irrelevant as it is for a 6V LED, a different LED.

and #2 is pure speculation.

frankly not having boost in H53c seems more like a marketing move than a technical one. so I"m passing, maybe ZL will have a worthy upgrade next year.

I'm back with ZL's official response to end this debate once and for all.

"The SC5 Mk I driver has only one version, for both regular SC5 and SC5Fd/Fc. The SC5 Mk II driver is a slightly improved version of the Mk I -- more powerful and more efficient. If we were to put XM-L2s in the Mk II driver, we'd see the measurable improvements. Yes, this driver is too big for the H53/SC53 body, and we don't plan to shrink it in the near future.

The H53/SC53/H503 driver is a slightly improved version of the H52/SC52/H502 driver. Again, if we were to put the same (bin) XM-L2 LED in the H53, we'd see some improvements there (in output and efficiency). On top of that, the new UI requires more memory space. Dropping off the 14500 support is among the very few options we had."

So all my speculations were correct, and from the reply we can derive the conclusion that ZL is not dropping 14500 support on the H53 to differentiate product.

Now that we have the official response, let's wrap it up and get back to topic before a moderator shows up.