New HL from Petzl: Pixa series

[bogmonster]

The light looks a bit awkward to me. It is not really bright enough for a primary caving light - maybe it would have been 10 years ago while lots of people were still using incan. As a backup there is plenty of light but it is too big really unless going in a pack. Due to its size it will be difficult to mount on a helmet alongside a primary light unless you primary is smaller than your backup. Maybe if your primary is easily removable it would be ok as long as you were happy not to have it ready to run on your helmet (not ideal for SRT or on difficult climbs).

I use either a side mounted hand held and / or a H51 (dubious about reliability) as these can be helmet mounted alongslide my primary wheras the Pixa could not due to its size. It is also too big to comfortably fit in an oversuit pocket for snug caves.

If it had Myo RXP outup levels then it would be a much better proposition and could be used as a low end primary in a pinch. Otherwise I would just go down the Myo RXP route and make sure the battery compartment is dried out after each trip.


Looks like a good rugged worklight though.

 

[Bolster]

Wow...H51 gets dinged for reliability, but Myo RXP is OK even though the battery compartment leaks? Have you experienced an H51 failure?

 

[bogmonster]

Wow...H51 gets dinged for reliability, but Myo RXP is OK even though the battery compartment leaks? Have you experienced an H51 failure?

Not saying the Myo RXP is any more reliable than the H51, would not know. I would not really want to rely on the Myo RXP or the H51. I do know a few people who cave with RXPs as light weight primary lights and they appear quite reliable and the head is reasonably water proof. The battery compartment is not but not a big deal if it gets water in it as long as you dry it afterwards. Otherwise everything goes nasty. I do have an H51 and it does let moisture in but it has not failed yet.

The other issue with the H51 is that if you need to change batteries underground it is difficult to not get crud in the main light. Not a problem with the Myo RXP as you only get crud in the battery compartment where it can do less damage.

At least with the Myo RXP you can use it as a primary (and H51), the Pixa is not really bright enough for this.

For a backup I am much happier with direct drive, non regulated lights without clicky switches and fully waterproof. Neither the H51, Myo RXP or Pixa meet these criteria. The only reason I sometimes use the H51 as a backup is because it fits under my primary light whereas my preferred backup is cable tied to the side of the helmet and can get in the way in tight caves. Don't get me wrong, the H51 is a fine light but I am not 100% confident in it. If anything, I tend to use the H51 as a very light weight primary on tight caves and when digging and carry a backup in my pocket.

I did buy the H51 in preference to the Myo RXP mainly because of its smaller size (initially bought it as a backup). I would buy the Myo RXP over the Pixa because of size and usability (can be used as a primary). However, not really sure any of the above are great backups for the reasons stated. I can live with a primary that is not 100% reliable, but the backup must be close.

Also, sure the Pixa as a great light, just don't see it as meeting many of my requirements as an ideal caving light (backup or primary).

 

[robostudent5000]

Also, sure the Pixa as a great light, just don't see it as meeting many of my requirements as an ideal caving light (backup or primary).

you seem to have some harsh things to say about lights that weren't designed for your preferred use. maybe they don't work well for caving because they just weren't made for caving. kind of like saying you got an Aston Martin, took it off road, and you were disappointed by it's performance.

the PT Attitude that you like so much started out as a dive light, so it's actually overbuilt for caving.

i'm curious what you use as your primary caving lamp.

also curious what other lights you have/ have had. so far i gather you have a PT Attitude and a Zebra H51, but what else?

 

[bogmonster]

you seem to have some harsh things to say about lights that weren't designed for your preferred use. maybe they don't work well for caving because they just weren't made for caving. kind of like saying you got an Aston Martin, took it off road, and you were disappointed by it's performance.

the PT Attitude that you like so much started out as a dive light, so it's actually overbuilt for caving.

i'm curious what you use as your primary caving lamp.

also curious what other lights you have/ have had. so far i gather you have a PT Attitude and a Zebra H51, but what else?

I mentioned the caving backup use case as some people expressed the view that the Pixa was ideally suited to this task. I don't really see that. Does not mean it is not a good light.
I have the following lights:

1. Oldham headset with Custom Duo Pitlamp LED conversion and Speliotechnics headlite battery and custom AA battery pack - 400lm - reliable and very robust headset.
2. Petzl Duo with Custom Duo LED inserts - 350lm - very plasicy and has suffered broken connection. Otherwise not bad.
3. Speliotechnics Headlite - retired as too unreliable - switch contacts are not very good and battery contacts are even worse.
4. Speliotechnics FX3 - not many lumens - gathering dust.
5. A couple of old carbide lamps.
6. Petzl Tika (not sure which version) - broken, full of cave gunk.
7. Mk 1 Petzl zoom - broken, canibalized for parts, especially great battery box.
8. Zebralight H51 - lets in moisture but still working.
9. PT Attitude - 30lm - backup light - 100% reliable so far
10. Numerous MagLites and other lights.

I dont own but have used:

1. Little Monkey Huricane - great light but quite pricy - might buy one of there.
2. Speliotechnics Super Nova.
3. Petzl Myo RXP - great light in my opinion, reliable, small, reasonably bright - not too rugged so maybe not the best backup.
4. Speliotechnics headset with Mine Explorer LED conversion - 350lm - good LED module, poor headset - would me much better in the Oldham.
5. Underwater Kinetics eLED 4AA light - good backup but a bit too big.

For my next primary it will either be an Oldham with Mine Explorer LED insert and Lithiom Ion battery pack - good cheap solution

Alternatively I will get the next Little Monkey light.
For backup I will stick with the trusty PT Attitude as I am very happy with it.

For a backup caving light I am quite happy to have 'overspec' as caving is a very harsh environment where light failure can be dangerous.

 

[uk_caver]

The headlite battery boxes do generally seem to respond positively to some gentle maintenance (I've only owned one, and that doesn't really count - found at the bottom of a deep pool, and only used as part of a demo setup for an LED insert), but I've serviced a few, as well as servicing a load of FX2s/FX3s over the years which have similar contact issues).
The headset switch contacts can be pretty bad - I've had a go at a few when fitting LED inserts into them, but since my higher-end inserts only use the switch for signalling rather than power supply, borderline contacts are less of an issue for me than with some other units.

Personally, even though I carry backup lights, I really can't recall ever having used one (excluding lending to other people)
The electric unit on my Laser carbide/electric setup with a non-halogen bulb was boringly reliable and had a good battery life, and the accompanying Fisma acetylene generators were pretty reliable if looked after properly - maybe a non-field-repairable failure once every 3 or 4 years of good use.
When I started making LED lights I went for twin-beam with independent drivers for each LED, internal redundancy within each driver and a solid battery connection, so it would take quite a lot of misfortune to stop them working.

I wouldn't use an RXP as a backup - I've seen a couple misbehave simply as a result of getting damp (not even meaningfully wet).

For a caving backup, I think there's a lot to be said for something like an E01 - low power so limited chance of heat issues, adequate light for moving with dark-adapted eyes, enough runtime for me to get out of pretty much anywhere I'm likely to be even if I don't have a spare cell, and small enough that it doesn't get in the way the 99.whatever% of the time I don't need it.
I may carry other lights as well at times, (my Zebralight is a really good light for underground camping) but I /always/ have the E01.

As for the Pixa, as I think I said before the original thread disappeared, from the size/output/design and even colour scheme, it looks like a working light whose natural home is a toolbox.
It may happen to be good for other uses as well, but maybe more by accident than design.

I like the Pixa3, but I don't personally have a niche it fits into.

 

[robostudent5000]

For a backup caving light I am quite happy to have 'overspec' as caving is a very harsh environment where light failure can be dangerous.

yeah, stick with the Princeton Tec dive lights. those things are dead reliable. i don't think any of the general use headlamps on the market will do it for you.

 

[gcbryan]

UKCaver, nice post. I'm not a caver but it's interesting to read of some of the equipment design needs for that environment.

Dual beam with independent drivers sounds interesting. I'm into redundancy however in hiking/climbing and diving I think it generally makes more sense to just carry two light mainly because two beams doesn't work well underwater and for climbing it uses too much battery power. I like to read about a really robust design though.

I tend to have a A3 around my neck and tucked into my shirt whatever I"m doing where light might be an issue. It's usually a 3rd backup.

I hadn't thought of a Zebralight for underground uses but there is an easy walk-in lava tube formation fairly close to where I live and I think the Zebralight would be great in that application.

What is the toughest condition that a caving light has to deal with? Is it water or being treated roughly? I was just wondering if dive lights would make good cave lights (backup at least)?

 

[uk_caver]

Dual beam with independent drivers sounds interesting.

It was intentional, but would have been fairly hard to avoid anyway - given the available space, suitably small microcontrollers that fitted on stripboard for the prototype didn't have enough pins to drive two LEDs with the driver design I wanted to use.

I'm into redundancy however in hiking/climbing and diving I think it generally makes more sense to just carry two light mainly because two beams doesn't work well underwater and for climbing it uses too much battery power.

Actually, I think that for caving/walking, having twin blendable beams can potentially save power.
Given flood and spot beams with power levels (extra-low, low, medium, high) about a factor of 3 apart, a medium flood with added low (or even extra-low) spot might well be more usable than a full-power flood - having the right (ie small) amount of spot in the mix can seem to increase the throw of the flood even outside the spot's area - I think it's a mental effect of semi-distant things borderline-lit by the flood seeming to stay subjectively more visible once they've been better lit by the spot moving over them and properly seen.

I hadn't thought of a Zebralight for underground uses but there is an easy walk-in lava tube formation fairly close to where I live and I think the Zebralight would be great in that application.

Personally, I find the 'pure' flood of my H50 a bit flat - the flood on my caving light is more forward-biased, and that does seem distinctly more useful for walking. Also, my flood isn't exactly smooth - there is some unevenness as well as the forward biasing, and I think the unevenness may help on 'visually flat' surfaces like muddy floors, where a smooth flood can make it fairly hard to see the relief - having beam imperfections seems to give the eye a bit of help in triangulating things and judging distances.

What is the toughest condition that a caving light has to deal with? Is it water or being treated roughly? I was just wondering if dive lights would make good cave lights (backup at least)?

Small dive torches can be useful backups, though they do tend to be single power, and caving can have very variable light needs.

 

[gcbryan]

There are magnetic based ring systems on dive lights now that are variable power. They aren't exactly designed for muddy conditions or hitting against the walls in a cave but it's something to look at as they are both designed for harsh conditions. I rarely use anything but high in diving but for hiking I generally use everything but high.

When you mentioned dual beams I was thinking of two beams that were the same. Now that I realize (of course) that you are talking about spot and flood that's more appealing (not for diving but for everything else). Particularly when they both operate at the same time. Most hiking headlamps that I've been around (at least the ones without a separate battery pack) can only do one or the other at the same time.

I like the idea of adjusting the beam profile for the conditions (mix of spot and flood).

I understand the flatness of flood light that you are describing and it can make it hard to see irregular surfaces but I find it pleasing in other ways. When the level is not too high it reminds me of walking about with my own personal moon. I frequently wonder if I need the light at all (thinking that perhaps it's just the ambient light) until I turn it off and all is dark

In getting into more natural looking beams these days rather than the harsh beam profiles we've become (somewhat) accustomed to.

 

[Yucca Patrol]

I like the Pixa3, but I don't personally have a niche it fits into.

As a fellow caver, my niche for it is to throw it in the bottom of my caving pack and know that it will work when/if i ever need it as a backup. And when/if I ever need it, i will be confident that it will survive whatever nasty cave I might happen to be in at the time.

Like you, I love the EO1 as a helmet mounted backup.

 

[ringzero]

As a fellow caver, my niche for it is to throw it in the bottom of my caving pack and know that it will work when/if i ever need it as a backup. And when/if I ever need it, i will be confident that it will survive whatever nasty cave I might happen to be in at the time.

+1

A few times over the years my primary light source (helmet mounted carbide) suffered catastrophic failure - meaning it was unfixable in the cave.

At those times, I'd have been absolutely thrilled to have been able to pull a long runtime Petzl Pixa out of my caving pack and strap it to my helmet!

In my experience the Pixa output of 30 to 40 lumens is plenty of light to make it out of even a fairly demanding cave, because I've found my way out of caves using considerably less light than that.

As somebody mentioned, the Underwater Kinetics 4AA lights are great caving backup lights. Waterproof and very rugged, models are available with outputs from 30 lumens to something over 120 lumens, runtimes from 4 hrs to over 20 hours, and with side, tail, or twisty switches as preferred. These are fairly compact for 4AA lights, so they can be strapped to a helmet as easily as a typical 2AA light.

.

 

[bogmonster]

I don't suppose anybody with a Pixa also has a Petzl Vertex helmet (2011 model). As I understand it the Pixa will clip into a slot at the front of this helmet without using the strap. I really like the Vertex helmets - comfortable, no vat (if you buy as safety equipment), strong and very secure. It would be good if the inbuilt slot would take a cap lamp blade mount for an Oldham / Speleo Technics. If anybody has this helmet a picture of the slot would be great. Alternatively a pic of the fixxing on the back of the Pixa would help. My worry is that fitting a standard metal blade mount to this helmet might now be difficult.

 

[coors]

I finally got around to testing the difference in lumen output of Eneloops vs. Energizer Ultimate lithiums, in the Pixa 1. Eneloops, fresh off charger, are 80-90% less bright than the Ultimates. These particular Ultimates that I used for this testing had been used for 15-20 minutes prior to this test. Also, within a few minutes the Eneloops lose their initial brightness and the light dims back slightly, yet noticeably. I don't know if these findings will hold true for the Pixa 2 and Pixa 3 models.

 

[coors]

Perhaps I worded the above reply in a confusing way. What I should have written is that the Ultimates are giving 80-90% more luminous output, in the Pixa 1, than the Eneloops. If the 80-90% were actually 100%, then that would mean the light output/brightness from using Ultimates would be exactly twice that of the Eneloops.

 

[clemence]

Hi guys,
I bought Pixa3 about 3 months ago. It worked well enough for my various applications (hiking, camping, working, caving, and even snorkelling). I'm very satisfied with this HL although it's not very bright especially when I need to see longer than 30m. The STD Pixa3 lacks beam uniformity (both flood and spot mode). I plan to modify it's optics using a simple sandblasted acrylic piece glued/taped. I'm still looking for the best method to replace the XPE, I have hundreds of R5 XPGs here.
I was wondering why Petzl is using this outdated XPE LED for this product. The most satisfying answer was from Cree's tech. guy: "...In terms of optics efficiency XPE is better than XPG..." (still not enough to prevent me to modify this HL though 8|.
And as for the dim output, I think Petzl designed this prod. to be used in hazardous (flammable) environments. Thus, preventing the use of external heatsink or metal casing (which would be warmer than the surrounding air)

 

[turboBB]

Here are some indoor shots I took as part of my indoor beamshots compilation, the PIXA3 was aimed so that the spot would be centered w/middle of door to be consistent w/other lights.

Flood


Flood/Spot


Spot


Cheers,
Tim

EDIT: Incidentally, the new 3R is forthcoming, too bad the batteries are not compatible and vice versa:
http://www.petzl.com/en/pro/new-pro...e-multibeam-headlamp-configurable-performance

 

[clemence]

Finally, a modified PIXA3 (XPG R5 Mod.)

Yiiiiiihaaa! :wave:

Guys, this is my modified Petzl PIXA3 beam shots.
This HL originally uses two Cree XPE emitters. I replaced them with Cree XPG R5 emitters (binned as: XPGWHT-L1-0000-00H51).



Picture description. (left std, right modified):
- Top low, flood set...ting
Not much lumen difference but, XPG gives a more uniform beam with less abrupt "halo" and bigger center spot.
- Middle: med, flood & spot setting
At higher current XPG start to show it's performance. Notice how the spot is much brighter and gives wider spot.
- Bottom: high, spot setting
XPG definitely knock-outs the XPE. Bigger and brighter beam!

FYI, it was really easy. I used fabric iron at highest setting to remove and replace the LED's. I wasn't so sure that all of the solder perfectly melted (my iron max. temp was only 190C-210C). So, I used a hot air gun set at approx 260C using thermocouple placed near the LED's as a guide.
I don't know how many extra lumen this mod. add. Based on Cree Prod. Characterization Tool (http://pct.cree.com/), at 0.13mA (roughly the current at highest spot setting) XPE should get 49.9lm before all the efficiency loss. At the same current and efficiency loss XPG should get 53.3lm, a net 6.8% improvement in brightness. Bonus, it gets better beam patterns.

 

[clemence]

Re: Finally, a modified PIXA3 (XPG R5 Mod.)

Tonight I'm going to remove the domes. I think I need more throw and also eliminate unwanted stray lights as much as possible. Wish me luck guys!

 

[clemence]

De-domed XPG's R5 on PIXA3

Can't wait until tonight. I succesfully removed all the dome from those XPG's

Here's the picture of the beam shots!





Picture description. (left std, center XPG mod., right XPG mod. + de-domed):
1a. Standard low, flood setting
1b. Not much lumen difference but, a more uniform beam with less abrupt "halo" and bigger center spot.
1c. Warmer yellowish beam. Very clear cut off. The center spot is smaller than std but the areas is much more uniform in brightness. The rectangular shadow below is completely gone

2a. Standard med, flood & spot setting
2b. At higher current XPG start to show it's performance. Notice how the spot is much brighter and gives wider spot.
2c. Bigger, well defined, and much more uniform spot. Very nice beam

3a. Standard high, spot setting
3b. XPG definitely knock-outs the XPE. Bigger and brighter beam but still too much stray lost. Not good for throwing power
3c. Tighter and brighter spot (it's to tell by the pic but it is brighter in reality).

I really like this mod. since the HL is now friendlier to the eyes and also brighter with very nice uniform beam. I don't know if this would also improve the CRI as well.