New light versus diminishing returns

[DocJ]

In the market for a new flashlight. Been using Streamlight for years and really enjoy using my Strion HP. However, recently my wife has gotten us more into exploration of rural and abandoned urban areas. The Strion has never let me down, and though I have no complaints, would like something with more umph. More throw. More spread. Though, I question whether getting a super light is really worthwhile considering diminishing returns versus investment. Will a light at twice the cost of a Streamlight really prove worth the cost? This is particularly why I have never invested in a Surefire. No qualms with what I've seen, but can't do anything better than my Streamlights. For reference, I come from law enforcement background.

The primary contenders I'm looking to get would be a Malkoff Hound Dog Super in cool, a Fenix RC40, or another Strion since I already have chargers and am used to how they function. I'm entirely open to other suggestions, but I'd really like a light that is rechargeable with a performance to put my Strion HP to shame in these new exploration adventures. Particularly when we venture off into the rural landscapes miles away from another soul.

Malkoff HD Super?
Fenix RC40?

Pros and cons and what should I expect with either? And he's, I know that all three options are very different. Just looking for the best and most useable for what I need and can expect out of a light I need to last a good decade or more.

 

[archimedes]

Hello and welcome to CPF

Your post above has been approved.

For quality, Malkoff is unsurpassed, but you seem concerned about cost.

Do you have a specific budget in mind ?

 

[DocJ]

Thank you!

I knew I forgot something. Lol. Budget really isn't of too much concern provided the return on investment is there. I have no qualms spending $300 on a light. Issue is that a new Strion can be had for $86 with the HP head. To invest that much more money.....just need assurance that the quality, durability and the light output is worth the extra cost.

 

[StagMoose]

I can offer my 2 cents since you asked. I'll start off by saying that I am a big Malkoff fan and user. I have used streamlights in the past and still have some. I have also owned and used some of the other nicer chinese lights (fenix, nitecore, etc).

My suggestion is to abandon the idea of a rechargeable light and start using rechargeable batteries. Something like the Fenix has a battery pack and that is great, but are you going to carry a spare one? If you are open to larger lights I'd get something that takes 18650s as they are common and available. You can keep a few sets charged. Most of Malkoff's lights will run at least an hour at full blast on their specified rechargeable battery.

I have an old incan high quality streamlight that takes a battery pack. They aren't available anymore and they aren't worth upgrading from what I can see.

The Hound Dog Super is fantastic as an all around outdoors light. It punches out there, will run at full blast for over an hour or can be very useful on low mode for much longer. Run out of juice? Swap new batteries in and keep going. Chargers are pretty inexpensive and you can use a usb or cig outlet in the car even.

I really like the M61HOT as well or just any M61 in general. They are easily carried, with the high/ low ring they have similar utility as the HD super without as much throw.

These both take the same batteries; 18650s. They can also be upgraded down the road if newer technology evolves and you want to improve your light.

I have found the Malkoff lights to be utterly reliable. More-so than Surefires even, and usually better output in terms of beam profile and runtime.

If I was exploring rural abandoned places, which does sound fun I may want a headlamp and a hand held. I use a Zebralight that takes an 18650 battery. I would likely carry the HD super and a smaller handheld as well. And extra 18650s or CR123s.

If I am correct your current streamlight is putting out under 200 lumens? Any of the newer lights will pleasantly surprise you will how bright they are.

I just find that Malkoff lights always work, have accurate stated runtimes and outputs, and do it without over driving the LED. If you are into nice machining you will appreciate them for that and their rugged simplicity.

I wouldn't spend my own money on one of the various chinese made mega lumen blasters. I have done that and one broke when dropped. My Malkoff lights have some scratches and nicks in the aluminum, but they come on and keep working.

Hope that is helpful.
And welcome!

Here are some Beamshots if it helps. I have them posted elsewhere but don't think that matters.


https://imgur.com/a/hTH1RUx

 

[MartinDWhite]

Welcome to CPF.

I personally love my recently acquired Malkoff Hound Dog Super, there is a dedicated thread on them ( https://www.candlepowerforums.com/v...The-definitive-Malkoff-Hound-Dog-Super-thread ). I love the older Hound Dogs, and Wildcats I have also. I think something important to consider is the runtime and the low level to use while exploring. Sucks to run out of light or be so bright it is unusable. BTW, I am a little biased about Malkoffs and think they are the best lights EVER!

 

[archimedes]

.... To invest that much more money.....just need assurance that the quality, durability and the light output is worth the extra cost.

The concept of "value" can be somewhat elusive, and in the eye of the beholder.

Are Malkoffs "worth" what they cost ?

Well, they are, to me. And presumably to everyone else who buys one. Or they wouldn't.

I'd give examples of other types of tools, as an analogy, but I don't know specifically with what else you might be familiar.

Watches, wrenches, binoculars, cars, maybe something else ?

Buy once, cry once, is a saying I've heard ....

 

[richbuff]

It is not easy to reply to "Suggest Me A Light" posts, because there is a very, very wide range of budgets, and a very, very wide range of subjective and objective quality needs, and a very, very wide range of size, runtime, power, tint and beam profile options, and a very, very wide range of usage needs.

When I was new, I read lots and lots of flashlight reviews for ultra budget, budget, semi-budget, low-mid, mid-range, upper mid range, lower upper, mid upper and jewelry class lights. I finally bought my first real performance light, based on hours and days of reading research. A few months later, "newer, richer, thicker, bigger, does more" came along.

For a small/normal size light with mid range performance, there are so many lights available. Look at what is available. That will take some time, because there is so much available. Then buy what you like and what is priced at what you would like to pay.

Happy Hunting, and :welcome:

 

[DocJ]

Thank you for all the welcomes! After this bit of advice, I definitely feel better investing in a Malkoff. With the requests of suggestions, it was more of a "will the HD Super really fit my needs" and the suggestion of looking into the M61 line was exactly that. Other offerings certainly worth looking into. I'm honestly not that familiar with Malkoff's offerings outside the understanding that the HD Super is essentially their flagship light for the time being. Or, that's been my impression regarding the hype around it.

Where does everyone source their 18650 batteries and chargers? Having a few on hand with a car charger would definitely be an advantage on an outing that can take several hours. It's not uncommon for us to be out all night investigating and exploring.

 

[archimedes]

Be aware that the Super Hound Dog is a very specialized Malkoff. I wouldn't consider it their "flagship" model, any more (or any less) than their other models.

Their brand doesn't really work that way.

Think of it kind of like a tool brand which sells a screwdriver, a wrench, a hammer, and pliers. All top quality, which serve different purposes.

Consider "copy-pasting" from the following post ...

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?p=4297899

... as that will greatly help us to help you

 

[DocJ]

1) How would you prefer to purchase the light?

____I would like to purchase the light in person from a brick and mortar store. I am located in ______________.
__X__This will be mail-order or Online (location doesn't matter).


2) Budget: An easy question, but you may change your mind after answering the rest!

____I don't know yet
____Up to $25.
____Up to $50.
____Up to $100.
____Up to $200.
__X__Up to $300.
____Essentially unlimited.


3) Format:

____I am not sure, please help me decide.
__X__I want a flashlight (hand held/self contained).
____I want a self-contained headlamp.
____I want a headlamp with an external pack/power source.
____I want a mounted light (typically for a bicycle or vehicle)
____I want a lantern/area light.
____I want a portable spotlight (it may have an external power source).
____Other ____________________________________________


4) Size:

____MICRO - Keychain size.
____TINY - Every day carry (2-4 inches).
____SMALL - Every day carry (4-7 inches).
__X__MEDIUM - Holster/belt ring carry. (>7 inches)
____LARGE - Big enough to need its own travel case.
____I don't know/I don't care.


5) Emitter/Light source:

__X__LED (known for efficiency, longevity, and compactness)
____Incandescent (known for superior color rendition)
____HID (known for max output, but often at the expense of size)
____I don't know.


6) Manufacturer:

__X__I want to buy a light from a large/traditional manufacturer that is ready to go out of the box.
__X__I would like a light from a specialty manufacturer (Possibly limited run/Custom).
____I am interested in assembling my own components. (for example a "host" or flashlight body from one manufacturer, and a "drop-in" emitter from another source).


7) What power source do you want to use?

____I intend to use "Primary"/Disposable Alkalinebatteries based on the usual AAA/AA/C/D sized cells common to most stores.
____I intend to use "Primary"/Disposable Lithiumbatteries based on the usual AAA/AA/C/D and CR123 sized cells common to most stores (often a cold weather or long storage choice).
____I intend to use Rechargeable cells (NiMH or NiCD) based on the usual AAA/AA/C/D sized cells common to most stores.
__X__I intend to use Rechargeable cells based on less common formats (18500 or 18650 Li-Ion, RCR123, et-al).
_X___I want a light with an integrated rechargeable battery pack.
____I don't know/I need more information on power sources.

7a) If you have selected a rechargeable option
____I want a light that plugs directly into the wall (literally with prongs built into the light)
____I want a light that has a recharging adapter (your typical "wall wart")
____I want a light that snaps into a cradle (usually mounted on a wall)
____I want a separate/stand-alone charger (this involves removing the batteries to charge)
__X__I don't care


8) How much genuine out the front (OTF) light do you want/need? Sometimes you can have too much light (trying to read up close up with a 100 lumen light is not a happy experience).

____I want to navigate a dark room or read a map (1-10 lumens).
____I want an indoor "blackout" light (15-50 lumens)
____I want to confidently walk around an unlit/unpaved rural area (60-150 lumens).
____I want to illuminate my entire backyard or a campsite (150-300 lumens).
__X__I want to illuminate an entire field, the neighbor's front yard several houses down, impress my friends and neighbors, etc. (300-700 lumens).
_X___I want search and rescue type illumination (800+ lumens).

____SPECIAL NOTE: Burst/Turbo mode Category - There are several lights that will run at a super bright maximum for a very limited period (usually 5-10 minutes) and then will "step-down" to a lower level for thermal control. Check here if this is acceptable.


9) Flood vs Throw: Flood covers an area, Throw reaches out to a distance.

____All Flood: I am doing "arms length" tasks like reading and campsite cooking.
____Wide Flood: I want a defined flood area for semi-close tasks like after-dark campsite tasks or working on a car.
__X__Narrow Flood: I want a sharply defined flood area that will project some distance for tasks like trail walking.
__X__Wide Throw: I want a beam with a noticeable hot-center for distance throw and a significant amount of "side-spill". Good for rough trail hiking, search and rescue, and general distance work.
____Narrow Throw: I want a beam with a very tight "hot center" and minimal "side-spill". Good for distance viewing, fog, and looking through dense undergrowth.
____Turbohead: I want a far-distance projector with a sharply focused spot of light and minimal or zero side-spill. Good for extreme distance and impressing your friends.

9a) Distance: How far away will you typically need to see with this light (check all that apply)
____Less than 1 yard/meter (reading, other close work)
____Less than 5 yards/meters (looking for something inside a dark shed/garage/basement)
____5-20 yards/meters (check out a noise in the backyard)
__X__30-50 yards/meters (I have a big backyard)
_X___50-150 yards/meters (I live in a very rural area/farm with wide open spaces)
____150+ yards (I am searching from a helicopter)

10) Runtime: Not over-inflated manufacturer runtime claims, but usable brightness measured from first activation to 50% with new batteries (Measured on maximum continuous output).

____Up to 30 minutes (I want the brightest [and potentially smallest] light for brief periods)
____30-60 minutes (I have plenty of batteries just ready to be changed)
__X__90-120 minutes (Runtime is moderately important, but still not critical)
____3 hours + (I critically need this light to run on max for extended periods in between battery changes/charges).




11) Durability/Usage: Generally the old phrase "you get what you pay for" is very accurate for flashlights.

____Not Important (A "night-stand" light).
____Slightly Important (Walks around the neighborhood).
____Very Important (Camping, Backpacking, Car Glove-box).
__X__Critical (Police, Fire, Search & Rescue, Caving, Survival).
____I don't know.


12) Switch Size, Type, and location (choose all that apply):

____Any size switch will do.
____I need a BIG switch (I'll be using gloves or have very large hands or coordination issues).
____I want a forward clicky (Helpful for momentary activation and signaling).
____I want a reverse clicky (For use with multi-mode/level lights).
____I want a momentary switch (Predominantly for use with signaling and short bursts of momentary light only).
____I want a twisty switch (Tighten the head/tailcap to activate, and the light will stay on until the head/tailcap is loosened).
____I want a body mounted switch (near the head, like on a Maglite).
____I want a tail mounted switch (found on the majority of today's high end lights).
____I want a remote switch (usually found on high-end bicycle headlights)
_X___I don't care.
____I don't know.
____Other, please specify____________________.


13) User Interface (UI) and mode selection. Select all that apply.

____A simple on-off with only one output level is fine for me.
_X___I want 2 light levels. (Brighter/short runtime and Dimmer/long runtime.)
__X__I want multiple light levels. (Some lights have 5-16 light levels.)
____I want a programmable light.
____I want a selector ring.
____I want a strobe mode. (Oscillating pattern to confuse/blind aka "Police Mode")
____I want SOS mode. (blinks in ...---... emergency pattern)
____I want a beacon mode. (Regular flashes at full power to show location.)
____I don't care.
____I don't know.


14)Material/Finish/Coating

____Plastic/composite body (this may limit your choices significantly).
__X__Anodized Aluminum – either type II or III (Hard Anodized) (Aluminum, specifically HA, is the most common material/finish for today's higher end flashlights).
____Stainless steel (durable, but much heavier than aluminum)
_X___Titanium (durable and nearly as lightweight as aluminum, but can be moderately to significantly more expensive).
__X__I don't care.
____I don't know.
____Other, please specify____________.

15) Water resistance
____None needed
__x__IPX4 (Splash resistant)
____IPX7 (Waterproof to 1 meter/30min)
____IPX8 (Submersible to greater than 1 meter for 4 hours)

16) Storage conditions
__x__In house (temperature/climate controlled environment)
____Emergency kit (long standby periods)
____Automobile glove-box (wide temperature swings, long standby periods, critical reliability)
____Other_________________________________________ ____


17) Special Needs/extras: Is there anything else you want or need that hasn't been mentioned? Select any/all below.

____Red filter (for preserving night vision).
____Other filter colors (Amber, Green, Blue, _________).
____Dedicated R/G/B secondary LEDs.
____"Hybrid" light (bright incandescent combined with long running LEDs)
____Pocket/belt clip
____Holster
____Wrist/Neck Lanyard
____Crenulated bezel
____Non-sparking, Intrinsically Safe (IS) for use in explosive environments

 

[archimedes]

Now we're cookin' ...

 

[archimedes]

Based on your responses above, I would suggest looking at the Hound Dog 18650, instead of the Super

 

[peter yetman]

Correct answer.
Cool or neutral?
Would you like me to wrap it for you, or will you wear it now?

I was going to say XM-L Hound Dog, but this one is shorter.
P

 

[archimedes]

The other nice bonus is that it is MD2-based.

Might as well get started on lego options

 

[DocJ]

I already started another thread on cool vs neutral as that is a big....wow...overwhelming decision I didn't realize I would need to make. haha

Thanks to StagMoose, I AM looking at the M61 Hot MD2 and a couple other models in that range. So...I may start with one of those. I'm not a fast decision maker.

It looks like whether I go with an MD2 design, or a Hound Dog, regardless of model, they all take the 18650 batteries. Seems pretty convenient should I build up a few so they all take the same juice.

HOWEVER! If you could explain the lego options a bit more...I get that some heads and bodies can be interchanged, but how congruent is that amongst the line? Could I get an M61 MD2 and swap parts with the HD Super? Stupid questions, I'm sure, but curiousity is stirring here.

 

[archimedes]

The main issue is ensuring the voltage is correct for whatever combination you are considering.

 

[peter yetman]

All the heads, tails and bodies in ther MD range (not MDC) are interchangeable,
but as Arch says you have to pay attention to the Voltage requirements on the business end. For instance, you can't put an M31 drop in on a pair of 18650 cells as it will burn out. Some heads / drop ins have a minimum requirement of voltage so they won't light up on a single CR123 cell.
It's not very complicated, Gene gives all the voltages on his website, plus there's people here who just know.
P

 

[novice]

Also, the Surefire discontinued "legacy design" tailcap/switch assemblies for the C/P/Z/G series are compatible with the Malkoff MDx series. Which means that if you get an MDx light with a clicky tailcap, and if you wanted to try a Surefire Z41/nitrolon Z72 "twisty" (temporary push/permanent screw-down) tailcap because it suited your needs, that would work too.

 

[bykfixer]

Another Strion gets my vote.

 

[DocJ]

Another Strion gets my vote.

I'm very curious to hear your reasoning. Granted, I have the equipment to incorporate it readily into my current set up. But, this is the first post to say anything other than encouraging a change to Malkoff.