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NexGen flickering reports

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Chop

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Hey guys,

I'm kind of going to use this thread as a data gathering tool. What I'm looking for is data on lights that are flickering and lights that aren't flickering in low mode.

What I need to know is the following:

1. What is the bias of your Nexgen?
2. Are you using a 123 or li-ion?
3. What is the bin of your luxeon, if you know?
4. Are you getting the flicker after dropping down into low mode from high mode?
5. Are you getting the flicker going to low mode from the off position?
6. What is the resistance of your switch?
7. Did you test your light on a fresh battery?

Please feel free to add any other information that you think is pertinent.

If you aren't seeing any flicker, I'd also be interested in what ever questions apply. Like the bias of your NexGen and the bin of your emitter along with the resistance of your switch.

It is not my intention that this thread be used as a question and answer forum, I'm just using it to gather data.

Thanks,
 
Two NexGen 1000's and one NexGen 500 tested:

I have not seen flickering even with the lights up to steady state temp and then switched to low. I either have three samples that are not effected or my eyes are such that I am not a good judge here. On the NG500, I could get noticible (but not bothersome) flickering with a 22 ohm switch once the light was warm.

All three examples are with TW0K LED's.
 
The flickering, if looking directly at the led is hard to notice.
By putting on a reflector and shining it to a wall makes the flickering very obvious.
Regards
 
Takifugu,
Thanks! I don't look at the LED either! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif I *am* referring to the beam on a projected object or wall. Well either I have insensitive eyes to this or I haven't seen an offender yet. I hope it's the latter!
 
Sorry about that /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif
2 out of 2 nextgen 500mA + TWOK + 16 ohm resistor flickered so that's 100%.
Am I unlucky or someting? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif
I think that the flickering on mine is so obvious that anyone can notice it.
Regards
 
Takifugu, you are not alone. My NextGen BB500 is flickering as well.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
 
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Hiya Chop and folks. I ran the light on high for 8.5 minutes then dropped it down to low.

Here are the specs:

1. What is the bias of your Nexgen?
Eh? (I am not technically up to speed) NexGen500ma driver

2. Are you using a 123 or li-ion?
123 cell, pretty fresh, Battery Station variety

3. What is the bin of your luxeon, if you know?
TX0J

4. Are you getting the flicker after dropping down into low mode from high mode?

Not really, see "Other" comment below.

5. Are you getting the flicker going to low mode from the off position?
No.

6. What is the resistance of your switch?
15 ohm

7. Did you test your light on a fresh battery?
Pretty darned fresh, maybe 4 min runtime.

Other: The light was pretty warm at 8.5 minutes, though far from hot. Testing environment - pitch black bathroom with white walls. Dropped from high to low two different ways.

1. twisted cap to back off from high to low. Ever so slight flickering when cap was being twisted slowly - just slight flickers as the cap was being twisted, but not when the twisting action came to a stop.

2. turned the cap to constant on (low) and used the button for temporary high burst. No flickering whatsoever.

When the light was turned completely off, and then the two methods of high-low, or low-high-low switching previously described were used, the results were identical.

Edited to add: just tried the test with fresh Surefire, Yuntong, Tekcell, and Toshiba 123s with no flickering.
 
Am I to understand that we are only seeing flickering when using a 123 rather than an R123?
 
1. What is the bias of your Nexgen?
1000 mA
2. Are you using a 123 or li-ion?
Flickering only occurs with primary cells. li-ions (4.2 volt r123s) don't flicker no matter what I do to `em.
3. What is the bin of your luxeon, if you know?
TWOH, TWOK
4. Are you getting the flicker after dropping down into low mode from high mode?
Yes.
5. Are you getting the flicker going to low mode from the off position?
Yes.
6. What is the resistance of your switch?
15 ohm
7. Did you test your light on a fresh battery?
Yes, fresh SF123a.
 
1. What is the bias of your Nexgen?
400mA

2. Are you using a 123 or li-ion?
123

3. What is the bin of your luxeon, if you know?
TV1J

4. Are you getting the flicker after dropping down into low mode from high mode?
No.At least not visible.

5. Are you getting the flicker going to low mode from the off position?
No.

6. What is the resistance of your switch?
15 ohm

7. Did you test your light on a fresh battery?
Both used and fresh Batterystation 123.

Tested Aleph2 assembled by myself 2 days ago.
 
I posted a concern about low flickering back on Oct 27. Here's my data:

1. 1000
2. 123 and r123
3. twok
4. flickering w/22ohm and cr123 all the time
5. same as above
6. 22ohm
7. Yes
 
[ QUOTE ]
1. twisted cap to back off from high to low. Ever so slight flickering when cap was being twisted slowly - just slight flickers as the cap was being twisted, but not when the twisting action came to a stop.


[/ QUOTE ]
This is almost certainly a contact issue. Will happen with all lights as the shorting nubbin (better word?) leaves the switch contacts. At some point it is just BARELY making contact before going to dim. This isn'te the bugger that we're after.
 
Unfortunately I don't have a NextGen, but I would be interested in the flicker frequency. That might help for the root cause finding. Is it something like 1 per second or 10 per second?
 
CORRECTED REPORT:

NG750 and 1000
fresh and used CR123 ... SF and BS
bin ... TxxJ for both
resistor is 15 and 22 ohms, but can test on 30 and 60 upon request
not flickering when accessing low mode from off and on position regardless of light temperature (based upon insufficient datra right now, this is a guesstimate)
flickering after several minutes in low mode in all configurations, but inconsistently so
flicker is very obvious and irregular, just like when falling out of regulation, there is no fixed frequency and/or rhythm

more to come

bernie
 
1. What is the bias of your Nexgen?
500 mA

2. Are you using a 123 or li-ion?
cr123

3. What is the bin of your luxeon, if you know?
Don't know...

4. Are you getting the flicker after dropping down into low mode from high mode?
Yes, once it gets hot on high and I drop it to low. Then if I turn it off and
back on low I get it as well.

5. Are you getting the flicker going to low mode from the off position?
See above. I don't get it from off if the light is cool.

6. What is the resistance of your switch?
15 ohm

7. Did you test your light on a fresh battery?
Yes, about 3 mins of use.
 
NG 1000 on 123 , Pila , 15 and 22 ohm :
It flicks ( but it's very hardly noticeable ) after 5 min. on high and then in low .

NG 750
I tried everything with this ( 20 min on high , changed type of batts , changed Mc2ES , heat it with an hairgun ) but it don't want to flick /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif.
 
OK ... a lot of batteries and time later, here''s a chart of my findings that is completely useless, sorry.
I couldn't find a pattern here, and the irregular flickerung that occurs is rather seldom, but it is clearly there nevertheless. It looks like a converter falling out of regulation.

McE2SFlickerTest.jpg


The batteries used were BS123 in all lights.

Interestingly enough the NG1000 proto board has always a brighter low with a higher resistor in the McE2S and can sustain it longer on a depleted battery than the latest NG750 board with a LED of the same bin. Luxeon lottery?

I am unsure about the flickernig issue in the other two lights, but IIRC I saw it there, too, but certainly not often.
The Blackbird however (MadMax+) does it at a regular basis, but it uses the FireFly 2-stage with all the known problems.

bernhard
 
Bernhard,
Thanks for the effort you have gone to here!! Well since all of the boost drivers are trying there best to boost the current as needed, it isn't real surprising to me that there would be some anomolies when these drivers are intentionally starved of voltage.

From a builder's as well as user's standpoint, the question becomes what is an acceeptable level of misbehavior and is it consistant enough to work around and/or accept?!?! Bottom line: Is a certain package viable and worth building or consideration?

My preliminary experimentation with the new Wiz2 was such that I came up with one resistor value that gave you an iffy low level that was definitely prone to flickering and not advisable. One could argue that something (unstable low level in this case) is better than nothing but damn it's pretty ugly!!!

Now with the NexGen, I personally have been more than satisfied with my particular samples and was taken back with the first report to me of a problem! Since my use of these one cell lights is almost always intermittant and not in any constant on mode, I have never encountered the problem but then again, it seems that my samples don't misbehave anyway.

The BadBoy boost circuits don't seem to be plagued nearly as much but then they are not as efficient as the NexGen nor can they provide the high output on a single cell like the NexGen can.

One option that I don't recall whether I have mentioned here on the McE2S as it always seemd like a goofy option is that the two stage switch can be assembled in such a maner that you only have access to the high mode. This assembly can easily be done with a resistor PCB and does not require a special 0 ohm PCB or shorting across the resistor path.

There is a spring in the assembly that usually goes betwen the metal button and the PCB and it forces the PCB away from the button. If you take the assembly apart and place the spring on the other side of the PCB so that it is pushing the PCB into the button, you will have a switch that only allows access to high and the switch behaves similar to the original SF LOTC.

For those of you with NexGens who don't want to give up the high levels of output along with efficient driving offered by the NexGen but do find the low level unacceptable, you can re configure your switches accordingly.

From a builder's position, I am currently at a loss as to how to proceed in any offering of the NexGen. Do I only offer it and configure it in single, high mode? Do I offer it in two stage but with some caveat that low level may be unstable at some or all times and your mileage may vary???

As a user, I would opt for the two stage option and see if the particular LE I had was viable or not in two stage function and then make the call personally.

As a builder of custom configurations with already too many options to discuss on a case by case level, adding the uncertainty of the 2 stage function of the NexGen is not welcome, to say the least. I refuse to try to navigate a

" Well build me a NG750 but if it doesn't work right in low after *you* have tested it exaustively in all conditions, I don't want it and then let me know what my options are" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif

My inclination at the moment is to offer and sell the NexGen in the single stage configuration with the information here on the forum somewhere that the user *can* reconfigure the build for two stage operation with possibly a reasonable degree of success and acceptance. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

In the meantime, have I mentioned how well the Down Boy shifts effortlessly and elegantly from high to low without any disagreement? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

And now finally, part that really makes me cringe, some of you have NexGen LE's that presumably were fine and acceptable as I have not had any feedback to the contrary. Now this may have changed. Do you now want to return these for a refund? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/aaa.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif
 
No refund, I can live with it. This driver is too good to give it for a little flicker.
bernhard
 
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