OMG love this stuff!!

[bigchelis]

The Solarforce L2 and Surefire 6P, C2, G2 ect... are all P60 Hosts.

read this thread. There are emitter lumens (you will never see) and OTF aka out the front lumens which is what you will actually see come out the front.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=260659


An SST-50 or SST-90 in a P60 hosts is a flood light and will have little throw. Additionally; you will not come close to 1000 OTF lumens with eighter one in such a small hosts. You need a bigger hosts to help with the heat. Currently; the record holder for the most real OTF lumens is a Moddoo Tripple XG-G R5 direct drive that did 1260 OTF (but you cant buy anymore).

If you want some throw in a P60 format you will be limited to a XP-G R5 which currently make about 400 OTF lumens at best, but the lux is 7k~8K at 1m. That means it has some throw.

If you PM Nailbender he makes a XR-E R2 P60 drop-in that when fitted with his 1.3A driver will deliver 290 real OTF lumens and well over 12k lux. Notice the lux went up, but the lumens went down. This is because the size of the LED has to be small and the reflector is bigger. AS the LED gets bigger it gives more lumens and less throw. Here is how some popular LED's are in terms of size.

In a P60 drop-in/ inside a Solarforce L2 or Surefire 6P

• SST-90 is huge, but can deliver as much as 800 OTF and will be all flood
• SST-50 is big, but can deliver as much as 600 OTF, but will be floody with a tiny bit of thow at 5~6K lux
• XG-G R5 is still big, but will deliver as much as 400 OTF, and will have throw and flood mix and 7K lux can be expected.
• XR-E R2 = is still the KING OF THROW in a P60 drop-in. The most lumens I have seen from these is just 290 OTF by Nailbender, but the lux are 12K lux if not more.
• XP-E R3 = low lumens, low throw, ignore this one, but it does have a nice tight hotspot.

PS. An SST-90 at 5A in a P60 hosts will give you 800 OTF, but stick that in a 2D Mag and the lumens will double instantly = more massive heatsink. Heat will kill your lumen output within a fraction of 1sec. I know this cause I have tested and seen it.

bigC

 

[odd]

I am leaning towards the solarforce l2 host from lighthound...

The "Solar Force L2 Flashlight Host for 18650 - L2 Host HA III Black Finish" is actually a L2P.
If you consider buying from another shop make sure you get the L2P because the L2 is the "non-Professional" version of the L2P.
Some improvments are:
-Harder anodization (less scratches)
-low Crenelated Bezel
-tailstand

I have both of them and they´re great hosts, but since i got my L2p I barely use my L2 :thinking:

 

[Jash]

You need to do some more looking, at this.

 

[caall99]

Wow guys, you are definitely putting me into turmoil here. I now have more to consider than i thought i would. lets take a look at my revised criteria.

Throw is cool, it's awesome and it's fun. If something is going to attract me to this hobby more than anything else it would have to be an EDC light that has great throw. I would love to show off an EDC that lights up a house a quarter mile down the street.

Granted, throw doesn't seem to be the most useful for 90% of a flashlights situational use. Flood is great for walking around and illuminating a large area. More useful 90% of the time in my opinion.

Is there a focusable head (can be larger than standard) that i could equip a p60 (SOLARFORCE) host with, run 600-800 OTF and have the ability to throw and flood (to some extent?)

There is a lot of information here, and i am starting to believe that i want 1 of every LED/HID flashlight that exists, but i need to settle on my FIRST light! I am currently sitting at my desk at work with my MagLite solitaire. It's output is very weak to say the least, i need more :)

I do not have much experience with new generation flashlights what so ever. I have no idea if 200 lumens OTF is actually bright, nor do i know how brutal 1000 lumens OTF could be. I guess i just want to be happy with my first purchase, but most importantly, super impressed by the performance (I LOVE tech and DIY!)

 

[coolperl]

You should decide between raw OTF power and throw. With your budget, you won't get both.
If you're that much after throw, the best option under 100$ will be Solarforce L2P host + Solarforce Masterpiece Pro-1 (this is dedicated head for extreme throw). This setup will do over 50K lux/1m, which outperforms most production lights under 200$ (excluding aspherics). Or just buy a Tiablo A9 flashlight with additional aspheric head. This setup is a lot of fun :).
When you feel, you want more power and more flood you can always put in your L2P host some of Nailbender products.

 

[CarpentryHero]

The masterpeace pro head, I still need to pick up one sone day soon.
InternationalTradingCompany has them, good price but it'll take longer to get to you than our local peeps. I'm not patient when it comes to new toys :whistle:

 

[CarpentryHero]

On a different note, you should get the single cell cr123 ITP light from batteryjunction. It's 24 dollars and compact. Mine arrived Friday and it's wicked for it's size.

 

[KevinL]

Wow guys, you are definitely putting me into turmoil here. I now have more to consider than i thought i would. lets take a look at my revised criteria.

Throw is cool, it's awesome and it's fun. If something is going to attract me to this hobby more than anything else it would have to be an EDC light that has great throw. I would love to show off an EDC that lights up a house a quarter mile down the street.

Granted, throw doesn't seem to be the most useful for 90% of a flashlights situational use. Flood is great for walking around and illuminating a large area. More useful 90% of the time in my opinion.

Is there a focusable head (can be larger than standard) that i could equip a p60 (SOLARFORCE) host with, run 600-800 OTF and have the ability to throw and flood (to some extent?)

There is a lot of information here, and i am starting to believe that i want 1 of every LED/HID flashlight that exists, but i need to settle on my FIRST light! I am currently sitting at my desk at work with my MagLite solitaire. It's output is very weak to say the least, i need more :)

I do not have much experience with new generation flashlights what so ever. I have no idea if 200 lumens OTF is actually bright, nor do i know how brutal 1000 lumens OTF could be. I guess i just want to be happy with my first purchase, but most importantly, super impressed by the performance (I LOVE tech and DIY!)

Your Solitaire is in the single-digit lumen range. Trust me, you WILL be impressed.

Then a few days later, it will never be enough. You will find yourself upgrading incessantly. Forget your first light. You'll be thinking about your first dozen. Don't worry too much about your first purchase. Worry about all those coming down the pipeline.

In the good ole days, us Solitaire users were impressed by just 60 lumens. If you are starting fresh just like we were, you will definitely like 100-200.

Your observation is correct about floods vs throw. Throw lights are generally better off in a class of their own. Get a moderate flood for your EDC.

Forget about focusing. Good lights are fixed-focus nowadays and nobody misses the 'focusing' mechanism.

Forget about the cheap Ebay HIDs, chances are you will be disappointed. Actually, forget HID until you have at least $1K to play with. There are the cheap HIDs and the good ones and the good ones start from $1K up.

 

[tandem]

I have no idea if 200 lumens OTF is actually bright, nor do i know how brutal 1000 lumens OTF could be.

That was my sense of the situation. You mentioned seeing an uber-bright light in Target and chances are that any 140 - 200 lumen single AA general purpose more floody light with a little throw that gets talked around here will blow that light away, for about 50-60$ in a simple integrated non-modifiable package that easily fits in your pocket.

A non modifiable light obviously won't appeal to your DIY craving, but if chosen well you'll get a really solid package that will "just work" and offer a lot of light for the size and other features too like a decent spread of output levels (max isn't useful all the time!) and probably really, really, good runtimes. Believe me people will be impressed when you pull out a blinding, but useful, light the size of your index finger.

I guess i just want to be happy with my first purchase, but most importantly, super impressed by the performance (I LOVE tech and DIY!)

Your DIY craving makes you a prime candidate for the lego-ability of P60 lights. This often ends up being more SIY (Screw It Yourself -- simple assembly) but is still fun, still allows for great opportunities to tailor a light(s) to your specific likes. If you are electronically inclined and have some tools, modding a P60 lamp assembly might be fun for you down the road.

If you start to price out stuff you'll find a number of the P60 lego bits and pieces talked about in this thread are not accessible for < $100 all rolled in. You could investigate the budget P60 host and drop-in offerings and be prepared to have some successes and failures. Or take a little more time acquiring parts slowly and pick up some quality pieces new or more affordably over at CPF Marketplace where a vibrant world wide trading system in lights goes on 24-7.

If budget is tight you should remember power in your calculations too. Most, but not all, of these combos tend to want to run on lithium primaries (expensive disposables if you use the light a lot) or li-ion rechargeables (be sure to read about safety first; if you have kids doubly so). P60 lego opportunities for double or triple AA configurations are also available but not quite as common. Cost might be a bit of a wash for power - 2 good LiNiCo li-ion rechargeable cells can cost > $30 plus charger; getting setup with some Sanyo Eneloop AAs and a charger might be around the same but perhaps you have other uses for such cells around the house and can spread that cost mentally at least to other purposes, hobbies and distractions.

Ultimately I think you are going to go around in circles until you settle on what type of beam you want (forget power for a moment). Maybe it will help you to check out more examples of throwy lights vs bright good general purpose lights. Lots of beamshot threads here on CPF to help you decide for yourself. You may decide otherwise but for a first good light, it makes sense in my opinion to lean to general purpose which means you aren't looking for all throw no spill. Get something smaller and floodier and use it for a while and then and only then consider what you've learned from that light and start hunting light #2.

Just remember that almost anything talked about here, from a single AAA keychain 4Sevens ReVo on up, is probably going to outperform -- in multiple dimensions -- the Target light you saw. Given most people haven't even looked at the Target light you've seen, anything you acquire is going to impress. Count on it.

+1 on Kevin's comment: You won't be stopping at just one light, just accept that.

 

[entoptics]

An important point you may be missing (most of us newbs miss it while frantically chasing lumens in our first light or two).

Light brightness is perceived in "exponential" steps by the human eye. I don't know the actual equation, but a good "example guestimate" of how you will perceive brightness is below.

Consider 5 identical lights with identical beam profiles (flood, throw, diameter, etc).

50 lumens = perceived brightness of 1
200 lumens = perceived brightness of 2
400 lumens = perceived brightness of 3
800 lumens = perceived brightness of 4
1600 lumens = perceived brightness of 5

In terms of practical usage, a 150-300 lumen light is FRIGGIN BRIGHT, and right at the performance sweet spot for todays "pocketable" technology. Brighter than a standard 4D Maglite with fresh cells, and readily available in a variety of high quality options the size of a lipstick tube for ~$50-$75.

Attempting to go for much more than about 350 OTF lm in an obese MiniMag sized light (L2, 6P, G2, etc) is probably not gonna work well for practical use. As mentioned, heat will kill the performance within seconds to minutes of turning it on.

Good luck with your search. Don't get carried away though. You've got time, and the technology improves at a rapid pace, so don't spend all your money at once.

Have a look at my "Flashlight beam shot time lapse videos" linked in my signature and you'll maybe get an idea of what I mean about perceived brightness. Particularly, check out the iTP EOS A3 (~60 OTF lm) vs the NiteCore D10 (~140 OTF lm) vs EagleTac P20A2 (230 OTF lm) vs the iTP Polestar (~600 OTF lm). Not all in one video, but if you watch a few vids, you'll be able to compare them all mentally.

 

[caall99]

i am starting to gain a better understanding and am willing to throttle my excitement for the biggest BADDEST LED pocket light! I am pretty set on going the Solarforce L2(P) route, and am willing to skip an sst-50/90 for now for a higher efficiency emitter/reflector combo providing decent throw and flood (still some emphasis on throw). 400+ OTF is the new benchmark. I would like a forward clicky power button with 3 brightness settings, regulated power (higher than average amperage preferred, as this light won't be on for more than 5 mins at a time) OP reflector, with rechargeable (highest energy density) batteries. I have played with LiPos in the RC helicopter hobby and am well informed of the dangers and precautions.

You guys think i found my light? Now... question is where to get it?

 

[tandem]

Have a look at my "Flashlight beam shot time lapse videos" linked in my signature

I've seen your time lapse videos - excellent! I've been meaning to mention this to you but the link in your sig is broken - it'll work for you because it points to the "my" videos page, but not for anyone else.

http://www.youtube.com/user/entoptics will work.

 

[CarpentryHero]

A P7 dropin has a little tighter beam than an sst-50.
Nailbender made mine and I love it. Still not much of a thrower. Thrunite and Dereelight dropins are another place to look.
Thrunite is in the CPF marketplace.
Dereelight is a manufacturer
I have no experience with them but I've read good things about both

 

[Trancersteve]

Hi caall99, like you I have recently properly got into this hobby and have read so much that sometimes it feels like my head is about to explode :huh:.

If you are looking for a thrower you will be needing a large reflector. The standard reflector of the P60 dropins do offer some limited throw but aren't throwers due to their small reflector size. But this also goes against that you want a pocketable light, a light with a large reflector will be difficult to squeeze in your pocket. It is all about compromise :)

One thing I have learnt for certain is that it is impossible to find an all in one light, you will be purchasing quite a few. Down the line you may find yourself buying a huge dedicated thrower, a high OTF lumen pocket, flood light etc...

I think you are on the right path with the Solarforce L2P, this body has quite a large following. I can see myself buying the L2P as my 4th light.

I will be interested to see the suggested dropins for the L2P and your final decision on what you purchase. :popcorn:

 

[caall99]

Thanks for the positive motivation you guys are providing. Let me just state, the responsiveness at CPF is bar-none, the BEST i have seen in any forum, and i have been on 30+. Thank you for that CPF! I am starting to further dial down my needs/interests. I have read a lot about the CREE XPG R5 emitter and it truly does look like an efficient beautiful little thing. Manufacture claims 320 lumens at 1A? This about where i want to be with 18650 batteries. I was hoping for a little more output though. Is there a way to run the XPG at 1.5 amps? or even just 1.1 to get a little closer to 400 or more lumens OTF. Throw should exist, but i will appreciate good flood. I hear the XPG has better throw than the sst-50 or 90 options i was considering for a p60 host build, is that right?

What dropins for the solarforce l2 can i buy that will let me slightly overdrive the XPG R5? who makes the best dropins? 3 modes would be a great with the highest being brutally bright, and can only be used for short periods of time.

I also browsed deal extreme today and found several p60 sized lights that run the xpg r5 for only 20 bucks shipped!! these are not regulated unfortunately. Are they still worth it? will i be able to tell the difference between a dealextreme "deal" and a DIY solarforce l2 host?

getting closer and closer to my first purchase! super excited to finally be able to see in the dark.

 

[caall99]

oooo... i think i laid my eyes on something good here! This looks like the drop in that fits the bill if i go the solarforce l2 route:

http://www.sbflashlights.com/Thrunite-Dropins/Thrunite-XPG-3-Mode-3-7-4-2V-Dropin-p65.html

or this

http://www.sbflashlights.com/Thrunite-Dropins/Thrunite-XPG-3-Mode-4-0-13V-Dropin-p66.html

what do the voltage range differences actually mean? its not battery selection is it?

Is there another dropin that is cheaper or you would recommend instead of the above linked.

(i am definitely not trying to advertise here, let me know if i should not be posting links to vendors)

 

[bigchelis]

oooo... i think i laid my eyes on something good here! This looks like the drop in that fits the bill if i go the solarforce l2 route:

http://www.sbflashlights.com/Thrunite-Dropins/Thrunite-XPG-3-Mode-3-7-4-2V-Dropin-p65.html

or this

http://www.sbflashlights.com/Thrunite-Dropins/Thrunite-XPG-3-Mode-4-0-13V-Dropin-p66.html

what do the voltage range differences actually mean? its not battery selection is it?

Is there another dropin that is cheaper or you would recommend instead of the above linked.

(i am definitely not trying to advertise here, let me know if i should not be posting links to vendors)

I tested that same one in both single and 3 modes. Here is what they make OTF.
Surefire 6P UCL_____Thrunite XP-G R5_________ 2 AW 2600mAh_________ 396.2 ______ 1 sec________________________
__________________________________________________ _____________ 349.2_______30 sec_______________________
_______________________1.5A Single Mode______________822mA at the tail___________340.8_______1 min______________________
__________________________________________________ _____________________________331.5_______2 min________________________
______________________________________________________________________________326.5_______3 min________________________
Surefire 6P UCL_____Thrunite XP-G R5_________ 1 AW 2600mAh_________ 332.3 ______ 1 sec________________________
__________________________________________________ _____________ 314.6_______30 sec_______________________
_______________________1.5A Single Mode______________1.35A at the tail____________312.3_______1 min______________________
__________________________________________________ _____________________________306.9_______2 min________________________
______________________________________________________________________________302.3_______3 min________________________
Surefire 6P UCL_____Thrunite XP-G R5________2 RCR123 Primaries_______ 363.8 ______ 1 sec________________________
__________________________________________________ _____________ 306.9_______30 sec_______________________
_______________________1.5A Single Mode________________________________________ 293.8_______1 min______________________
__________________________________________________ _____________________________282.3_______2 min________________________
______________________________________________________________________________262.3_______3 min________________________
Surefire 6P UCL_____Thrunite XP-G R5_________ 2 AW 2600mAh_________ 403.1 ______ 1 sec________________________
__________________________________________________ _____________ 350.8_______30 sec_______________________
_______________________1.5A Single Mode______________822mA at the tail___________343.8_______1 min______________________
________________________Arctic Silver 5__________________________________________335.5_______2 min________________________
______________________________________________________________________________331.5_______3 min________________________
Surefire 6P UCL_____Thrunite XP-G R5_________ 2 AW 2600mAh_________ 371.5 ______ 1 sec________________________
__________________________________________________ _____________ 331.5_______30 sec_______________________
_________________________1.5A 3 MODE___________________3 MODE_________________327.7_______1 min______________________
__________________________________________________ _____________________________321.5_______2 min________________________
______________________________________________________________________________320.8_______3 min________________________
Surefire 6P UCL_____Thrunite XP-G R5_________ 1 AW 2600mAh_________ 238.5 ______ 1 sec________________________
__________________________________________________ _____________ 237.7_______30 sec_______________________
_________________________1.5A 3 MODE___________________3 MODE_________________221.5_______1 min______________________
__________________________________________________ _____________________________221.5_______2 min________________________
______________________________________________________________________________221.5_______3 min________________________
Surefire 6P UCL_____Thrunite XP-G R5_________2 RCR123 Primaries______ 313.1 ______ 1 sec________________________
__________________________________________________ _____________ 262.3_______30 sec_______________________
_________________________1.5A 3 MODE___________________3 MODE_________________251.5_______1 min______________________
_______________________________________Humm Noise_____________________________ 211.5_______2 min________________________
______________________________________________________________________________ 185.4_______3 min________________________

 

[RedForest UK]

Yeah, I was about to recommend you a Thrunite 1.5A XP-G, you might want to check out Nailbenders work too.

Just one thing, in P60 hosts it's important to establish a good heatsinking connection between the drop-in and the host, it's dead simple though, just remove any label from the drop-in itself and wrap the bottom half in a bit of tinfoil, make sure it wedges in nicely making as much direct contact as possible, then you should be good to go. :thumbsup:

 

[caall99]

thanks for the graph. Is just shy of 400 lumens the limit on XPG R5? 1.5 amps the limit before you jump into something like sst-50?

I still don't understand the voltage range differences... i'll check out nailbenders work. Is there a way to get a copper heatsink portion for these drop ins?

 

[notsofast]

Love your enthusiasm and diligent behavior. Most of us went through the "lust for lumens" phase.

In the end you will find for every day use, 200 lumens is plenty and seldom used, especially in dark situations. Too much light is blinding to the user. (not in all situations of course)

You will go through different size lights with different battery configurations before you settle on your every day use light. However like many of us you will end up with several lights, most of which you don't "need" or use that much. But can't give up because modern flashlight are so darn cool!

Welcome to CPF and enjoy the ride. You have along road ahead of you.