On being a night owl

[Fallingwater]

I really hate mornings. Whenever I have to wake up before noon I'm always groggy and never manage to get anything done.
Conversely, I love the night. I'm usually half-active in the afternoon and only start going on full power at sunset (maybe a bit before that in summer).

Since I'm not currently under obligation of activity (read: I'm unemployed, although trying to find a work-from-home job), I obviously go to bed at times that are unthinkable for most "normal" people. Bedtime usually comes at 5 am, and I've been known to stay up until sunrise reminds me the time for dreamin' has come (about 7.15/7.30). I usually try to sleep eight hours, so I wake up at one to three in the afternoon.

I may or may not suffer from DSPS. I'm not really sure, as personal choice has at least a part in my delayed sleeping schedule. I can't say whether I am capable of reverting my rhythms back to normal or not, as I've never actively tried to do so since finding out I feel better at night; however, even if I could I really have no desire to do so.

And when for some reason I should, I always find interesting stuff to do or read that tends to keep me awake ("It's one am, I really should go to bed... ooh look at this Wikipedia article... <time passes> whoops, now it's five am...")

Whatever the reason, this isn't usually a problem, as I live alone and bother no one with my admittedly unusual sleep rhythms. However, my mom seems to be utterly unable to accept that this lifestyle is not actually negative in any way.
When I'm staying at my place she can't do much of anything about it, save pestering me on the phone every chance she has. When I'm staying at her place, however, not a day goes by without us fighting about it.

This has been going on for a while and, to put it bluntly, I'm bloody tired of it, especially after today's fight which is threatening to turn christmas day sour (christmas doesn't matter much to be, being completely atheist and all, but I'd still like it if I could avoid fights during it).
She's usually a pretty nice person and I love her dearly, but this is driving me insane.

If I was doing her, or myself, some wrong, then I would understand her worries and try to normalize my sleeping schedule. But since I'm not harming anyone, and I actually feel better and am happier when I sleep in the morning and stay awake at night, I don't see why she should make all this fuss about it.

Her main argument seems to be that since the rest of the world does it so should I, but I really don't give a flying fart in a rolling donut what the rest of the world does.

I tried talking to her about it, but it only serves to quieten things for a day or three, after which she resumes her ranting.

I don't want to come to the point where I actively try to stay away from her home to avoid fighting. I'm not about to change my sleeping schedule just to appease her, and modifying my habits only during the time I spend at her home is not feasible on account of such changes taking at least several days to set in, which is usually more time than I spend there.

Can you give me any advice on how to deal with this situation? I figure in an artificial illumination forum I have a better chance of finding night owls like me who have had to deal with the same problem.

 

[Sigman]

It seems I've always been a "night person". Oh sure, forced myself to get up to go to school, work, etc when required...but ALWAYS have enjoyed/appreciated/functioned better at night! I worked nights for a looooooong time by choice!

Yes I'm sure there are more of us, but it seems the majority of the world functions during the daylight hours. Indeed it's a pain when "they" ("the light dwellers") try to tell you we "need to get on a normal schedule". Well normal to them isn't normal to us! Some people like red, some people like blue, some people like sweet, some people like sour....know what I'm saying?!

I don't know how I ever got to be this way, don't know if it's a "natural" thing, induced, or a little or both? I sleep the same number of hours as most other people - just shifted. When I explain that to them, they back off (as you say, for a few days) and then it seems "they" forget and are back to that, "should get on a normal schedule" rant! :hairpull: :thinking: :shrug:

BTW, living in Anchorage where we have around 20 hours of daylight with a few hours of "dusk" in the summer or 20 hours of darkness with a few hours of "dusk" in the winter doesn't seem to make a difference to my body clock.

 

[Fallingwater]

Yes I'm sure there are more of us, but it seems the majority of the world functions during the daylight hours

Yep. I especially hate the postal service, who only deliver mail in the morning.
I sleep with earplugs (noisy neighbours and noisy home), so I never hear the doorbell. As a result, I always have to go to the post office to get my packages myself.
You'd think they could deliver mail in the afternoon as well, but noooo...

 

[WNG]

I am always leery of newly discovered syndromes and new illnesses. The Shaking Leg Disorder example now seen on TV commercials here in the USA had me laughing on the floor.
If this is what they call this somewhat undesirable trait, then I have it too.

I'm a night owl too. But I believe the onset of CRT and LCD panel usage has been a catalyst to springing this problem to 'light'. pun bad, I know.
The brightness of backgrounds on screens may have an impact in disrupting our body clocks. And speaking of which, our bodies have been proven to be on a 25 hour clock if sunlight isn't induced.

Currently, I've shifted back to waking up at dawn. Now it's 7-8:30am this week.
I still prefer the late night...and do sleep late, but pop up awake at a specific time. It is also proven your body can get accustomed to broken sleep sessions and adapt to several hours of sleep through a day than a session of 8-10 hours continuous.
I personally believe my body has entered this pattern, no thanks to my overly bright 3 LCD panels on my desk.


Aside:
While working at IBM in the 80s, a statistic was released pertaining to findings of working the 3rd/graveyard shift your whole career. It shortens your lifespan by 5 years. The IBM site I had worked at was operating 24/7.

 

[PhantomPhoton]

I am right there with you.
It has been noticed about my posting habits on CPF I'm up all night usually.
As a child I never had too much of a problem getting up for school and going to bed on time. I never found it particularly difficult to stay up late during those years either, but I had a normal rhythm. As I got older I discovered the snooze button on the alarm clock though.
Then around 16 years old, I started having trouble going to bed at a normal hour. Likewise I slept as late as I possibly could in the morning. I'd always have to run to the bus stop and often skipped out on a good breakfast because I just couldn't get up.
Then came College. I started out being able to make it to 9am classes. But by the end I was having trouble getting to 11am classes. It bothered me for awhile. I tried forcing myself to bed at an early hour.
I found that most of the time I simply couldn't get to sleep. I'm a person who rarely uses any sort of pharmaceuticals so taking a downer was out of the question. I would lie there for hours in bed and my mind would just go. I took to reading at night and eventually surfing the internet.
Now sometimes I find that I'm tired and I fall asleep at a normal 10:00pm. But I always wake up by around 2am and sit awake for a few hours before finally being able to go back to sleep.
Luckily I have a job that doesn't require me to be up until around noon. So my lifestyle hasn't been too adversely affected. Sometimes though I have to be up early for work, usually on weekends. I have been able to exert some self control and I can now make myself fall asleep "early", say around midnight when I know I'm going to need sleep. I can maintain a standard noon to 8 sleep schedule for a few days before crashing.
The thing is when I try and go to be early because I now I have a 7am wake up the next morning I have a hell of a time getting up, and I'm dead tired all day if I'm not physically active. I've found that I'm fine if I go to bed at around 2 or 3 am and get up at 7am. 3 to 4 hours works for me for a couple of days on the weekend. I'm much more alive and alert on 3 to 4 hours sleep than on the old wives' tale of 8. I also find that if I go 10 or so hours of sleep I'm fine. 8 hours just seems to drain my life away. :thinking:

I as I said earlier have a job that allows me to follow my preferred sleep rhythm. My mother has come to terms with this. I have a job, I get done what needs to get done (usually) so she hasn't ever made much of an issue out of it for the past few years. My advice to get the Mom off of your back is to get a job.
I think, and this is only my hunch, is that your mother may be frustrated with you not apparently "doing" anything. The sleep hours issue may not be so much about the sleep hours. It could just be what she blames for you not having a life, having a job, etc...
My mother was a nag as well for awhile. She, in the end, didn't want me to sit around and waste away my life doing "nothing." Jobs can be hard to find, but even a simple part time job for several hours a week which require you to go into work at late hours could be a start in getting her to accept your sleep patterns.

If I had the money at the time, I would have gotten a custom CPF label during the Titan Giveaway reading "Nocturnal Nature Nut." :nana: But alas I was too broke to buy several subscriptions that would last me any decent amount of time. 1 month wasn't worth it when it couldn't be renewed.

 

[jugg2]

I do better at night too. I have to get up at 7-8 for school and stuff, but I never go to bed before 2 AM. I sleep less than most people, but it doesn't really bother me. If I could, I would sleep in the day, and work at night, but right now I don't have that option.

 

[iced_theater]

I'm a night owl as well. I usually go to bed between midnight and 5-6 am. Just depends on if I'm working a double shift in the morning.

Which is also why I chose to have straight swings. I could of been on dayshift at my job quite awhile ago but really dislike waking up at 5:30-6am.

 

[Robocop]

For over ten years now I have worked nights on patrol (3-11pm) and never go to bed before 5am....often it is 6am. I have really tried to change a little as I never wake before 11am and usually closer to noon.

I found I am simply spoiled.....think about it this is the schedule we all dreamed of when we were kids. Sleep all day and stay up all night works for me very well. I have found when I do try and function during daytime hours I get very frustrated. I am used to the light traffic both to and from work on my hours and hate the "day walkers" as I like to call them.

I often have to qualify at our range or maybe go to an early court session and these sessions are always early morning usually at 8 or 9am. I know better than to try and wake up early and my problem is so bad I will always simply stay awake the following night in order to ensure I am awake on time.

The morning traffic really sucks and I have no idea how day walkers cope with it. What usually takes me 24 minutes to reach work in the evening takes me over an hour during normal morning traffic. On my job day shift is a highly prized position as it is from 7am to 3pm. It takes some seniority to get it with the lowest man having 10 years on the street before advancing. I have long said even when I do have the seniority to go I will pass it up.....I simply hate day time hours.

I have also found by working nights it is much easier to find places to eat on duty. The very few times I have been forced to be out during day time I tried to eat lunch at about 12 noon and found every place filled with day walkers also eating lunch. Once again what would have taken me 5 minutes to get a dinner during night found me taking way over my 30 minutes allowed for lunch during the day time.

It should be noted that I get about the same amount of sleep as day time workers however the sleep is simply at a different time. If a "normal" day time worker gets off at 5pm they are usually in bed say by 11pm and that is 6 hours after they get off work. I get off at 11pm and am usually in bed at 5 or 6am and that is also 6 hours after I get off work.

I would suggest that if you enjoy night hours try to find a job that allows you to work when you feel the best and that is at night. ...good luck.

 

[Mash]

HEHEHEHE!
+1 Robocop!
On occasions when Im going home at about 6 or 7am, I would be on my natural down cycle, and the daywalkers have just woken up and running around to work etc, so sometimes you feel like shouting to them: "CALLLLLMMMMM DOWWWWNN!!!!"
As a night owl, I find if I need to be up in mornings, the only way I can do it, is to miss one days sleep, ie pull an "all dayer", so Im exhausted by about 7-8pm, and HAVE to sleep. But after a few days, I just stay up later and later until its back to 6am sleep time again.
I have noticed something strange though. When I do this kind of sleep, sometimes I wake up only after a two or three hours, feeling like I have had 8 hours, AND I always have the strangest dreams to go with it. There is a real repeatable difference in this "kind" of sleep for me.

 

[Oddjob]

My job has in the past required me to works day shifts and night shifts and I always preferred night shifts. Overall I tend to get more done and I like the peace and quiet of nights. I agree with Robocop in that you should try to find work that requires you to do night shifts. At least if you are working people will have less to bother you about when it come to sleeping all day.

 

[Lightraven]

I've worked a similar afternoon shift for about 8 years, 1 year of graveyard, and 3 years of day shift. Obviously, I prefer the afternoon for all the reasons given.

My job changes at night. There is significantly more criminal activity, less 'citizen' activity to deal with, and the nature of the tactics change. You can use darkness and light, sound and silence to your advantage. It's harder, because darkness conceals a lot, but you bring tools like lights and night vision to help. It's just a more interesting job at night. We also get paid a little more for working at night.

 

[jtr1962]

I tend to relate to everything said in this thread. For example:

The morning traffic really sucks and I have no idea how day walkers cope with it. What usually takes me 24 minutes to reach work in the evening takes me over an hour during normal morning traffic. On my job day shift is a highly prized position as it is from 7am to 3pm. It takes some seniority to get it with the lowest man having 10 years on the street before advancing. I have long said even when I do have the seniority to go I will pass it up.....I simply hate day time hours.

Yep, I never understood why on jobs with round the clock shifts that "day" hours are so highly coveted. It takes forever to get to work, when you're off from work everything is crowded, etc. My mom worked as a Bridge and Tunnel Officer for a while. She was always on midnight shifts by choice. Even if she had the chance to pick day hours she preferred nights. She flew to work in a few minutes instead of sitting in traffic. The pace at work was much more relaxed. She got night differential (talk about having your cake and eating it, too). When she got off work she could hit the grocery stores right after they opened and were still empty. There was really no downside.

As a night owl, I find if I need to be up in mornings, the only way I can do it, is to miss one days sleep, ie pull an "all dayer", so Im exhausted by about 7-8pm, and HAVE to sleep. But after a few days, I just stay up later and later until its back to 6am sleep time again.
I have noticed something strange though. When I do this kind of sleep, sometimes I wake up only after a two or three hours, feeling like I have had 8 hours, AND I always have the strangest dreams to go with it. There is a real repeatable difference in this "kind" of sleep for me.

I do the exact same thing. I call it "going around the clock". It's really your body's natural 25 hour cycle setting things so that you get up an hour or so later each day. I can live like this since I rarely do anything which requires me to be a certain place at a certain time. When I couldn't, I felt tired all the time.

Yes I'm sure there are more of us, but it seems the majority of the world functions during the daylight hours. Indeed it's a pain when "they" ("the light dwellers") try to tell you we "need to get on a normal schedule". Well normal to them isn't normal to us! Some people like red, some people like blue, some people like sweet, some people like sour....know what I'm saying?!

I don't know how I ever got to be this way, don't know if it's a "natural" thing, induced, or a little or both? I sleep the same number of hours as most other people - just shifted. When I explain that to them, they back off (as you say, for a few days) and then it seems "they" forget and are back to that, "should get on a normal schedule" rant!

I'm definitely tired of people telling me to "be more productive" when I sleep the same number of hours as anyone else. It's just that it's more visible if you happen to be sleeping at times when people want to bother you. I particularly hate early morning phone calls to renew free trade journal subscriptions. Why do they assume everyone operating a business is up at 9AM?

I also definitely feel being a night person is both natural, and a survival mechanism for the human race. The "light dwellers" always performed the chores related to agriculture or gathering or whatever else required daylight. The hunters needed to live at night to better hunt their prey who was also usually active at night. They may have been a minority (still are) but since they were essential to the survival of the group, these traits stayed. Thankfully, there is enough need for "night work" in modern society so that not all night dwellers have no place. I just wish we were better understood.

So is there really any good reason why someone who doesn't need to be up mornings for school or work should try and change their schedule to suit the rest of the world? I certainly don't think so. If someone calls me at 11 in the morning and I'm still in bed let them call me back. Chances are I wouldn't be very coherent anyway. I'm easily four times as productive at nights as in the mornings. As I said in another thread, let the "day dwellers" try waking at 1 AM for a couple of weeks. Let them tell us how they feel after that. My guess would be not so good. Well, that's exactly the kind of feeling every night person has to endure whenever they try to live in sync with the rest of the world. I did it for 17 years of school and a number of years of work. I refuse to do it any more. It saps my energy to the point that once I fulfill my work responsibilities there's just nothing left.

 

[Sigman]

BTW...it's 4:30am here in Alaska & here I am on CPF (again!!!). :thumbsup:

 

[djblank87]

I'm not a day walker by any means and enjoy working nights. I have been working graveyards since my Military days and I really enjoy the night.

I mean how can a person be a flashaholic and a day walker at the same time. :candle:

Anyhow back on topic I do not know how to solve the OP's problem but with a parent figure upset by this schedule the first thing that comes to my mind is the fact the your sleeping during normal business hours.

And if your currently un-employed it is hard to get a job during what society considers normal hours. Maybe your mother is upset that your un-employed and sleeping durning the day?

Just a guess and not meant to tick you off FW but that is my first thought.

 

[da.gee]

Always been a night dude. 1am is an early night. More likely 2, 3 or 4. Don't now why but think it stems from those days being a kid when staying up late was special. Guess I'm still a kid and finally found a night friendly hobby. Been lucky enough to have compatible jobs and the right constitution to make it work. I like the solitude of the wee hours.

 

[EV_007]

I used to get some of my best work done in the wee hours of the morning... wait, I think I still do. :devil:

 

[woodrow]

I am the same way. It always drove my parents/girlfriends/roommates nuts that I would sleep so late (noon) on my days off. I also love 1-3am. My thoughts are so clear then. I would love to work a 4-midnight shift, except you would never see anyone. (of course working 11-8pm) with mon-tue off is not great for my social life either.

I am not married, but having dated more than a few women (being that I am over 30 and the ex-girlfirend list just starts to add up after a while) I have realized that it would not be a good thing for me to mary a morning person. Someone who gets up at 6am at the latest and goes to bed by 9pm. We would both just drive each other nuts. Oh well.

 

[binky]

2 quick drive-by thoughts...

- Mountain biking and having children taught me something attractive about mornings. I was a night person until I discovered how incredibly cool it is super, super early in the morning. At latest 5am - 6:30am, before the world is really out of their houses. It's foggy, quiet, and there's something really interesting about that time when the sun is just coming up. I think there are many things that attracted me to being a night person that incline me to sometimes being a morning person, but only ONLY if I can get up & out before everyone else. If it's sorta 7am and the 9-5 rat race has begun then I am in no way interested. No way. I'll sleep through that world mess thank you.

- Take up tech support, but not "My computer's being slow -- Do I have a virus?" after-the-fact stuff. Do the kind where you set up & maintain small businesses or such. Most of your onsite work must be done after business hours so you don't disturb the daily operations, and you can set up VPN's to all your clients so you can maintain things & bill hours while you're up late at the computer anyway. It's meticulous work, done peacefully at night, and often requires intense undisturbed concentration so you don't make a stupid mistake that requires your going out on a non-billable 1.5 hr emergency drive to a client's site just to go press a reset button.

 

[Lightmeup]

Your Mother has the problem, not you. Why she cares when you sleep is something I don't understand. I would just tell her you're tired of the hassle and if she doesn't chill out, you won't be visiting her. It's her choice then.

 

[dudemar]

I think Fallingwater suffers from Nagging Mom Disorder (NMD), where she's worried sick about her son's health so she bugs him to no end.

My mom does the same exact thing all the time. It goes absolutely nowhere, yet she still does it. I have found out the reason why she does it- she cares about me. She shows it to me in a very strange way, but nonetheless she cares so much that she is willing to go beyond her reach to do it.

However when it gets to the point where it's overbearing and smothering, she's crossed the line. I let her know how I feel about it. If she still bugs me, it's the quickest trip in North America- in one of my ears and out the other.

Dudemar