OSRAM Parathom 8W LED Lamp

tino_ale

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
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Hi all,

Just found this little sucker in a hardware store, it is advertised to replace 40W incandescent bulbs.

The tint is "warm white", quite pleasant to the eye IMO. No ugly tint at all.

A quick integrating ceiling test with my lux meter confirms this is equivalent to a 40W bulb. Don't have the mean to measure actual power consuption though, which is supposed to be around 8W.

I don't have any long term experience with it but overall I'm pretty pleased with it. It looks like a good buy but it will pay for itself on the long run only, as one should expect....

I calculated that in theory, at the end of it's life, this LED bulb should save me around 70+ euros in electricity and bulbs.
 
What advantage does this serve as opposed to a 8W CFL?
Not much. No glass to break, no mercury inside I guess.

I recently bought a GE "10 watt" 4 LED spot light type bulb. In reality, I measured 11 watts consumption. It is quite bright and I can think of several uses for it - BUT it cost 50 bucks!

Box says 320 lumens...divided by 11 watts = 29 lumens/watt. I think stock Mag lights are more efficient than that. I estimate the cost savings payoff will happen about 50 years after I die. CFLs are way more efficient than this bulb, I don't know about the one the OP posted...
 
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I've recently purchased one of these at my local Lowe's (discussion here) and so far I like it. I paid $30 for it so it's much more pricey than a CFL, however the cost is worth it to me to have a warm white lamp with no UV or mercury.
.
 
What advantage does this serve as opposed to a 8W CFL?
I would say :
- Higher lifespan
- No UV or mercury as pointed out
- No electromagnetic field which safety is still questionned and up for heated debates
- Instant-on as opposed to many CFL

Disadvantages :
- In most cases, the time it takes to pay for itself will be higher than the warranty duration, which means there is a small risk if the lamp fails after waranty period
- such lamps need adequate cooling so it's not reasonnable to use it in some places
 
What advantage does this serve as opposed to a 8W CFL?

Since his lux test shows same light output of 40 watt incan, it is more efficient than a CFL. CFLs emitting true 40 wats of incan light are around 10 or 11 watts. (Assuming power draw is accurate.)

Golden dragon LEDs are quality power LEDs, and should last the rated life of 25,000 hours.
 
and not care how often it was cycled on and off.
Somehow I doubt it. Maybe the LED, not the electronics. Just like CFLs - the fluorescent part doesn't go bad, the cheap chinese electronics underneath do! I'd be willing to bet if you set one up so it flashes on and off all day it wouldn't last very long.

I really like the light output from my GE LED bulb, but I am under no illusion that it will ever save me money. It's just a cool light.
 
Since his lux test shows same light output of 40 watt incan, it is more efficient than a CFL

Irrelevant if a 40watt incan doesn't provide enough light in the first place. Nice for a college dorm, but seriously guys....how many of these arranged in a sphere will it take to match my 27watt 3500k CFL in a lampshade?

Also nice to know that the LED is being driven to only last 1/4 of it's life, which should be 70k-100k hours, not 25k.

Oh yeah, "along with UV", do CFLs also emit dagerous amounts of gamma rays?

Just funnin' with you tino ale :)
 
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blasterman, do you see replies in this thread that we can't see, where someone is stating that this LED lamp is good for an application that requires more than an conventionnal 40W bulb?

Thanks for your input anyway...

Just funnin' with you too :)
 
Even funnier, but I don't see a reply answering any of the following:

(1) Why killing a Golden Dragon with a 25k hour lifespan due to horrid thermal management is 'good' . To be more exact, ifthe LED is being murdered in such a fashion, then why is it assumed that the bulb is going to have it's initial lumen value past half of it's life cycle when it's being cooked to death? JTR1962 might be able to comment on this.

(2) Why CFLs have issues with "UV" and "magnetic fields" when the former goes nowhere near appreciable output below 400nm in strandard phosphor loads, and the later is physically impossible at low wattage levels (Unless it's implanted in your head). The mercury issue depends on what web-site you read.

(3) Why this bulb is any different than the bajillion other LED bulbs in the same class that wouldn't power my Lite-Brite.

Basically, if you answer #3, I'll give the rest.
 
(1) Why killing a Golden Dragon with a 25k hour lifespan due to horrid thermal management is 'good' . To be more exact, ifthe LED is being murdered in such a fashion, then why is it assumed that the bulb is going to have it's initial lumen value past half of it's life cycle when it's being cooked to death? JTR1962 might be able to comment on this.
I posted this in another thread but I think it's quite relevant here ( relevant parts in bold ):

The A19 screw-base lamp form factor is limited to dissipating about 4 watts of heat while still remaining at a temperature suitable for reasonable LED longevity ( i.e. 40,000 hours or more ).

Now here's the fun part. Let's assume the LED ballast has an efficiency of ηb. Further, let's assume that the LED emitter has an efficiency of ηLED. Overall efficiency of the system at converting electricity into light is therefore ηb times ηLED. Let's just call this η for simplicity.

Now let's plug some reasonable numbers in. ηb for a decent ballast could exceed 90%. However, given the size constraints 85% makes more sense ( and this could be as low as 50% for a mass-produced made in China ballast using no name parts ). But let's stick with 85% as we're trying to find the limits of the A19 form factor using state-of-the-art components.

Next up is emitter efficiency ηLED. Unfortunately this is heavily dependent upon drive current. Let's use 700 mA as a compromise between efficiency and number of emitters. The R5 XP-G is currently champ in this department, managing about 120 lm/W by my testing. However, this is under ideal thermal conditions, with the heat sink at close to room temperature. So let's derate this by 10% to 108 lm/W. 108 lm/W equates to an LED wallplug efficiency of roughly 33%, so this is what we'll use for ηLED.

The product of ηLED and ηb is 0.33*0.85 = 0.28 = η. The waste heat is therefore ( 1 - η ) times the AC input power in watts, or 0.72 times input power. This means the maximum AC wattage the lamp can be driven at without exceeding that 4 watt thermal envelope is 4 / 0.72, or 5.56 watts. Of that 5.56 watts, only ηb * 5.56 watts, or 4.72 watts, actually drive the LEDs. The rest are ballast losses. Remember that we earlier calculated LED efficacy to be 108 lm/W at the design drive current of 700 mA. So this means the lamp will have 4.72 times 108, or 510 emitter lumens. However, you still have optical losses as most bulbs have a diffuser of some type. Assume these losses are around 15%, so we end up with 0.85 * 510, or 433.5 bulb lumens. This is barely enough to replace a 40 watt incandescent lamp, and this is using the best available emitters and ballast. Now if you want to have better color rendering, figure on reducing your output by roughly another 20%. Now you're down to around 350 lumens. Granted, this is still an efficient bulb in terms of lumens per watt, coming in at around 63 lm/W. But it certainly is nothing to write home about in terms of output.

Now you can end up with better output and efficiency numbers by moving to active cooling and/or decreasing the drive current. But both of these things greatly increase costs. So now you have a great product which you probably can't even sell in numbers high enough to make your investment worthwhile.

In the end once you do the math the conclusion is always the same-you need to just ditch the screw-base form factor and move to LED fixtures if you want to obtain any reasonable output. In order to get decent outputs rivaling 100 watt incandescents with the current bulb format, you'll probably need to at least double LED efficiencies to around 200 to 225 lm/W. That isn't going to happen anytime soon.

Additional comments:

It's pretty obvious looking at that Osram lamp that the heat sink isn't up to the task of dissipating 8 watts while at the same time keeping the LED cool enough to last more than 25K hours. Note that LED lumen maintenance is exponentially related to temperature. A mere 10°C increase in junction temperature can reduce life to 50%. Another 10°C on top of that can reduce life to 25%. This is exactly what we're seeing here. The Osram lamp probably operates 20°-25°C warmer than it should. Any well designed LED product should reach at least 100K hours before hitting 70% of initial lumens. Besides the not so great life, efficiency doesn't seem all that great, either. All that being said, I can imagine some niche uses for these. One is where they'll be used outdoors, in mostly cold climate. In that scenario they might actually last over 100K hours. Another might be a hard to change lamp which is frequently cycled. Frequent starts are murder of CFLs, and incandescents have too short of a life to consider using in hard-to-reach areas. Other than those two uses, I'm having a hard time seeing what this lamp does that CFLs don't. It might last 3-4 times as long, but it's way more than 3-4 times the price.

And yes, I know Cree just hit 208 lm/W, but how long until those see mass production? Until emitters with those types of numbers hit the street, LED screw-base bulbs will remain severely limited.
 
Even funnier, but I don't see a reply answering any of the following:

(1) Why killing a Golden Dragon with a 25k hour lifespan due to horrid thermal management is 'good' . To be more exact, ifthe LED is being murdered in such a fashion, then why is it assumed that the bulb is going to have it's initial lumen value past half of it's life cycle when it's being cooked to death? JTR1962 might be able to comment on this.

(2) Why CFLs have issues with "UV" and "magnetic fields" when the former goes nowhere near appreciable output below 400nm in strandard phosphor loads, and the later is physically impossible at low wattage levels (Unless it's implanted in your head). The mercury issue depends on what web-site you read.

(3) Why this bulb is any different than the bajillion other LED bulbs in the same class that wouldn't power my Lite-Brite.

Basically, if you answer #3, I'll give the rest.

Do you have a problem with LED bulbs and need to broadcast you point of view about them in all related threads even if you input isn't really related to the subject of the thread? Because I still don't see what your input has to do with previous replies in this thread. :nana:

If this bulb is murdering the LEDs yet at the same time last long enough to save money compared to a regular bulb, yup, I can sleep ;)
 
If this bulb is murdering the LEDs yet at the same time last long enough to save money compared to a regular bulb, yup, I can sleep ;)
I still don't see any proof of that unless you pay REALLY high rates for electricity over there. I have yet to see an LED bulb with better than 30 lumens/watt total input. That is terrible efficiency.
 
Bottom line is we are not there yet.
LED-based illumination is still not a *practical* alternative for home use.
 
I pay 0,1154 euros per kWh
That's about $0.16

Then I doubt you'll ever save any money with that bulb, unless you got it for free.

I pay about $0.11/kwh. I also paid $50 for my 10 watt (11) bulb. Lets say it replaces a 40w and I use it every day for 4 hours.

4 hours/day at 40w = 160w
4 hours/day at 11w = 44w

Times 365 days, is 58.4kWh and 16kwh respectively. That means the LED bulb saves about 42kWh per year. (if you use it 4 hours EVERY day) At my electric rates, that's a savings of $4.62 per year. The bulb will take more than 10 years, or 14,600 hours for pay back. That's *IF* it lasts that long, my guess is that it won't. Not to mention the 10 years worth of interest I could have been earning if I put that money in a savings account instead of investing in an overpriced bulb...

Now, if we can get some freakin' LED bulbs that actually output 200 lumens per watt used of AC power, then you'll really have something.
 
I've recently purchased one of these at my local Lowe's (discussion here) and so far I like it. I paid $30 for it so it's much more pricey than a CFL, however the cost is worth it to me to have a warm white lamp with no UV or mercury.
.

Hi In India price fall down upto 20% in retail market and I am very happy with low voltage function upto 140V but can improve on high voltage side 240V as its common in some countries we may at times experience high voltage
 
The A19 screw-base lamp form factor is limited to dissipating about 4 watts of heat while still remaining at a temperature suitable for reasonable LED longevity ( i.e. 40,000 hours or more ).
Where/How did you come up with this assumption/conclusion?
This means the maximum AC wattage the lamp can be driven at without exceeding that 4 watt thermal envelope is 4 / 0.72, or 5.56 watts. Of that 5.56 watts, only ηb * 5.56 watts, or 4.72 watts, actually drive the LEDs.
The property of 1-die high power LED is typically 2.8-3.2V by default. The input power should equal to (number of LEDs)*(drive current)*(voltage of 1-LED).

It's pretty obvious looking at that Osram lamp that the heat sink isn't up to the task of dissipating 8 watts while at the same time keeping the LED cool enough to last more than 25K hours.
Let's calculate reverse to look at the LED driving condition and conclude again.
Lamp power * ballast efficiency = total LED power (8 * 0.85 = 6.8W)
Total LED power / number of LEDs / voltage of 1-LED = drive current (6.8 / assume 3 LEDs / 3V) = 756mA
If Osram increased the number of LEDs, they can lower the driving current to get lower LED junction temperature.
If the lamp only has 3 LEDs then it's probably too hot to last 25k hrs; but if they increase to 6 LEDs (halved drive current) then there is chance the LEDs can last 25k hrs.
 
Guys this is a 2010 thread.

LED bulbs have come a long way in the last 2 years. 7W - 8W 40W warm white equivalents are made by almost every major manufacturer and prices have come down from $30 to $10 - $12.

60W equivalents are also common though prices are higher from $17 to $27.
 
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