OSRAM Street Legal LED Headlight Bulbs.

[crdiscoverer]

I didn't bother reading absolutely all replies, but I just installed a set of the newer version (black bulbs) of the street legal Osram Nightbreaker LED in my Pathfinder r50 (H4 reflector housings), so I can tell you how things went:

My Pathfinder has very crappy reflectors. With incandescent bulbs, the low beam cutoff is relatively sharp and the hotspot is acceptable and bright, but there is absolutely no width to the beam and there is also a massive dark area started just below the cutoff. So, instead of a wide, even light blanket, it casts a narrow, bright and far away cutoff and nothing elsewhere. Good for road signs, not so good for hazards on the shoulder or potholes. The high beam is a bit better, but the reflectors are crafted in a way that you effectively lose all your low beam light, so the dark area in front of the car is now larger, further down the road. You can actually see your low beams "turning off".

You may say this is how H4 reflectors are designed to work and that light closer to the car sacrifices your night vision, but I also have a car with Koito 7" H4 reflectors (widely regarded as the best H4 reflectors ever made) and there's simply no comparison. The Koitos are wide, flat, even and bright and the high beam retains all the light from the low beam. I have had no need to replace the incandescent bulbs in them.

So, anyway, the Osrams are brighter and somehow make the beam pattern even sharper, they trump even the incandescent somehow, their design is just that good. One of the main advantages about the Osrams is that there is little to no brightness drop off as they get hotter (especially compared to cheap Chinese bulbs which shine extremely bright, but for like 5 minutes).

But, the Osrams will not magically fix a bad reflector design. The same bright far away cutoff, the same dark patches, it's all basically enhanced by the LEDs. I should have inferred all this before buying them, but I was hopeful they would fill in some of the gaps in the reflector. Alas, they did not.

So in short, I strongly recommend the Osrams for H4 reflectors, provided you are happy with your current beam pattern and you want a brighter, whiter light. They won't blind anyone and if anything, there's less stray light than with the incandescent bulbs somehow. If you are starting off with a bad reflector, don't waste your money. You will need to do a projector retrofit if you want proper night lighting.

 

[EJR]

I didn't bother reading absolutely all replies, but I just installed a set of the newer version (black bulbs) of the street legal Osram Nightbreaker LED in my Pathfinder r50 (H4 reflector housings), so I can tell you how things went:

My Pathfinder has very crappy reflectors. With incandescent bulbs, the low beam cutoff is relatively sharp and the hotspot is acceptable and bright, but there is absolutely no width to the beam and there is also a massive dark area started just below the cutoff. So, instead of a wide, even light blanket, it casts a narrow, bright and far away cutoff and nothing elsewhere. Good for road signs, not so good for hazards on the shoulder or potholes. The high beam is a bit better, but the reflectors are crafted in a way that you effectively lose all your low beam light, so the dark area in front of the car is now larger, further down the road. You can actually see your low beams "turning off".

You may say this is how H4 reflectors are designed to work and that light closer to the car sacrifices your night vision, but I also have a car with Koito 7" H4 reflectors (widely regarded as the best H4 reflectors ever made) and there's simply no comparison. The Koitos are wide, flat, even and bright and the high beam retains all the light from the low beam. I have had no need to replace the incandescent bulbs in them.

So, anyway, the Osrams are brighter and somehow make the beam pattern even sharper, they trump even the incandescent somehow, their design is just that good. One of the main advantages about the Osrams is that there is little to no brightness drop off as they get hotter (especially compared to cheap Chinese bulbs which shine extremely bright, but for like 5 minutes).

But, the Osrams will not magically fix a bad reflector design. The same bright far away cutoff, the same dark patches, it's all basically enhanced by the LEDs. I should have inferred all this before buying them, but I was hopeful they would fill in some of the gaps in the reflector. Alas, they did not.

So in short, I strongly recommend the Osrams for H4 reflectors, provided you are happy with your current beam pattern and you want a brighter, whiter light. They won't blind anyone and if anything, there's less stray light than with the incandescent bulbs somehow. If you are starting off with a bad reflector, don't waste your money. You will need to do a projector retrofit if you want proper night lighting.

There really isn't anything revolutionary with the Osram Nightbreaker H4 LED that sets it apart from any ole' generic H4 LED you can find littered all over amazon or ebay. It still inherits all the same technical issues that prevent it from being a legitimate 1:1 filament bulb replacement. Sure, it may have a slight advantage from the others with respect to better position of the emitters and thinner interval of the light emitting areas but this doesn't guarantee optical compatibility. It just means it'll work "better" in *some* vehicles not *ALL* vehicles.

The only reason why the NB LED H4 and H7 have legal compliance in certain foreign countries is due to certification through lab testing. This means each headlamp is run through a test procedure that measures the light output with the LED bulb against the EU lighting standards. If the beam meets all the requirements, its added to the approval list.

Unfortunately, as much as we'd like to believe it, our eyes and subjective impressions are not capable of properly determining whether or not a LED headlight bulb is suitable for street use. A headlight beam is too complex. Its not just a blob of light. There are numerous specific angles, with numerous intensity requirements that are legally permitted. Its impossible to know if a beam is in compliance just by looking at the beam on a garage wall or road.

 

[idleprocess]

Sure, it may have a slight advantage from the others with respect to better position of the emitters and thinner interval of the light emitting areas but this doesn't guarantee optical compatibility. It just means it'll work "better" in *some* vehicles not *ALL* vehicles.

With conventional LED methods there is but better approximation of filament bulbs. Filament LEDs could just about replicate a halogen bulb ... provided advancements in thermal performance/ruggedness are made.

 

[EJR]

Filament LEDs could just about replicate a halogen bulb ... provided advancements in thermal performance/ruggedness are made.

But it can't. The technology just isn't there yet. Which is why the current template of LED headlight bulbs consists of a PCB with emitters back to back sandwiched in between an aluminum body. That's the only way currently to produce enough flux that rivals that of a halogen bulb. But despite having sufficient "brightness" it lacks equivalent near field emission which is KEY to a fully optimized beam.

 

[jtr1962]

With conventional LED methods there is but better approximation of filament bulbs. Filament LEDs could just about replicate a halogen bulb ... provided advancements in thermal performance/ruggedness are made.

The obvious issue with that is the poor thermal path from the LED to ambient. Filament LEDs work fine in household lamps with 2 to perhaps 10 watts of waste heat. We need emitters to get perhaps 80% efficient or better at high drive levels for filament LEDs to be viable in automotive bulbs. That's ~250 lm/W or better. We already have LED filaments close to that, but only at fairly low drive levels, as in the new Philips 200 lm/W bulbs.

 

[idleprocess]

But it can't. The technology just isn't there yet.

Thus my provided advancements caveat. It's a ways off, contingent on marked improvements that may not be in the cards.

The obvious issue with that is the poor thermal path from the LED to ambient

They would need to be able to tolerate considerably more power than present designs do with the same negligible heatsinking.

 

[crdiscoverer]

There really isn't anything revolutionary with the Osram Nightbreaker H4 LED that sets it apart from any ole' generic H4 LED you can find littered all over amazon or ebay.

It sounds like you haven't tried a lot of those eBay/Amazon bulbs then.

There is a clear advantage. I wouldn't say revolutionary, but there are certain areas where a properly engineered, brand-name LED bulb will excel:

- Power drop
- Fan noise
- Flicker
- Ability to reuse factory dust covers
- Overall quality and durability
- How close to a filament bulb the beam pattern is

I have tried many aftermarket LED bulbs, I would have a drawer full of them but I sold or returned most. Some may do an acceptable job at mimicking the halogen beam pattern, but their power drop is massive, sometimes almost half of their initial brightness is lost. That's why most Amazon reviews are trash, because they install the bulbs, get out of the car to take a few pictures, are amazed at how bright they are and don't bother checking back after a 1 hour drive. This is for the most part a forum about flashlights and this is very well known issue with cheap "1 million" lumen torches on Amazon, eBay, etc.

But anyway, to me the H4 bulbs are a special animal because of their low beam shielding. An H4 reflector doesn't use the lower part of the bowl for low beam, so a LED doesn't need to mimic 360 degree light. Part of it is blocked by design, which really suits how LEDs are built and you said it perfectly:

PCB with emitters back to back sandwiched in between

There is always a dark area directly above and directly under, but with H4 bulbs you can: A. Not worry about the area directly under and B. Use that shield to your advantage to reflect some of that light upwards. The high beam does bring back the usual problems but it affects some reflectors more than others.

Here you have my very own Pathfinder's reflectors and I have marked the low beam (orange) and high beam (blue) areas:


Here is the Osram low beam in action. There is no need to fill in any gaps in the low part of the reflector bowl and there is light from the emitters directly above. Note that the two reflective surfaces above are split in the center directly above the filament center, so that gives them some angle which helps the LED:


And here is the high beam. When the low beam chip turns off and the high beam takes its place, you can clearly see the darker areas directly above and below the centerline. The significantly brighter light from the LED more than compensates for this IMO:


I could show you their beam pattern vs halogen against a wall, but I know that it won't be sufficient when talking about light projected in 3D space and it would be unfair to these bulbs given how bad I believe these factory reflectors are. There are others who have done the comparison, you'll find them if you Google around.

 

[idleprocess]

there are certain areas where a properly engineering, brand-name LED bulb will excel:

- Power drop
- Fan noise
- Flicker
- Ability to reuse factory dust covers
- Overall quality and durability
- How close to a filament bulb the beam pattern is

For sure. I've seen the bug-eyed fleabay garbage chock full o generic 5050 packages that's guaranteed to look worse than a PnP HID kit that's cooked the reflector and lens (mercifully with less glare because LOL <500mW 5050 packages). I've seen well-engineered LED bulbs that do their best to replicate filament position + geometry and they can come remarkably subjectively close to a halogen filament. And unlike the grade-Z stuff being marketed by ever-escalating units of megalumen they probably meet their stated output/power numbers while sustaining output without freaking out the electrical system and lasting more than a night and a half.

And subjectively, I've seen well-engineered LED bulbs that look better than the middling projectors with stock halogens. The light distribution looks similar, they don't flood the foreground, there aren't any unacceptable hotspots, the artifacts aren't markedly different / distracting, and what divergence they offer seems to be spread laterally in a welcome fashion.

But the goniophotometer doesn't lie. Whatever you think of FMVSS 108 as a standard (and OEMs' often questionable compliance), they're just not up to snuff with the regs.

 

[EJR]

It sounds like you haven't tried a lot of those eBay/Amazon bulbs then.

Does it sound like it? On the contrary, I HAVE. Light testing is my hobby.

There is a clear advantage. I wouldn't say revolutionary, but there are certain areas where a properly engineering, brand-name LED bulb will excel:

- Power drop
- Fan noise
- Flicker
- Ability to reuse factory dust covers
- Overall quality and durability
- How close to a filament bulb the beam pattern is

Your first mistake is assuming that "brand name" always equates to "proper engineering". While in general, Osram and Philips, who are leaders in automotive light sources and lamps, do tend to have more credibility for designing "good" lighting products, this doesn't mean they still can't put out something that just doesn't work correctly in all applications. In fact some of their LED bulb lineups use rebranded cheap Chinese garbage bulbs. No engineering here. Just something to hit a particular price point for the bottom dollar.

Electrical, thermal, colorimetric and geometric characteristics, although pertinent to a good overall design, rate LOWEST on the priority scale. They are completely meaningless and useless if the light source is incapable of FIRST meeting all the photometric requirements. Without sufficient light emitting equivalence (i.e. craptastic beam), who cares about durability, flicker or whether or not you can twist on the dust covers without obstruction.

I have tried many aftermarket LED bulbs, I would have a drawer full of them but I sold or returned most.

So have I. Except I keep all mine. This HERE is just a half sample of what I have. (bulbs that is)

Some may do an acceptable job at mimicking the halogen beam pattern, but their power drop is massive, sometimes almost half of their initial brightness is lost. That's why most Amazon reviews are trash, because they install the bulbs, get out of the car to take a few pictures, are amazed at how bright they are and don't bother checking back after a 1 hour drive.

Yes some do an "ok" job (and some great) but only in *specific* applications and with certain LED bulbs. That's sort of my point. An LED bulb, for example, may do great in a Nissan Rogue but may do horribly in a Ford Focus though they are both H11 lamps. So when someone says "oh these H11 LED bulbs I bought here do great in my car, you should get them for your car since you also have H11" is horrible advice. That's because LED bulbs are NOT universally compatible optically. No matter the brand.

And amazon reviews aren't trash because of output loss due to poor thermal design. Their trash because people are incapable of knowing of what a proper good beam pattern is if it hit them in the face. See HERE for a collage I put together which is just a small sample of the comedic reviews.

But anyway, to me the H4 bulbs are a special animal because of their low beam shielding. An H4 reflector doesn't use the lower part of the bowl for low beam, so a LED doesn't need to mimic 360 degree light. Part of it is blocked by design, which really suits how LEDs are built and you said it perfectly:

The H4 is a complex bulb with very specific requirements pertaining to the positioning of the filament and shields. Have you ever looked at its technical sheet? You should. Because your over simplification of how a H4 LED is really "suited" is not accurate at all. Just know that there is more than meets the eye when comparing these two light sources.

I would agree that an LED bulb doesn't *always* need to necessarily emit a 360 degree emission, but there are certain lamps in which the optics require light to reach certain areas in order to fully reproduce the intended, compliant beam.

Filament

LED

 

[crdiscoverer]

Except I keep all mine. This HERE is just a half sample of what I have.

I see a few familiar ones there. I've been through some of those.

See HERE for a collage I put together which is just a small sample of the comedic reviews.

I don't claim to be an expert myself, but that's indeed the other extreme.

I like debating with experts, though, because sometimes the "real world" aspect is missing from their perspective. I have a 50 year old car that was delivering ~11 volts to its H4 bulbs (and before that, to sealed beams). That's - according to Daniel Stern's chart - like 60% of the advertised light output? I don't recall the exact numbers but it's bad, really bad. I have of course taken care of that but when I get thrown regulations, laws and lab results I can only think about all the stock headlights I see every single day on the road that are less safe than my 11v candles or the guy who just bought some crap LED off eBay.

Oxidized plastic lenses, insufficient voltage (or overvoltage), cars that had minor fender benders and their lights are crooked, cars that have their cluster lighting always on so people drive with only their DRLs (and no tail lights), people who buy the incorrect halogen bulbs, cars with broken headlight adjusters, automatic or manual... cases abound. My E39 had stock Hella projectors which had their reflective coating completely falling apart. Those projectors are not separate units and a new set of HID housings is $2000. I replaced them by taking apart the housings. Worse, I was reading on a Volvo forum of a guy who had to mod/restore his headlights because they were NLA. What was he supposed to do? Throw the whole car away because doing anything other than using the stock bulbs/stock housings is (debatably) unsafe? We can't take those newly fabricated lights to a lab, that is the real world. Trying to mix-and-match every car to whatever projector, HID setup, LED bulbs, etc. works best, doesn't glare oncoming traffic and is a clear improvement over stock is really difficult and can't be measured in labs.

There are some of us who really strive to do this right but without all the necessary background, and I do appreciate the debate because I learn from it. These Osram bulbs were a dream just a few years ago (or the Philips Ultinons). Something from a known brand, street legal in many countries. This thread started by wondering if they were any good, IMO they are and I am admitting that for some cars (like mine) they are not magic and can't fix a bad reflector.

 

[robscorpio]

Why bother trying to invent a led that will work in halogen designed optics, when you can manufacture optics that is designed for a led. Give it another 10 years and all those led, hid retrofits will disappear the way aftermarket stereos did. Now even econoboxes come with led lights from a factory. those some still use bulbs for turn signals, luxury brands phased out bulbs years ago. go find a 60+k car that has halogen bulbs today, you wont find any.

Yes. I had a rental car which was a Nissan Altima 2021 ( and more recently a 2021 Toyota Camry ) and the most impressive thing about the Altima was amazing LED projectors .

Extremely bright low beams with long throw and almost zero artifacts [ BMWs have some lines and slightly uneven dispersion on some models I've ridden [ I think 2018 ] .

But Altima had almost none - like a Halogen even dispersion much higher candela and throw and the high beams were great - tremendous throw and wide even lighting for dark roads and expressways with no oncoming traffic affected .