:candle:
Yeah.... this thing called "fire" ain't working too well.
Now where did I put my L4, again?
Output or runtime?
- Thread starter afahmic
- Start date
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:candle:
Yeah.... this thing called "fire" ain't working too well.
Now where did I put my L4, again?
PAB
Enlightened
I want my cake and eat it too. I want a two stage light that has a low that will last all night (10 or 12 hours) and a super bright high setting.
wild68fury
Newly Enlightened
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2007
- Messages
- 92
Neither, both have terrible efficiency. If it were between 120 lumens for 4.8 hours or 12 lumens of 65 hours, then I would go for output.
wishywashy7
Enlightened
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2007
- Messages
- 250
Runtime. I forget to recharge my batteries sometimes. I agree with the others that multimode makes us have it both ways. 51 runtime 50 output
Tobias Bossert
Newly Enlightened
My hobby is to explore large alpine caves. Typical expeditions last three to five days. Therefore I prefere runtime.
At the moment I'm developping headlamps with separate battery belts that can deliver about more than 90 lm (not focused) constant output over at least 9 h runtime with one battery pack at 0..5°C. At the moment this will need batterypacks with more than 15 Wh.
But sometimes I prefere to have high output for short times to get my bearings in extremely large rooms or in endless deep pits. Therefore I plan the headlamp to have two parts: One for long term continuous lightning (no optics) and one with very narrow beam with maximum light output. At the moment, narrow beam output from one LED can achieve maximum 150 lm in practice, since the efficiency of the optics and the light output of LEDs are limited.
As far as I can see, there is only one such headlamp on the market (www.scurion.ch) but far too expensive for most of my friends!
At the moment I'm developping headlamps with separate battery belts that can deliver about more than 90 lm (not focused) constant output over at least 9 h runtime with one battery pack at 0..5°C. At the moment this will need batterypacks with more than 15 Wh.
But sometimes I prefere to have high output for short times to get my bearings in extremely large rooms or in endless deep pits. Therefore I plan the headlamp to have two parts: One for long term continuous lightning (no optics) and one with very narrow beam with maximum light output. At the moment, narrow beam output from one LED can achieve maximum 150 lm in practice, since the efficiency of the optics and the light output of LEDs are limited.
As far as I can see, there is only one such headlamp on the market (www.scurion.ch) but far too expensive for most of my friends!
Boris
Newly Enlightened
For me, it is almost impossible to choose. ill choose both. Runtime, it's very important for me, but it is also the output when i needed. That's why i joined this forum in the first place, and what keeps me buying new lights when they offer some improvement.
Bearcat
Enlightened
If I could vote twice, I would. I think a lot of people are missing the point that voted for output over run time. It seems to me that backing off of output just a little greatly increases run-time and hardly changes what the eye perceives in brightness, but there are those who say to hell with run-time, give me a ounce more of brightness to boast about.
dulridge
Enlightened
I have, and use both. On my keys I have a fauxton on every (I carry at least 3 key rings at work - home, car, and work keys + whatever other keys I need - working in secure areas can be a pain.) ring and assorted AAA devices. I tend to reach for the Ultrafire 602C running a 10440, but i have a Fenix E0 (thanks 4sevens) on the ring with the car keys. The Fenix still has the AAA it came with and still works just fine. The work keys have a fauxton, a strange device with a compass, and a laser pointer. I have to do far more PowerPoint than I am happy with, hence the pointer.
In my work bag I have at least an Ultrafire C3 and enough Eneloops to run it for the rest of the decade (actually for the camera that lives there too) and at least one Orb Raw (1 Luxeon 3 and 1 Cree - one will be on my belt, the other one will be in my pockets).
Counting the lights I normally carry at work, I have 3 fauxtons, 2 strange devices which are basically fauxtons but have compasses attached, 1 Fenix E0, 1 Ultrafire 602C, 1 Ultrafire C3, 1 MTE Rebel light (5 mode CR123 battery), an Orb Raw or two, plus whatever else I'm playing with - usually an incan of at least 300 lumens plus whatever's latest in the toy department. In the car there will be at least a headlamp which lives there plus something powerful. Usually at least one primary CR123 light will be there as well - usually a mod that has too ugly a beam to live anywhere else.
Currently the latest toy is a Nuwai device that their website doesn't admit to (ALX 1213N - if you can find one, buy it and throw away the LED that came with it); running on 3 4/5SubC 1300mAh NiCd cells on a Luxeon I. Replacing this with an SSC P4 LED (T bin) gives you 3x the light output for twice the runtime (290 vs. 570mA current draw). Not to mention a far nicer beam. No nasty green beam colour, no rings. Free lunch anyone?
Just modded one of these for a cop friend - he's delighted. No rings, no green beam and enough runtime for a night shift. This matters seriously to him - as well as more light for longer. He actually called me at home to tell me how delighted he was.
I do get some grief for my light collection given that I work in a psychiatric hospital - one of the student nurses just spent a couple of hours with me on my flashaholism. At least it is less harmful than most of the addictions I deal with day-to-day. Given that I've been a flashaholic for longer than said lassie has been alive...
So runtime/output - who knows? I chose output but I live in a city where we have lost power (on both occasions someone doing silly things with a backhoe) twice since 1990 and both power cuts were for less than 30 minutes on Sunday afternoons (Both of them in daylight).
If I lived where I used to where power was less than reliable (30 blackouts in 20 years - total of all of them less than 6 days) I might go for runtime but it isn't an issue here, hence output.
Doing the other job, I look for power within limits - as in what helps my nearly 50 year old eyes focus on tiny text. This needs a lot of light in a small volume. But mostly lights get used on low as high is to bright for use at 6" range with a magnifying glass.
Suppose it depends on what you want to do. I can rely on the local AC power so my requirements may differ from others. Where a friend of mine used to live (about 5 miles from he nearest pylon) till his wife left him for another woman, runtime was king. He had no mains power at all so batteries had to run for as long as possible. There, about 0.1 lumens would be useful - the light pollution here is brighter than that.
So it depends....
But I'll still go for output. Maybe because I used to use ex-submarine cells through an inverter for power - 2V over 1000Ah capacity. Not that these cells were portable - about 4 of them to the ton. RCR123 cells beat that every time.
In my work bag I have at least an Ultrafire C3 and enough Eneloops to run it for the rest of the decade (actually for the camera that lives there too) and at least one Orb Raw (1 Luxeon 3 and 1 Cree - one will be on my belt, the other one will be in my pockets).
Counting the lights I normally carry at work, I have 3 fauxtons, 2 strange devices which are basically fauxtons but have compasses attached, 1 Fenix E0, 1 Ultrafire 602C, 1 Ultrafire C3, 1 MTE Rebel light (5 mode CR123 battery), an Orb Raw or two, plus whatever else I'm playing with - usually an incan of at least 300 lumens plus whatever's latest in the toy department. In the car there will be at least a headlamp which lives there plus something powerful. Usually at least one primary CR123 light will be there as well - usually a mod that has too ugly a beam to live anywhere else.
Currently the latest toy is a Nuwai device that their website doesn't admit to (ALX 1213N - if you can find one, buy it and throw away the LED that came with it); running on 3 4/5SubC 1300mAh NiCd cells on a Luxeon I. Replacing this with an SSC P4 LED (T bin) gives you 3x the light output for twice the runtime (290 vs. 570mA current draw). Not to mention a far nicer beam. No nasty green beam colour, no rings. Free lunch anyone?
Just modded one of these for a cop friend - he's delighted. No rings, no green beam and enough runtime for a night shift. This matters seriously to him - as well as more light for longer. He actually called me at home to tell me how delighted he was.
I do get some grief for my light collection given that I work in a psychiatric hospital - one of the student nurses just spent a couple of hours with me on my flashaholism. At least it is less harmful than most of the addictions I deal with day-to-day. Given that I've been a flashaholic for longer than said lassie has been alive...
So runtime/output - who knows? I chose output but I live in a city where we have lost power (on both occasions someone doing silly things with a backhoe) twice since 1990 and both power cuts were for less than 30 minutes on Sunday afternoons (Both of them in daylight).
If I lived where I used to where power was less than reliable (30 blackouts in 20 years - total of all of them less than 6 days) I might go for runtime but it isn't an issue here, hence output.
Doing the other job, I look for power within limits - as in what helps my nearly 50 year old eyes focus on tiny text. This needs a lot of light in a small volume. But mostly lights get used on low as high is to bright for use at 6" range with a magnifying glass.
Suppose it depends on what you want to do. I can rely on the local AC power so my requirements may differ from others. Where a friend of mine used to live (about 5 miles from he nearest pylon) till his wife left him for another woman, runtime was king. He had no mains power at all so batteries had to run for as long as possible. There, about 0.1 lumens would be useful - the light pollution here is brighter than that.
So it depends....
But I'll still go for output. Maybe because I used to use ex-submarine cells through an inverter for power - 2V over 1000Ah capacity. Not that these cells were portable - about 4 of them to the ton. RCR123 cells beat that every time.
hopkins
Enlightened
Its kind of a false question now with multi mode LED lights.
Anyone else see that show on Dicovery Ch - The History of Flashlights ?
100 years ago the battery tech was so primitive that a handheld flashlight
would die in a few minutes so everyone learned quickly to just 'flash' the beam
for a second and keep it off all long as possible. ergo the name.
Hiking back to the car one time it got dark and the only flashlight we'd
brought went nearly dead in minutes. So we'd only flash it here and there
to step over rocks in the deep darkness under trees. Amazing how dark
adapted eyes can see by star light only but the tree shadows were
voids.
If all you've got is powerful short burn light. Use that old technique: 'flash'
'flash', 'flash'.
Anyone else see that show on Dicovery Ch - The History of Flashlights ?
100 years ago the battery tech was so primitive that a handheld flashlight
would die in a few minutes so everyone learned quickly to just 'flash' the beam
for a second and keep it off all long as possible. ergo the name.
Hiking back to the car one time it got dark and the only flashlight we'd
brought went nearly dead in minutes. So we'd only flash it here and there
to step over rocks in the deep darkness under trees. Amazing how dark
adapted eyes can see by star light only but the tree shadows were
voids.
If all you've got is powerful short burn light. Use that old technique: 'flash'
'flash', 'flash'.
270winchester
Flashlight Enthusiast
ah, nothing like being left in the dark when the flat output drops to nothing without warning.
trying to change battery in an adverse environment(rain, mud, etc) is always fun with these electronics.
ScubaSnyder
Enlightened
This is a toss-up considering it would depend what you would be using the light for.
mdocod
Flashaholic
not going to vote for either because If I had to choose just 1 light I would god for regulated runtime. If It were up to me I would do what I always do, that's carry a wide selection of lights each with a different balance of output and runtime. Everyone should have a heavy hitter and a marathoner in their pockets at all times IMO.
RecycledElectron
Newly Enlightened
I had to go for output. I EDC a JB CL-E, and it spends most of it's time on high. Only use it on low to get around the house after my wife goes to bed. After she closes her peepers light pollution bothers her. OK, it's not 120 lumen, just 70 out the front, but it has high enough output and long enough runtime (oops) to satisfy most of my needs. The lights I'm currently looking at to buy are brighter, not dimmer so output it is. :shrug:
thunderlight
Enlightened
There is always a case to be made for either one depending on the hypothetical situation that you might encounter. However, for the majority of events in my life, runtime is what I want. The lights I EDC are AA and AAA with fairly low output by CPF standards. I carry more powerful lights in my car. In fact, I have no LED more powerful than a Luxeon at the moment. Some day, that will change.
sclemin1
Newly Enlightened
I voted runtime, but find the question somewhat difficult to answer.
I don't require the brightest light but some people do.
For me, the newest small EDC multilevel lights are fantastic, you can get
long runtimes and fairly high output if needed.
I don't require the brightest light but some people do.
For me, the newest small EDC multilevel lights are fantastic, you can get
long runtimes and fairly high output if needed.
cernobila
Flashlight Enthusiast
If you cut a piece of timber too short than you throw it out, if you cut it too long then you simply cut again........so it is with output, better to have too much and use a little (multi-level lights are ideal) than only have a little. I can always carry spare cells but cant make a small light shine real bright......
Runtime, far and away the most important factor for my purposes and uses for a light. Doesn't matter if it's a single level or multi-level light to me. I want to hit the switch knowing I still have juice. I can't always depend on having a spare set of batteries or a recharger available. I'd rather have the peace of mind knowing that I have at least some illumination over being able to outshine the sun for 5 minutes.
Avatar28
Enlightened
I can honestly say it depends on the situation. Do I have any extra cells to run it for example. If I have extra batteries I would generally say output over runtime. But there can be too much of a good thing. For example I often find my P3D Rebel too bright on turbo for some uses indoors and I end up dazzling my eyes when I get it too close to something that is light colored. But that's why I EDC a multimode light. It's really the only way to go.
But if I had to pick within the confines of the hypothetical scenario, I would have to go with moderate output from the most efficient emitter possible. Something akin to an P3D or L2D running on high. Good enough output for the majority of situations and still quite decent runtime.
But if I had to pick within the confines of the hypothetical scenario, I would have to go with moderate output from the most efficient emitter possible. Something akin to an P3D or L2D running on high. Good enough output for the majority of situations and still quite decent runtime.
cslinger
Enlightened
Runtime, no doubt. I prefer multi level lights primarily for this reason. I would venture a guess that my HDS/Novatacs spend more time at less then 10 lumens then all of them combined do at over 40 lumens.
One of the reasons I like the MAGLED offerings is that the 2D light will run for 30+hours giving off way more then adequate light for any task, and run in a use-able moon mode for quite sometime after.
One of the reasons I like the MAGLED offerings is that the 2D light will run for 30+hours giving off way more then adequate light for any task, and run in a use-able moon mode for quite sometime after.
