Overwhelmed

[mike2636]

First off.....CPF is blowing my little mind! I thought I was a geek but this is clearly the big leagues!
I've got a modest collection of flashlights... 3 Innova's, several Surefires(6P, 6Z, E1E), Scorpion, a Blackhawk Gladius, a Cabela's 9P,a couple of Mag lights including the big rechargeable. I'm also a Deputy Sheriff so I have the issued Stinger XT in the car.
On to my question.....I'm real tired of buying 123's. I understand that the voltage is too high on the RCR 123's for my incan 6P's. Can I use the RCR's in my Innova LED units and my Blackhawk Gladius? I'm getting to like the LED's for their runtime.....even if the light is a little "weird". So, I'm gonna take the plunge on converting one of my 6P's to get my feet wet. I might be able to get the body bored but I'm not sure I really need to....yet
What are the popular battery/head combinations? I like the looks of the Malkoff units. Rechargeable batteries are one of my requirements. The LED units have a voltage range. I guess the trick is to match the batteries to keep the highest voltage the LED will operate at.
You guys have my head swimming. I've got my 9P on my rifle and I'm dreaming of a much brighter output and a strobe capable tail cap. Some of the threads here on CPF are just awesome and I'm still reading them trying to catch up.
I hate being the newbie and I really appreciate your patience.

 

[Kestrel]

Actually, even if you have only one post, but you mention that the Malkoff units look good, you're no newbie in my book.:thumbsup:

A Malkoff M30 (the 3v (actually 1.5-5v) version of the 6v M60) running a single 3.7v lithium ion 17670 would be a fantastic setup to make your 6P rechargeable, and you can carry the other 17670 cell as a spare (when the protection circuit in the battery kicks: low power: your light will suddenly be an un-light). The Malkoff units are a great match for lithium rechargeables as well as lithium primaries, unlike the stock SureFire lamp assemblies. A single large cell in the 3v module is superior to running two rcr123's in a 6v module, IMO.

I don't know anything about the Inovas or the Gladius. Other posts are incoming, I imagine.

Oh, and :welcome:

 

[Kestrel]

Oh, and I wouldn't bore that 6P for 18650's. The metal will be a little thin in the O-ring area, giving you a potential weak point. Folks here do, and that's cool and all, but I'd hate being in law enforcement where mechanical failure from impact/dropping is very very undesireable.

Also, that 9P will be fantastic with a Malkoff M60. Two 17500's will make that an awesome unit. In a pinch, you can also use the M30 in the 9P and run it off of two AA alkalines (with a cardboard spacer to keep the cells centered). That will give you 130 regulated lumens for about an hour (instead of ~240 lumens for ~1:15 hrs that the M30 will output from one 3.7v LiIon in a 6P).

 

[mike2636]

Thx Kestrel, your advice about not boring the 6P's is sound. Hot-rodding is fun and all but I have too many hobbies already! I am primarily concerned with reliability and optimizing the system. Which brings up a question.....can an M30 put out the same light as an M60? Why would one choose one voltage rating over another?

 

[kramer5150]

Sounds like you have more than enough lights to keep you busy. take your time if theres no hurry, read and re-read everything you can. You might want to start by telling everyone what it is you like and don't like about the lights you have... maybe pick a couple of the SFs and start with that. This will allow you and others to understand your own preferences and what you are looking for.

Yes, I too prefer LEDs, but I always keep a Xenon P60 module on standby. I knew right away that primaries were not going to work for me so its been RCR123 since day-1, and I only use primaries with the P60. FWIW, they do make 3V RCR123 cells that will not any of the lights you already have. Note that you will loose run time with RCR cells, compared to even the cheapest primaries.

There is a P60 module sticky that discusses every P60 drop in known to CPF-kind. Malkoffs are very popular, but there are other good alternatives. I like a low-low mode to help preserve night vision... but thats my preference.

Read the welcome mat too.

This is a GREAT forum... I agree!!

:welcome::welcome:

 

[M@elstrom]

I don't know anything about the Inovas or the Gladius.

To the best of my knowledge you cannot use the old rechargeable lithium cells in the Inovas as their input range is strictly up to 6v, I've never tried a fully charged Li-Ion cell in one so I couldn't confirm it would work... same with the Gladius

However the newer LiFePO4 chemistry cells have a lower nominal voltage but I can't vouch for them either (AW18650/17670 user)

Sounds like the OPs got everything BUT... a HID light! :thinking:

 

[Flying Turtle]

Howdy neighbor, and welcome to CPF. Don't worry about being a newbie, we've all been there. It's easy to understand your feeling of being overwhelmed. I remember thinking "wow" when I first stumbled on to this forum years ago. And, it's such a friendly place, so ask away and you will receive.

Thanks for helping to keep things orderly around here.

Geoff

 

[Kestrel]

Can an M30 put out the same light as an M60? Why would one choose one voltage rating over another?

The M30 has pretty much the same output, it is just configured for a lower input voltage. For voltage ratings & rechargeable configurations, I really recommend reading mdocod's two great guides, you'll find a lot of what you're looking for in this one:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=201375
(for compatibility considerations, consider the SureFire P60L's modules cited in the compatibility chart to be comparable with 3.8-9v M60's.)

His incan guide for rechargeables also has a lot of good background info:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=161536

Re: Malkoff units, there is a lot of good information in the various Malkoff M60 and M30 threads that are kicking around. Folks here often say that they are the best drop-in made. You can read the specifics on the M30 at the Malkoff website:
http://www.malkoffdevices.com/shop2/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_14_16&products_id=29

 

[mike2636]

I've been reading a bunch here and still have a question.....given the wide voltage range of most bulbs/emitters whatever, how important is it to config the power source to the upper end of the voltage range? I understand that too high a voltage is bad and usually fatal. I know that batteries have a significant droop over their life and the regulation tries to keep it in range by pulling more current. If a bulb is rated 3.7-9v is the output highest at 9v? Does the regulator try to keep the supply near 9V?
Thx

 

[HKJ]

I've been reading a bunch here and still have a question.....given the wide voltage range of most bulbs/emitters whatever, how important is it to config the power source to the upper end of the voltage range? I understand that too high a voltage is bad and usually fatal. I know that batteries have a significant droop over their life and the regulation tries to keep it in range by pulling more current. If a bulb is rated 3.7-9v is the output highest at 9v? Does the regulator try to keep the supply near 9V?
Thx

Incan bulbs does not have a wide range and going over/under the specified voltage has rather large consequences.
To low voltage: Very low light output and very long lifetime.
To high voltage: Very high light output and very short lifetime.

With leds it is another story, they are usual controlled from a driver that adjust the voltage to the led voltage. These drivers have a large input range where they will work, going outside that range can blow the driver circuit.
Leds usual works at 3 to 3.7 volt and your have two kind of drives, one that raises voltages and one that lowers voltages, i.e. a driver that is specified for 3.7 volt to 9 volt will be the type that lowers voltage (buck).

 

[Gunner12]

Incan bulbs break when they are driven too hard. The more voltage you give to them the more current they take and the more heat until you hit the breaking point. There are a few(very few) incan lights with a circuit to keep the voltage and current to the bulb constant so you can't over or under drive the bulb unless you mess around with the circuit.

White LED, they work at 3-3.7v or multiples of such if the LED has more then one die and they are wired in series. The voltage range you see for LED lights are the voltage that the driver/circuit can take. For example, a 3.7-9v circuit(since this one lowers voltage, it is a buck circuit) will supply the voltage the LED needs to the LED(ususally around 3.6v) as long as the voltage input is within the range of the driver. If input voltage is over the voltage that the driver can handle, then the driver can burn out. If it is lower then the voltage that driver supposed to use, then the LED will either not light up or the driver will go into direct drive, which means the battery will almost directly power the LED.

With a boost driver, if the voltage is lower then the specifications of the driver, then the driver might be in "moon mode"(the LED will light up, but not much) or the driver won't work. If the voltage is over the specified voltage, then the driver will either burn out or it will go into direct drive, battery direcly powers the LED(this can cause the LED to be overdriven, and sometimes burn out).

:welcome:

 

[mike2636]

Great explanations, thanx to both of you. I think I get it now.....mostly :thinking:
I see some of the drop-in's have rating of 3.7-13v for the 9p replacements. Can these also be used in a 6p? ISTM that the units that can go up to 13v are more flexible for use in my collection as I could swap them around if I wanted.
Thx
Mike

 

[Gunner12]

There are ones that can take up to 18v. If your 6P is within the voltage range(6v or 7.4v depending on battery you use) it will work. Unless you use special batteries to get over 13v with your 6P, then the drop-in will be fine.

For both the 6P and 9P, a drop-in from 3.7-9v will be fine unless you want to use 3 RCR123s in the 9P, then look at drop-ins for up to 13v or more.

 

[Kestrel]

For both the 6P and 9P, a drop-in from 3.7-9v will be fine unless you want to use 3 RCR123s in the 9P, then look at drop-ins for up to 13v or more.

I'm guessing this is for incan modules? 2x17500 has far more runtime than 3xRCR123, and should give the same output with most LED modules. Even a higher-voltage regulated LED module shouldn't deliver more output with the greater voltage (7.4v -> 11.1v) due to regulation and limitations of the emitter? I am not familiar with the incan modules, I could easily be wrong trying to generalize between the two.
Sorry to be troubling you Gunner12, I'm just trying to avoid a possible misunderstanding by the OP.

 

[Gunner12]

For LED modules, incan modules have a pretty specific voltage range. Above = , below = dim.

A good driver(LED module, incans don't have a driver) should not change current to the LED(and hence output) as long as the input voltage is within the voltage range.

Sorry to be troubling you Gunner12, I'm just trying to avoid a possible misunderstanding by the OP.

Don't worry about it, I don't mind clarifying things.