P60 host question

[gcbryan]

My understanding is that the P60 host terminology is referring to a flashlight that is the size of a Surefire 6P so in effect it's a clone of the 6P...the parts are interchangeable and standardized is the whole point I believe.

If I am correct in my understanding then why are all of the tailcaps (as far as I can tell) clickies in the P60 hosts rather than the twist/momentary button found in the 6P?

Are there any replacement tailcaps for the P60 hosts that are more like that found on the 6P?

 

[fishx65]

A P60 host is just a flashlight that can take P60 modules. This does not mean that the threads and body parts will fit a Surefire 6P. Solarforce is a host that can interchange parts with a Surefire 6P.

 

[Black Rose]

While the P60 hosts are clones of the 6P, not all parts from all hosts are interchangeable.

For example, Solarforce hosts have head and tailcap threads that are Surefire 6P compatible (but the bezel threads are not) so you can use Z44 heads and Z41 tailcaps on a Solarforce L2/L2P host and vice versa.

 

[kramer5150]

P60 host just means it can host a P60 drop in. Just because it can host a P60, does not mean all the parts are SF compatible. Furthermore... just because the light can host a SF-P60, does NOT mean it is capable of hosting a Malkoff or DX LED module. Furthermore yet again, there are cases of hosts that can host malkoff and DX modules but can NOT host a surefire-P60.

Confused...? Its best to NOT think of it in terms of sweeping generalizations, but in terms of specific models and compatibilities.

As you are finding, there are a lot of subtle differences between all the makes.

 

[gcbryan]

I'm guessing there are no Z41 type (cheaper) tailcap clones?

From looking at pictures it looks like the way Solarforce bezels lock in the glass lens are similar to the way Uniquefire's L2 clone does it.

I also have an older Surefire 6P (incandescent) and I can't even tell how the glass is held in.

Surefires are too expensive to tear up and use to mod since if you break something in the process it's just not worth it.

I have a Uniquefire L2 (XP-G) and I know how to get the lens off. I'd like to maybe put a thicker one in and I'd like to put an o-ring behind the glass. It has a ledge where the o-ring would rest so it's a good candidate.

It has a clicky tailcap however. I'd like to try to make this a dive light. Therefore, I need a solid tailcap which a momentary tailcap would be if screwed all the way down (hopefully).

My Uniquefire is a 18650 body. Just for fun I tried the cap from my Surefire (2 CR123's) but the threads aren't quite right and the length of the caps are much different.

I was just curious if there was a cheaper clone of the 6P that included the 6P type of tailcap. It doesn't sound like there is however.

It starts to get pretty expensive to buy a Solarforce and then take out the existing R2 pill and replace it with a Solarforce XP-G drop in and then replace the tail cap with a Surefire tailcap. Especially since after all that it still may not be a great dive light.

Clones are much better for this type of experimenting.

 

[kramer5150]

I'm guessing there are no Z41 type (cheaper) tailcap clones?
Not that I am aware of

From looking at pictures it looks like the way Solarforce bezels lock in the glass lens are similar to the way Uniquefire's L2 clone does it.
Most of them are similar. Raised shoulder inside the bezel, seat a gasket on top of that, glass lens on the O-ring, threaded ring tightens down on top of that.

I also have an older Surefire 6P (incandescent) and I can't even tell how the glass is held in.
Not sure how the older ones work. The current Z44 follows the design I describe above.

Surefires are too expensive to tear up and use to mod since if you break something in the process it's just not worth it.
I agree with that. One of the CPF modders spells Surefire like this "$urefire"... I think its either Electronguru or Moddoo. **EDIT** Its 5-Mega that does this... Sorry guys.

I have a Uniquefire L2 (XP-G) and I know how to get the lens off. I'd like to maybe put a thicker one in and I'd like to put an o-ring behind the glass. It has a ledge where the o-ring would rest so it's a good candidate.
Simple enough, once you find a lens and gasket thats the right size.


It has a clicky tailcap however. I'd like to try to make this a dive light. Therefore, I need a solid tailcap which a momentary tailcap would be if screwed all the way down (hopefully).
I am not aware of a tailcap that operates like a momentary ONLY.... certainly the Z41 does NOT.


My Uniquefire is a 18650 body. Just for fun I tried the cap from my Surefire (2 CR123's) but the threads aren't quite right and the length of the caps are much different.
Yes there can be subtle differences between all the clones. I have a Solarforce tailcap that does not thread onto my 6P... even though every one else has no problems.

I was just curious if there was a cheaper clone of the 6P that included the 6P type of tailcap. It doesn't sound like there is however.
Nope... generally nobody likes the Z41 twisty, so the cloners don't even bother with it, its not worth their time. LOL

It starts to get pretty expensive to buy a Solarforce and then take out the existing R2 pill and replace it with a Solarforce XP-G drop in and then replace the tail cap with a Surefire tailcap. Especially since after all that it still may not be a great dive light.
Yup... theres no way around that.

 

[gcbryan]

Kramer5150, a couple of more thoughts/questions...

Why is everyone so enamored with with Solarforce over other less expensive budget lights? The attack bezels are ugly and the product is more expensive than similar lights and to get XP-G you have to buy a Solarforce first and then replace the existing module with a drop in (I think). I don't see the advantage over my Uniquefire L2 XP-G R5 for instance.

Regarding a Surefire 6P. It looks like a stock 6p could handle being submerged to diving depths if turned on above the water and if the tailcap was screwed in all the way.

It wouldn't be an optimal dive light without some changes but it does look like it would work. Have you ever heard of anyone using one in such a way?

I'm also thinking it might be interesting to fit it with a hard tight fitting end cap (like a water bottle cap). This would prevent water pressure from being able to press the clicky and would be easily removable. All experimenting would be with the guts removed however and actually would probably be done with a clone rather than my actual 6P.

 

[old4570]

Solarforce L2 has more options , but the stock L2 is cheap , and good at the same time .
You can buy flat head if you dont like the more aggressive bezel .

As for drop ins , with the L2 you can just buy the body less drop in , if you want something different . @ $15USD shipped for the body

Myself , I just ordered another Lantern + head @ $15 , and a body $10 , and I have spare tailcaps and drop ins , so another light on the cheap .

Another thing about the solarforce , they make great LEGO .
If you buy a L2M [ 18650 ] + a CR123A extension , you can run CR123A / 18650 / 2xAA / making for a very versatile light combined with the low voltage pill .

A 8.4v pill allows the use of 2x18650 for really long runtime , a couple of good 2600mA capacity 18650's could see you with 5 hours or so on high [ very dependent on drop in ] or with a light that could run a month with the right drop in .

 

[Black Rose]

I think the Solarforce L2 was one of the first higher quality lower cost hosts that became available, so a lot of folks got into them.

The main advantage of the Solarforce is that the head and tailcap threads are Surefire compatible, which really opens up the lego possibilities.

You can now buy a Solarforce L2 host (no drop-in) for around $13 + shipping. I paid around $25 each for my first two Solarforce L2s.

 

[kramer5150]

Why is everyone so enamored with with Solarforce over other less expensive budget lights? The attack bezels are ugly and the product is more expensive than similar lights and to get XP-G you have to buy a Solarforce first and then replace the existing module with a drop in (I think). I don't see the advantage over my Uniquefire L2 XP-G R5 for instance.
Lighthound sells the Solar L2 for $13. They are SF compatible, so at that price theres really no reason to opt for another brand. I am not a fan of strike bezels either, they obstruct about 10% of the Lumens too. I use one on my G2 just for kicks.

Regarding a Surefire 6P. It looks like a stock 6p could handle being submerged to diving depths if turned on above the water and if the tailcap was screwed in all the way.
I have submerged mine a couple feet in the pool, but thats it. My daughter was playing with it in the pool once, but the deepest she could go was ~3 feet. I wouldn't take it diving, there are purpose built tools for that.

It wouldn't be an optimal dive light without some changes but it does look like it would work. Have you ever heard of anyone using one in such a way? Nope.

I'm also thinking it might be interesting to fit it with a hard tight fitting end cap (like a water bottle cap). This would prevent water pressure from being able to press the clicky and would be easily removable. All experimenting would be with the guts removed however and actually would probably be done with a clone rather than my actual 6P.
There are dive / pressure rated lights that out of the box are leaps/bounds better equipped at this sort of thing than any Surefire. I think you are better off investing in a Pelican, UK or similar dive rated light.

 

[gcbryan]

I'm also thinking it might be interesting to fit it with a hard tight fitting end cap (like a water bottle cap). This would prevent water pressure from being able to press the clicky and would be easily removable. All experimenting would be with the guts removed however and actually would probably be done with a clone rather than my actual 6P.
There are dive / pressure rated lights that out of the box are leaps/bounds better equipped at this sort of thing than any Surefire. I think you are better off investing in a Pelican, UK or similar dive rated light.

Those are crap (IMO for the most part). I have some of them and also do have much better dive lights already.

I do like to experiment thought and the drop in aspect of 6P's mean that you would be able to update dive lights much faster than the tradition dive light makers do.

The traditional dive light makers are equivalent to Mag lights in many cases...they work but there is better technology out there. I'm speaking of the plastic dive light makers now...UK, Pelican, Princton Tec.

There are better options but it's fun to experiment in the dive light world just as it is in the non-dive light world.

 

[kramer5150]

Those are crap (IMO for the most part). I have some of them and also do have much better dive lights already.

I do like to experiment thought and the drop in aspect of 6P's mean that you would be able to update dive lights much faster than the tradition dive light makers do.

The traditional dive light makers are equivalent to Mag lights in many cases...they work but there is better technology out there. I'm speaking of the plastic dive light makers now...UK, Pelican, Princton Tec.

There are better options but it's fun to experiment in the dive light world just as it is in the non-dive light world.

You should be aware that the Lithium metal strip in CR123 cells reacts violently when exposed to water. Releasing Hydrogen and possibly other explosive gasses. So there is an element of safety too that should not be ignored. Looking back on it, it was a really stupid thing I did giving my light to my daughter to splash around with... but I didn't know any better at the time. The 6P is heavy splash and rain resistant, but I have never seen it tested for ATM pressure while submerged.

 

[gcbryan]

You should be aware that the Lithium metal strip in CR123 cells reacts violently when exposed to water. Releasing Hydrogen and possibly other explosive gasses. So there is an element of safety too that should not be ignored. Looking back on it, it was a really stupid thing I did giving my light to my daughter to splash around with... but I didn't know any better at the time. The 6P is heavy splash and rain resistant, but I have never seen it tested for ATM pressure while submerged.

My main dive light can use Cr123's although I use 18650's so still the same potential problem probably and I have had that light flood. No problem and I'm still using those same batteries as a matter of fact.

They do seem to be protected against water better than some alkalines. I've had those leak when a light flooded. Most batteries can produce hydrogen when exposed to salt water it seems.

Some lights have a catalyst to combat this but most do not. The lens would be the weak point and would shatter before anything else happened...hopefully.

I've had a plastic light using alkalines flood and leak before and after the dive when I tried to unscrew the head to get the water out the plastic head popped up 10 feet or so in the air.

Regarding pressure testing... the housing would have no problem. The lens isn't particularly thick but it would handle 100 fsw with a decent o-ring as long as you didn't bang the glass against anything at depth. The tailcap clicky would be a problem if not screwed down so that is couldn't be pressed as pressure would press the spring letting in water more than likely by 2 or 3 atmospheres (33fsw or 66fsw).

Just as an example, I've modified a Romisen RC-K4 by removing the clicky switch and filling in the hole with epoxy thus creating a solid tailcap. I also used marine grade clear silicone sealant around the front and back edges of the front lens which was less than 2mm thick and it made it to 100 fsw with no problems.