P60 sized led drop-ins (part 2)

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orbital

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kramer5150

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Re: p60 sized led drop-in's part 2

I picked up the R2 drop in from my local post office this morning.

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.11836

I am performing run-time tests as I type. Its far too well lit here in the office to do any kind of beam comparisons. But I will take some video tonight, and I'll do my best with some beamshots too.

Overall DX ordering procedure went well. I placed the order on 3/27, the module left Hong Kong on 4/1. USPS delivered it 4/8. Not bad at all considering the world wide logistics. The DX www site was updated accurately throughout the procedure. Big cheer for dealextreme.

I am using them with ~450-500mAh RCR123 cells (You know... those highly over-rated ones). These cells have about ~20 charge/discharge cycles on them, and my charger cuts off at 4.2 volts.

On my first pair of cells, The module ran for 50 minutes before emitted light started to turn yellow. For the first 15 minutes the light ran cool to the touch. At about the 20 minute mark the bezel was warm. At 25 minutes the body of the light was warm, and the light continued to heat till the 35 minute point where temperatures leveled off for the remaining 20 minutes. The light body was hot to the touch after the full discharge cycle, much hotter than the DX 6090 which gets moderately warm by comparison. FWIW I had the light on my desk, in a poorly ventilated corner adjacent to my PC monitor pointing at the wall throughout the test. At the end of the run I noticed the batteries were considerably cooler than the body of the flashlight. No doubt the outstanding thermal properties of the brass pill and 6P were doing their job keeping heat away from the LED and RCR123s.

The second pair of cells ran for 45 minutes before emitted light turned yellow. For this test I had the flashlight in an ice water bath in a coffee mug. Clearly the added cooling didn't help extend the run time.

My conclusion is that this module should be used in a host that has good thermal cooling characteristics. You could use it in something less, but doing so might pose some risk to the cells and module over the long-term. Especially with the light ON for long durations. As alarming as it feels, the 6P body is merely doing its job, keeping its contents inside cool.

At some point I will invest in some higher capacity RCR cells, but right now I am content.

Just spent the evening at the park comparing the DX11836 with the DX6090 drop in modules. I also threw my Lowes Cree- task force into the mix, more as a control reference. It seems to be a somewhat popular light here and from what I've read spits about 110L out the front. I thumb nailed the higher-res pics, that way you guys can see some of the details of the images and shadows.

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.6090
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.11836

Host: SureFire 6P, completely OEM (no mods)
Cells: Ultrafire RCR123x2

Task Force, P4 emitter, Fraen optic
11creetffencenq7.jpg



DealExtreme, SKU6090, P4 emitter, OP reflector
22creep4fenceik3.jpg



DealExtreme, Sku11836, R2 emitter, OP reflector
33creer2fenceyc9.jpg



Task Force, P4 emitter, Fraen optic
44creetfslideis1.jpg



DealExtreme, SKU6090, P4 emitter, OP reflector
55creep4sliderl1.jpg



DealExtreme, Sku11836, R2 emitter, OP reflector
66creer2slidefw2.jpg



So... the Cree R2 is considerably brighter and whiter tint than the P4. I think if the P4 has one strength, its that it presents a very near-sunlight kind of tint, which may appeal to some. The R2 however throws out farther, although my pics don't clearly illustrate that. The flood from the R2 is also noticeably brighter.

Phwew... taking these pics was a lot harder than everyone else makes it look. I dumped about 20 images that were either blurry, off center or just plain unusable.

Hope some of you find this useful..
 
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Spypro

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Re: p60 sized led drop-in's part 2

Nice review.
I can't wait to put that thing in my G2. Since I'll use it for short burst I think it will not be dangerous for the light, LED or cells.
 

kramer5150

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Re: p60 sized led drop-in's part 2

Nice review.
I can't wait to put that thing in my G2. Since I'll use it for short burst I think it will not be dangerous for the light, LED or cells.

Yeah short bursts should be just fine. I consolidated my review & pics from a separate post I had. I think this way is more concise and informative. I have pics of a Lowes TF, if that makes the review off-topic just post and I will remove them.

thanks
 

santza

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Re: p60 sized led drop-in's part 2

Kramer, do you have possibility to check how much the p4 and r2 drop-ins pull amperage from batteries?
 

kramer5150

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Re: p60 sized led drop-in's part 2

Kramer, do you have possibility to check how much the p4 and r2 drop-ins pull amperage from batteries?

I could... If someone could show me how. I have a digital multi-meter, but I am not sure how to measure that. Shoot me a PM, rather than take this thread OT.

thanks
 

Bullzeyebill

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Re: p60 sized led drop-in's part 2

I could... If someone could show me how. I have a digital multi-meter, but I am not sure how to measure that. Shoot me a PM, rather than take this thread OT.

thanks

Set your Multimeter to the 10 or 20 DC amp scale on the dial and move your red probe from the volt jack to the 10 or 20A jack. Remove flashlight tailcap and touch black probe tip to the battery neg end, which you can see when you remove the tailcap. Put the red probe tip on the lip of the battery tube, not touching the black probe or the battery. The flashlight willl turn on, and notice measurement on your DMM. Do this carefully so as not to short out your drop in.

Bill
 

kramer5150

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Re: p60 sized led drop-in's part 2

Set your Multimeter to the 10 or 20 DC amp scale on the dial and move your red probe from the volt jack to the 10 or 20A jack. Remove flashlight tailcap and touch black probe tip to the battery neg end, which you can see when you remove the tailcap. Put the red probe tip on the lip of the battery tube, not touching the black probe or the battery. The flashlight willl turn on, and notice measurement on your DMM. Do this carefully so as not to short out your drop in.

Bill
thanks Bill...

The R2 pulls .58A and the P4 draws .54A

is that good or bad? I expected the R2 to be a lot higher than that..?
 

kramer5150

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Re: p60 sized led drop-in's part 2

Just some more pics for tonight.

Elmo, Ivy, tree at ~20 feet
DX6090 Module VVV
dsc00518eu6.jpg

DX11836 Module VVV
dsc00516gi3.jpg


Telephone poles at ~40-45 yards
DX6090 Module VVV
dsc00513bg4.jpg

DX11836 Module VVV
dsc00512aj5.jpg


Telephone pole / wall at ~30 yards
DX6090 Module VVV
dsc00509ey0.jpg

DX11836 Module VVV
dsc00508mr8.jpg
 
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Drewfus2101

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P60 Drop-In DX Sku 11836 -- Tests Done

Here is the link to this item:
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.11836

I finally got around to doing a few decent tests last night. Results were not very impressive.

dx118361do8.jpg


dx118362wz0.jpg


I also did some good lux testing with the stock bulb on SF123A batteries, DX 6090 on CR123As, and DX 11836 on CR123As.

Bulb --- Lux
Stock --- 590
6090 --- 1250
11836 --- 1420

Before you gripe, this test was done under the most strict conditions I could create. I used clamps to hold everything from moving while I changed batteries and lamps. I also used a fan on the head of the flashlight to prevent heat soak to some degree. The batteries also registered just shy of 8.0V.

That should be enough evidence to prove that this drop-in is not quite the show-stopper we all thought it would be.
 

kramer5150

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Re: P60 Drop-In DX Sku 11836 -- Tests Done

No gripes from me... the differences I found between it and the 6090 were small, but noticeable. I think its still worth its $15 price tag to anyone trying to eek out every lumen of brightness for their dollar. see my review in the sticky drop in thread. Unless you are really short on cash ($5) I don't see any reason to recommend the 6090 over the 11836.

They need to change the specs though, the emitter is under powered at 3.7V.

Thanks for doing this, your measurements back up what I am seeing out the front of mine. Nice to know that a 2-cell setup is optimal.
 
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My3kidsfather

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Re: p60 sized led drop-in's part 2

Kramer- thank you for posting the helpful pics especially now that new drop-ins are needed. It is harder than it looks to take pics I think.

I took delivery of a new inexpensive solarforce pf12 incan with two extensions. My intensions were of putting in my solarforce R2 single-mode 18v module with both extensions and four AW rcr123a's. First I tried three of my AW's. It proved very bright, as bright as my Dereelight v3.0, although not as focused for longer distances.

Then I recharged the AW's because the light started to quick-strobe :thinking: and I thought the batts were drained.. recharged them all. Installed them to find it strobing again. While i was puzzling over this, the light went very dim, barely visible and has stayed that way since. I guess that ozone smell means I fried the pill? So I guess four AW's are out of the question. lol.
 

My3kidsfather

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Re: P60 Drop-In DX Sku 11836 -- Tests Done

Drewfus thank you for the info. As yet some of us are not able to draw many conclusions from the data you have provided. Would you take a minute and compare this emitter to say the DX sku 11621, a Q5 single mode emitter? What difference would you see?

Thank you.
 

Upplyst

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Re: p60 sized led drop-in's part 2

Is it just me? I do not see any difference between P4 and R4 on those pics except for maybe colour tint.
 

Drewfus2101

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Re: P60 Drop-In DX Sku 11836 -- Tests Done

Drewfus thank you for the info. As yet some of us are not able to draw many conclusions from the data you have provided. Would you take a minute and compare this emitter to say the DX sku 11621, a Q5 single mode emitter? What difference would you see?

Thank you.

Its impossible to really compare it without seeing or running the same tests. However, from the listing, it would seem that its run by the same driver board as the 6090 and 11836. Both of these seem to be current regulated drivers right around 0.95 amps. Its safe to say that a R2 would be brighter than a Q5, which would be brighter than a P4 (which seems to be what is in the 6090) at the same drive levels. Off the top of my head I would guess the R2 is brighter than the Q5 by 10% or so, or at least if all other things are equal it should be.
 

kramer5150

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Re: p60 sized led drop-in's part 2

Is it just me? I do not see any difference between P4 and R4 on those pics except for maybe colour tint.

There is a slight difference in Lux, but not much... See the review Drewfus did here...

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/194742

Its most visible at medium ranges ~20-30 yards. You can see it in the last set of photos. Color tint seems to be about even, maybe the 6090 is a little more yellow but its not a night and day difference. I was hoping the Elmo/Ivy/tree pics would show the color difference more, but it doesn't.

Note also that my camera is not the greatest. The differences between the two are slightly more apparent in-person. I just wish I had an SLR capable of capturing the differences.
 

My3kidsfather

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Re: P60 Drop-In DX Sku 11836 -- Tests Done

Its impossible to really compare it without seeing or running the same tests. However, from the listing, it would seem that its run by the same driver board as the 6090 and 11836. Both of these seem to be current regulated drivers right around 0.95 amps. Its safe to say that a R2 would be brighter than a Q5, which would be brighter than a P4 (which seems to be what is in the 6090) at the same drive levels. Off the top of my head I would guess the R2 is brighter than the Q5 by 10% or so, or at least if all other things are equal it should be.

thanks! I am beginning to think the drivers are more important. One fellow is driving his Q5's at 1.8-2.0 amps and getting great light. Heat sinking and drivers. Got to learn more.
 

Bullzeyebill

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Re: p60 sized led drop-in's part 2

thanks Bill...

The R2 pulls .58A and the P4 draws .54A

is that good or bad? I expected the R2 to be a lot higher than that..?

If you were running two CR123's the amp draw would probably be .80A. You Led is probably seeing about 1 amp, or very close to that. The more volts you add to system, the lower the draw from the batteries= buck regulation. The closer the vin is to vf the more effecient the converter works. Adding voltage reduces effeciency, but does dramatically improve runtime.

Bill
 

leon2245

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Re: p60 sized led drop-in's part 2

So not many of you are just using the surefire kit to upgrade your 6p's to LED huh? I notice these aftermarket options are brighter and cheaper vs the p60L from surefire, so the advantage is obvious- but which one listed in the OP would be closest to stock? One without the possibility of having to fiddle with, springs or rubber rings if the head doesn't screw down all the way, or soldering something to keep from shorting, etc (some "easy" but necessary fixes I've read about here with some of these).

Maybe a novice is better suited with just buying the SF p60l upgrade, but if one of these was just as good as the factory upgrade, and cheaper, AND brighter- why not?
 
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