Philips, Osram, Hella, etc ECE DRLs for Canada

[mikecz]

Hi,

Are ECE-only (not ECE/SAE) add-on LED DRLs legal in Canada?
Is it easy to disable reduced-intensity high beam DRLs in Canadian cars?
I was thinking of installing one of the DRL kits easily found in Europe, to save the high beam filaments of some more expensive bulbs, reduce power consumption, and maybe even improve my ability to be seen, and reduce glare for others.

Some examples of these kits,
https://download.p4c.philips.com/files/1/12831accx1/12831accx1_pss_.pdf
https://download.p4c.philips.com/files/1/12831wledx1/12831wledx1_pss_.pdf
https://www.osram.co.uk/ecat/LEDriv...g-Automotive/gb/en/GPS01_1062701/ZMP_1166035/
(these are said to be ECE/SAE, however, under 'Standards' there is only 'ECE R87'. Also slightly more expensive than the Philips kits)
https://www.hella.com/daytimerunnin...ief_Info_LED_TFL_LEDayLine_Zero__HELLA_EN.pdf
(these seem to be much more expensive than any of the above)

Are they all comparable in quality? Are there any others which might be better? Which would be best?

Thanks

 

[-Virgil-]

Practically speaking, yes, ECE DRLs are legal in Canada. I say "practically speaking" because although there is no explicit statement in Canada Motor Vehicle Safety Standard 108 (lamps and reflective devices) saying "DRLs compliant with ECE Regulation 87 are allowed", but CMVSS108's subreferenced technical standard, SAE J2087, is very nearly identical to the ECE Regulation 87 requirements. The only significant difference is that the SAE requirement permits dedicated DRLs to produce up to 3000 candela at the center of the beam, while ECE Reg 87 only allows up to 1200 candela. This means some SAE DRLs are too bright to meet the lower ECE limit, but all ECE DRLs fit under the higher SAE limit. Depending on which dated version of the SAE standard is being looked at, there can also be a trivial minimum intensity difference (500 SAE versus 400 ECE) but last time I looked the SAE standard was adjusted to allow 400 minimum, and very few of the quality ECE DRLs scrape the bottom of the spec like this; usually they're closer to the middle of the spec in the 600 to 900 candela range.

Any of these Philips, Osram, or Hella DRL setups would be fine. They're all comparable in quality.

Is it easy to disable reduced-intensity high beam DRLs in Canadian cars?

That depends on what kind of car it is that you're working on. Some are easy, some are harder. High beam DRLs are legal in Canada/USA, but the dedicated white LED DRLs you're looking at are much better in terms of doing the actual job of preventing crashes. The other option, if you're trying to cut down on prolonged use of expensive headlight bulbs and to improve the DRL function, is to disable the high beam DRLs and install a module like this to put the DRL function on the front turn signals. This works well on many vehicles, but not all of them, depending on front turn signal design.

 

[mikecz]

It would be on a 2008 and 2010 Toyota Prius, the latter with the LED low beam headlamp option from the factory.
I am considering changing the front bulbs to Tungsram +120 (H4 hi/lo, HB3 fog, on the 2008; HB3 high, H11 fog, on the 2010). Would any of those be a bad idea, even in stock DRL configuration?
Any other bulbs you would suggest instead?
To be honest, I don't quite like turn signal DRLs, nor do I fancy American style red rear turn signals, but that's just a personal peeve I guess; I like turn signals to light up, not turn off, as the first indication of them being 'on'.

Thanks for your help.

 

[-Virgil-]

Well, the path of lowest resistance on the '10 would be to put in a set of the factory turn signal units with the built-in white LED DRLs. They are Toyota part no. 81511-47050 and 81521-47050. As usual, the OEM Toyota parts are better/higher quality than aftermarket. Disabling the high beam DRLs, I think on that car involves settings/configs in the vehicle's computer. Good luck finding a dealer willing to do it, though I have heard/seen accounts of people first installing the new DRLs, then taking the car to a dealer service department and demonstrating that the car has separate DRLs and THEN getting cooperation from the service techs.

On the '08 you'd still want to pick one of those Hella/Osram/Philips setups for that car, because there's no factory DRL unit.

The Tungsram +120 H4 bulbs are the top pick for the '08. The fog lamps in that car take an HB4 (9006), not an HB3 (9005). HB3 is not an appropriate or safe choice. Stern's got selective yellow high luminance 9006 and H11 bulbs ideal for fog lamps, and the good Toshiba HIR1s to upgrade the '10 high beams.

 

[mikecz]

Sorry, that was a mistake/typo. I have the HB4 as the fog for the '08 as well.
Thanks a lot for the part numbers for the OE LED DRLs for the 2010! I will look into that as the ultimate solution, but don't currently have the time.
If I were to keep things stock for now, are the Tungsram 120+ bulbs a bad choice? I have the chance of getting some bulbs quite inexpensively in the EU. Unfortunately, I don't have much time left to decide what to get, and don't want to jump into the more extensive and expensive changes in such a rush. Getting anything from the United States to Canada is a sore, but I might consider it in the future; maybe a shopping trip.
Also available here in the EU are Osram Original 9011 bulbs. I don't want to blind anyone, or run afoul of the law, and they are 4x the price of the Tungsram +120 HB3s, so that's why I was considering the Tungsrams for now (and for the other lamps, to make it simple). Would they be a bad choice anywhere on the front of the cars, and especially in their role as low voltage high beam DRLs? Would they be too bright for fog lamp duty?
I'm also planning on sanding/polishing the lenses, and covering them with a hard/clear coat (e.g. from 3M, Sylvania, soft99; I don't know what they're technically composed of unfortunately).
I will have a look around for some selective yellow brand name bulbs here before I leave.
I don't quite like modifying cars, even if to add separate DRLs, and am on the fence about that somewhat. Also, if I were to sell the cars someday, I'm not sure how potential buyers would look on them.
Thanks for the help so far, and any further comments are most welcome!

 

[mikecz]

I think the lamp parts you referred to would not work in a 2010 bumper, only a 2012+ one.
2010: https://www.netcarshow.com/Toyota-Prius-2010-800-47.jpg
2012: https://www.netcarshow.com/Toyota-Prius-2012-800-0d.jpg

 

[-Virgil-]

I don't quite like modifying cars, even if to add separate DRLs

So...then...what was the point of starting this thread in the first place?

(Yes, looks like you're right about the bumper. NO, 9011 bulbs are not appropriate in fog lamps!)

 

[mikecz]

It's partly in the topic, and just because I don't like doing something, doesn't mean I won't, especially if it makes sense.

Anyway, it seems like there were quite a few DRL kits from the main brands over the years, but some are no longer available.
Just from Philips, there were Daylight 4, Daylight 8, Daylight Guide, and Daylight 9, and maybe I haven't found them all. There were also two color temperatures for some. The most recent models it seems were the Daylight Guide and the Daylight 9.
I think Osram also had replacement fog lamps (with brackets for various car models), that gave you both a DRL and a fog light in the space of the OE fog lamps. I couldn't find these available for sale anywhere I looked though. I found some other ECE lamps with the same idea, but from unknown-to-me brands, and for quite a hefty price too.
I'm guessing these kits were more popular about a decade ago, when DRLs were made a requirement in the EU.

I'm getting a bit confused by all of the bulb types. So here we go again,

2010 Prius
LO: OE LED
HI: HB3 (9005)
Fog: H11

2008 Prius
LO/HI: H4 (HB2, 9003)
Fog: HB4 (9006)

The '08 LO/HI is actually listed in the car's manual as HB2 (the car is Canadian). I'm hoping the ECE equivalents are ok for these, as for any others above. Is that true?
These are both Canadian cars, with low-voltage high-beam DRLs from the factory (using modules?).

Now, I was considering,
1) changing the bulbs for the beams listed above with Tungsram +120 bulbs, and possibly,
2) disabling OE DRL systems, and using e.g. Philips Daylight 9 DRLs

If I was to do only the thing in 1), is it going to cause problems for other drivers (e.g. higher intensity DRLs, glare, etc), and/or run me afoul of the law in Canada?

If I was to do the things in both 1) and 2), how would I go about disabling the OE DRLs, in both cars? The '10 did not have an option for dedicated DRLs in North America I don't think, so I find it improbable (but you never know, I think Japan might have had an option for them), for the computer to have a way to disable them by 'coding', or some such procedure.


The 9011 bulb was a consideration for the replacement of the '10 high beam (HB3). My concern was added glare to other traffic if using the OE DRL system. Would this really be a problem? If so, does this make the 9011 unsuitable for the '10 HB3 high beam, using the OE DRL system?
If I were to change to e.g. Philips Daylight 9 DRLs, would there be no concerns in using the 9011 for the '10 HB3 high beams?

I hope I was a bit clearer that time.

I looked around, and the only reputable brand selective yellows I could find were Osram Fog Breakers. Interestingly, they were off-road, etc., but not sure if that was always the case (found some box images that didn't have that I think). Did ECE rules for selective yellow change? Are they now legal at all anymore? And also, seemed to be totally unavailable from my usual sources. I was hoping the Tungsrams would be ok, but worried about the colour temperature a bit.

Also, any tips for lens protection (short of replacing the lamp units) would be appreciated. I was considering a hard coat, and possibly paint protecting film. I read in another, slightly old, thread, that it can reduce light .. quality? intensity? Is this still true, or have films gotten better, is it even significant? Is it then not advised to use this film to protect the lenses from repetitive damage due to environment (UV, sand, etc?). I could live with having to redo the coat every year or half, if it meant better light.

Sorry for the lengthy post, I hope you don't mind.

 

[-Virgil-]

It's partly in the topic, and just because I don't like doing something, doesn't mean I won't, especially if it makes sense.

Well, the high-beam DRLs aren't optimal DRLs, but as implemented by Toyota they're relatively un-problematic, so I think if I were you I'd just leave them alone. They still won't produce troublesome levels of glare even with the upgraded headlight bulbs.

The '08 LO/HI is actually listed in the car's manual as HB2 (the car is Canadian). I'm hoping the ECE equivalents are ok

Yes, H4 is fine, both technically and legally.

low-voltage high-beam DRLs from the factory (using modules?)

Probably no separate discrete module; probably built into one or another of the car's ECMs.

how would I go about disabling the OE DRLs, in both cars?

You will have to do some homework! It might be easy, might be hard, might be practically impossible (without causing problems).

The '10 did not have an option for dedicated DRLs in North America I don't think, so I find it improbable (but you never know, I think Japan might have had an option for them)

That won't be the case. Japan resisted DRLs for many years.

I looked around, and the only reputable brand selective yellows I could find were Osram Fog Breakers.

These are poor-quality bulbs out of China. As far as I know, the only really good ones come from Stern.

Also, any tips for lens protection (short of replacing the lamp units) would be appreciated.

If your lamps are deteriorated to the point of needing replacement, then there is nothing short of replacement that will get the job done.

Otherwise, this.

 

[mikecz]

Thank you very much!

It's hard for me to find Tungsram +120 HB3s, and actually any +% HB3s that are not quite tinted. Which bulb would you suggest from the standard/'original' lines?
I can easily find Narva (€1.83), Osram (€3.55), Philips (+30, €4.39) Tungsram (€2.08) HB3s.
None of those break the bank, but if it's not worth paying more for e.g. the Philips, then I'd rather not.

The '08 is settled on Tungsram +120, but given the availability and prices of bulbs for the '10, I'm considering Narva or Tungsram 'original' for HB3 HI, and Osram 'original' (€5.18) or NBS (€8.78) for H11 fog.
I aready asked which HB3 from the standard/'original' lines would be best, but what about H11s? Are the NBS worth the price difference over the 'original', especially since they would be for fogs? There are quite a bit of snow storms where we drive in Canada, 'white-out'/blowing snow is not rare. I thought of getting white bulbs for now for the fogs, and either tinting the lenses (duplicolor? film?) or replacing the bulbs with yellow ones in the future sometime.

Would you say that all bulbs made in China, even good brand ones, are not worth considering?

 

[mikecz]

I found the +120s for the '10, but started to wonder, are such high +% bulbs really a good thing for fog lamp use?

I'd still also be curious to know how the standard/'original' line bulbs compare between the brands.

 

[Alaric Darconville]

The +% bulbs provide better focus; better focus is always better for any lamp. It eases aiming and it provides better control of stray light.
Also, the +% bulbs might have a shorter life than regular bulbs, but they have better lumen maintenance throughout their lifetime, meaning that if the bulb is lighting up it's performing well (long life bulbs will continue to light long after they've stopped providing useful light and any semblance of focus).

 

[-Virgil-]

It's hard for me to find Tungsram +120 HB3s, and actually any +% HB3s that are not quite tinted. Which bulb would you suggest from the standard/'original' lines?

Again: Toshiba HIR1 (9011), or (next below that) Osram HIR1 (9011).

As far as the yellow fog lamps, you've already received the how-to advice on that...twice. I don't think saying it a third time is going to help.

Would you say that all bulbs made in China, even good brand ones, are not worth considering?

No, I would not say that.