Photon 3 reliability ?

[this_is_nascar]

I've never had anything but BAD luck with Photon III's. I have a bunch of them here that I can't/won't even use.

Take the ARC-AAA with you hiking. You don't have to wear it around your neck. Put it in your pocket or sock. You'll never notice it's there.

 

[ChrisA]

well well, seems like it's more or less a matter of luck wether your photon works well or does the eat-the-battery-trick... i will take my trusty arc le with me, and some spare batts. it's the tiny size- lightweight-, long runtime-package that lead me to the photon but if it's as faulty as some of you say i will pass this one. thanks for the info !

chris

 

[ChrisA]

hi rené. i would not choose the freelight because there is no constant on feature and the clip-solution will surely get lost after a few hours/days dangling around my neck... the runtime is also pretty short. but aside from that i used it around the house after dark before my gf kept it

chris

 

[arab]

hotfoot said

If anyone has the inside track on this, has LRI indeed come out yet to at least admit this problem with the new P3s?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you take a look atthe Photon website, there is lots of detail here. I don't have an inside track, but LRI are quite open about the P3 problems - they are also perfectly willing to replace any faulty lights. I suppose the Revision 3 Photon 3 (with the new - Fusion - chip) should be more reliable, but this is only speculation. In any case, this is currently only available with a UV LED. Bryan Avery from LRI said this to me ragarding Rev 3 availability on the 18th July: "The last I heard, it may be another month or two before all
colors are available with the new chip." At the end of the day, a faulty product is a faulty product. I have no idea if the % failure rate of the P3 is > than the AAA. If either fails when you are in remote territory you are in trouble - the P3's batteries will be dead and the light therefore unusable and the ARC equally so - unless you remembered to pack a hammer and some screwdrivers to "reearth" the roll crimp that is!

I think ChrisA's suggestion above is good - buy the lights and try them out first. As far as I know, both weaknesses should be apparent early in the life of either light.

A few final comments:

Saaby: Is that an ARC hanging off the front of your pyjamas or are you just pleased to see me

remuen: I've read ChrisA's comments about the freelight with the clip option. I agree with these and might also add this word of caution - my clip idea resulted in a cracked solar panel. Still works, but I think I might try some less intrusive solution next time !

General: The P3 is water resistant but not waterproof like the AAA and Freelight. Operating it underwater will cause the button to suck in moisture, however everyday use - even low depth underwater use without button operation - is fine.

 

[hotfoot]

True enough, Alan - the forum *does* have threads regarding this drain problem due to quote:faulty electronics:unquote and Bryan Avery is responsive with offers to replace faulty ones for free as warranteed. You'll have to dig a little to find those threads (as you would in the CPF), but its there.

OK, I'm gonna bite the bullet and mail my P3 to them with an SASE to see if my P3 really does get replaced and returned to me here in Singapore. I'm certain that LRI customer service is on the ball, given the happy campers who've already got theirs fixed. Hopefully they'll restore my faith and I can rid myself of this (faulty) chip on my shoulder that I currently have with the P3s...

 

[MarcV]

My only P3 failed the first day, also. I concluded that it was just junk, but now you guys have convinced me to ask for an exchange as well.

As for hiking or camping, I'd opt for the Photon II. Mine have all been reliable. The Inova II is nearly as lightweight and has also been reliable for me.

 

[caver]

I have been using a P3 for over a year while caving. I have had very good luck. It's been swimming, crawled on, lost in a cave for a month, caked in mud, stepped on, and generally given the full on caving experience. It's holding up great. I would have no hesitation cliff diving with it or anything else.

Good luck.

 

[arab]

Anyone planning to return a faulty P3 to LRI would be advised to email them first. It probably gives you an edge over a returned, unannounced product.

In one case before I returned a P3 for the 2nd time, I emailed LRI telling them how unhappy I was. The result was that I didn't need to return my old defective P3 - a new one arrived with replacement batteries to cover the ones I'd used up. I used my old P3 as a P1 - instant on only!

I returned the P3s having first removed the batteries (which were dead anyway) and the keyring. This minimised on postage costs.

 

[chanik]

I don't think the metastability problem exists in the new P3s (new ones have SOS and shorter button times). The new ones use a completely different chip than the older style anyway. If anyone has a new one that eats batteries, please send it in so we can verify it.

 

[MarcV]

Originally posted by arab:
I didn't need to return my old defective P3 This minimised on postage costs.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">By this time they should know they have a problem, if the CPF comments are an indication. I did lookup the forum on their site, though, and the 24 hour death problem didn't seem to be discussed there. There was no recall noted either. Maybe I didn't look far enough. The site really brags about how wonderful the P3 is. That kind of turns me off. It's much easier to deal with honest vendors or manufacturers who confess their mistakes.

So who is right here? Are these the most wonderful things since sliced bread? Or is the reliability so poor that we cannot recommend them to a hiker/camper?

I have lots of flashlights and only two have failed me: this Photon III and the Legend LX. Neither lasted 'til the second day. The other hundred, or so, live on with only an occasional battery change.

 

[arab]

Originally posted by chanik:
I don't think the metastability problem exists in the new P3s (new ones have SOS and shorter button times). The new ones use a completely different chip than the older style anyway. If anyone has a new one that eats batteries, please send it in so we can verify it.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hi Chanik - am I correct in assuming you work for LRI/Photon? If so, can you give us a clear message regarding availability of the new - Fusion logic - chip in the various P3 colours (I know it's already available in UV)

 

[chanik]

Yes, I do all their electronics design now, though not for the old style P3. The new P3 is available in all colors, but some distributers still may have inventory of the older style. If you order direct from LRI, you will get the new style definitely. There is a small percentage of old style P3s that kill their batteries and if you have one, it will be exchanged for a new P3. The problem is not known to exist in the new style.

 

[r2]

I have two P3s, a white and a Turquoise. I've sent the turq back twice and received replacements, but I still have a defective one. With the second replacement, I tested it (looked fine) and put it on my shelf. Recently I tried using it and the batteries were completely dead. The white P3 sitting next to it was fine. If there is a new circuit, maybe it's time for me to send it in again.

The white had a defective switch (sometimes the switch just didn't work--no problem with running batteries down when off) but LRI sent me a replacement which seems to be fine.

As a result of the reliability problems and problems with the P3 turning on in my pocket, I switch to an Arc AAA as my keychain light months ago. I haven't had any problems with the Arc and don't intend to switch back. I was also disappointed with the runtime of the P3 after reading the hype on the website. It dims pretty quickly so I really prefer the Arc AAA.

- Russ

 

[arab]

Originally posted by chanik:
Yes, I do all their electronics design now, though not for the old style P3. The new P3 is available in all colors, but some distributers still may have inventory of the older style. If you order direct from LRI, you will get the new style definitely. There is a small percentage of old style P3s that kill their batteries and if you have one, it will be exchanged for a new P3. The problem is not known to exist in the new style.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks for that update Chanik. From the number of failures I have experienced and read about both on LRI's website and on these pages, I'd say you arrived in the nick of time! The logic is much improved too.

 

[MarcV]

Encouraged by this thread, I mailed my 24 hours to death Photon III to L.R.I. Today the mail brought a new one (? maybe, had the tab removed) along with a nice bonus, a pair of fresh batteries.

That's nice customer service, with the clever mail order strategem of including something valuable the customer didn't expect.

My hat's off to L.R.I. and to the CPF members who urged me to do this. Thanks to all.

 

[The_LED_Museum]

I've heard a lot about these metastable failures in P3s, but I have yet to have any of mine eat batteries like that. I have been told it only happens to a relatively small number out of the total number of units made, so I guess I just got lucky. And yes, I've tried using them for a few days, then setting them on a shelf to be ignored (intentionally) for a month or more, and when I've come back, they've always worked fine and showed no decrease in remaining battery capacity.

I have posted to my website that these failures have been occurring (just so the buyer can beware), BUT also posted information that they are being worked on. Most recently, I did state that the next generation of Photon 3 would be using a new chip. Not just a reworking of an existing chip, but an entirely new one altogether. The violet Photon 3 was first to receive this new gift of life, and my sample still works fine. A few days ago, I also got a sample of the white P3 using the new IC. So we'll see what happens. But I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I think the battery-eating problem has been eliminated. As long as you don't receive old stock from a dealer anyway.

To see if your P3 is a new chip version, pop it open, dump out the batteries, and look for "2002" engraved under "L.R.I." in the center of the PCB. That *should* indicate the unit uses the new microcontroller, and not any variation of the original. Also, the mode progression should go: Auto-off, high, medium, low, fast blink, slow blink, SOS; and the mode dwell time should be a hair under 2 seconds - though I think the dwell time fix and the SOS substitution may have occurred with a very late permutation of the old chip. So check the PCB for "2002" anyway, just to be certain.

 

[MarcV]

This one direct from L.R.I. does not meet your criteria for "new" status. The mode sequence is bright, medium, dim, fast strobe, medium strobe, slow strobe, and auto-off (begins and ends with brief strobe effect).

But that's fair enough, the defective one I sent back probably didn't have the new chip; otherwise it wouldn't have failed.

I tried sending S-O-S manually but the finger pressure required for that would make the message brief indeed. That's a good thing because it means accidental pocket energizing is unlikely. If I need to send an SOS, I'll just have to tap it out by banging this thing on a wall somewhere. OTOH, shouting help might be wiser. I wonder how many passersby recognize Morse anyway?

 

[The_LED_Museum]

Originally posted by MarcV:
This one direct from L.R.I. does not meet your criteria for "new" status. The mode sequence is bright, medium, dim, fast strobe, medium strobe, slow strobe, and auto-off (begins and ends with brief strobe effect).

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's a really old one. They replaced the strobe at each end of the auto-off mode with a ramp up and ramp down quite some time ago.

 

[MarcV]

Do they all have the copper band across one side of the batteries? When you said "pop it open, dump out the batteries,", I thought "Good grief. That sounds much easier than it really is." There'll be no dumping and, lacking instructions, it took some time to recognize what that band is and whether it comes out with the batteries or the batteries are somehow permanent in there, or what...

A knife blade did lift the opposing side of the batteries sufficiently that one could be forced out from under the band. The other followed easily.

Anyway, "dumping" doesn't work with this model.

 

[Wolfen]

LRI is still shipping the old photon 3's when you ask for a replacement. Last week I got the old model as a replacement for the dud I sent back.

I just sent back another P3 white yesterday so I don't know what kind I'll get back.