Possible to upgrade these lights?

[fongalv]

Hi guys,

Kinda new here so please pardon me if there is any wrong use of terms or technicalities.

I have a BOSSK AL 1X5W LED which I have been using as a simple focus light for my compact camera. While it was rated at 5W 170 lumens, I was wondering if there is any possibility of modding it to increase its power either via a change of LED+driver or even batteries?

The main features I am after is a brighter torch, and a nice wide spread of white light since it is to be used as a camera focus light and not a spotter light.

The current setup uses 4X AAA batteries and the entire torch is machined out of aluminium so I guess heat shouldn't be too big a problem. I do have access to a workshop so I can mod it quite extensively if necessary.

I have stripped the torch assembly and here are some photos of it.

P.S. I also have a good ol' UK Q40 which I read somewhere here can be upgraded with a direct LED drop in from DX? Can anyone enlighten me on the part number?

Thanks for reading and any advice would be appreciated!

 

[fongalv]

hmm...no comments from anyone?

I have been looking around and say I could somehow fit this into the torch and solder it into the switch PCB: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.36029 , given that it runs at 2.8A, would 4X100mAh NIMH give me 1.4hrs of burn time?

Is there something that I am missing?

 

[gcbryan]

I don't know what size exactly your light is but the SST-50 is designed as a drop-in for a P60 host. Your light isn't a drop-in design but maybe you could work around that however the max voltage for that driver circuit (SST-50 you've pointed to) is 4.2 V.

I suppose you could leave out one of your batteries but running a SST-50 on 3 AAA isn't going to be bright.

I think the reason you haven't gotten a lot of comments may be the lights that you have to mod.

One of them is bright already and according to the comments at DX isn't designed well for heat dissipation but upgrading it is likely to make things worse.

The UK is a plastic light that may not draw much interest here and even though you have some good pictures I don't think many people know much about the Bossk and Big Blue doesn't seem to have made any serious inroads into the dive light world.

I think you will just be putting good money after bad with the upgrades but I could be wrong.

If you have the right tools you can simply replace the emitter itself and possibly put in another driver to upgrade most any light.

 

[SmokedCPU]

Hi

In my case, first time i see inside of this light. you have acces to a lathe, you can put a spring on bottom of light after and boring the inner races that hold AAA cells, to insert some CR123, or two 18650 Li-ion cells

my first mod was a simple «trash 3aaa holder insert 18650cell, remove little resistor & direct drive a strange generic 3w led»

if you check the specs well, you may be able to find a little driver to fit in the head. Also, heat dissipation may be hard to manage, and have in mind, that more a led is hot, less light it output.

if you get battery voltage too high the little resistor will not keep it up with power.
its a way of wasting runtime.

Is power on-off is twisty ? In the head ?

your light seem different from the one advertised on you link: is your pushing also 170Lm??

Led option will depend of the color you need for camera, battery power you can bring in, heat dissipation, and wished runtime.

 

[jarvist]

Currently the '1R8' is the 1.8 ohm surface mount resistor which is limiting the current to the LED (i.e. resistor driven, no 'driver').
Calling it a '5W' LED when driven off AAA cells is ludicrous - you can't get 1.5A out of an AAA alkaline!
However, have you tried higher quality batteries in your light?
Have you used a ammeter to measure the current draw, to see what you're actually getting?

The first / easiest thing, if you don't care about emitter lifetime, is to either change the SMD resistor for a lower resistance, or simply short it out & run the LED direct drive off the AAAs.

Q40: As far as I'm aware, there is no simple Q40 drop in. It's a great gap in the market
There's very little engineering space to play with - the UK LED replacement bulbs are all little works of art, with perfectly moulded acrylic pieces holding the electrics behind the LED in the 'battery shaft', and a batwing side-emitting LED bouncing light onto a low-profile reflector.

However, if you're after a challenge, you could perhaps start with a XRE mounted on a 14mm board, then think of squeezing a small optic on top of it, and building some kind of 7135 driver below. You could probably reuse the bottom of the Xenon bulb holder for a base + connection to +ve, and machine a brass sleeve to pick up the -ve from the tab.

 

[fongalv]

Hi guys, thanks for the many replies here.

jarvist: What do you mean by higher quality batteries? The bossk is currently running on 4X maha powerex 1000mAh AAAs while the Q40 on the same maha 2700mAh AAs.

Apart from the Q40 which I guess is about high time for retirement/backup, I will still need 2 main lights, one for the camera and one for night diving, therefore decided to purchase one more flashlight to use together with the bossk one.

Following member hanachan's method, Ive ordered a MTE SSC P7 2 mode flashlight from DX and am already half way finished with the DIY waterproofing(done with the rear clicky to toggle switch). I went ahead with a full disassembly and added some artic silver leftovers from my cpu between the pill and the heatsink. I now find that the flashlight body heats up quite considerably after 5 mins of use and I suppose this is a good thing(better heat sinking)?

I will post an image comparing the ~400lumens(rated 900) SSC P7 with the bossk later today when I get all batteries fully charged up. On first look, I've found the P7(on an ultrafire 3000mAh 18650) while floody, still has a considerable hot spot that is quite visible in photos, and while this can be reduced with a simple piece of diffuser, also cuts light output. I found the beam from the bossk to be alot more even. It is basically one circle of even light. Removing the diffuser of the MTE actually helps to create a very even circle but im concerned about the removing the aluminium reflector which currently serves as another additional heatsink...

Once again, thanks for the many replies, have really read and learnt alot from the posts in this forum!

 

[gcbryan]

Be sure to post a picture of the flashlight itself after your waterproofing as well as any beamshots.

Thanks. So, when is your first dive with this light?

 

[fongalv]

First dive will be next weekend, until then will try to soak it in the tub/pool without batteries before it hits the salt water.

The main issue regarding the waterproofing of this light is the clicky switch at the end and I'm personally not very comfortable with the way the toggle switch was done by hanachan, I just dug out the previous clump of silicone and trying to implement some sort of finger glove over the entire switch or something, probably with plumbing tape and silicone.

Here is the rig now with a DIY torch holder, together with some spare acrylic discs I cut for sealling the rear switch, and also the square diffuser(3mm uniformly frosted and sanded on both sides:

I also did some quick beamshots of a wall about 3m away in a totally dark environment, all taken at 1/8s, F2.0, ISO80, gorrilapod mounted.

Bossk "rated" 5W, 170 lumens

MTE SSC P7 "LO mode"

MTE SSC P7 "HI mode"

MTE SSC P7 "HI mode" without reflector

Bossk with diffuser "rated" 5W, 170 lumens

MTE SSC P7 "LO mode" with diffuser

MTE SSC P7 "HI mode" with diffuser


From the above comparisons, I can conclude that having a diffuser is definitely the way to go, tho at closer distances(1-2m), the hot spot even with diffuser becomes quite apparent. Right now I'm thinking of doing some sort of quick flip diffuser so I can get quick changes between more flood or more throw.

 

[gcbryan]

In my opinion you don't need to go to all that tape, gloves, etc.

I've modified several lights and have taken them to 100 feet or so with no problems.

If you don't need the toggle switch you can just take it out and convert the light to a twisting tail cap type of switch. Just use epoxy to cover the hole where the switch was.

As far as sealing the front lens all you need is a little marine grade clear silicone around the front and back of the lens.

If you don't mind if the light is on the entire time you are underwater you can also just replace the existing "reverse" clicky switch with a "forward" clicky switch and then use the marine grade silicone sealant around that from the outside.

Water pressure will turn the switch on rather than off.

 

[fongalv]

In my opinion you don't need to go to all that tape, gloves, etc.

I've modified several lights and have taken them to 100 feet or so with no problems.

If you don't need the toggle switch you can just take it out and convert the light to a twisting tail cap type of switch. Just use epoxy to cover the hole where the switch was.

As far as sealing the front lens all you need is a little marine grade clear silicone around the front and back of the lens.

If you don't mind if the light is on the entire time you are underwater you can also just replace the existing "reverse" clicky switch with a "forward" clicky switch and then use the marine grade silicone sealant around that from the outside.

Water pressure will turn the switch on rather than off.

I would love to convert it to twisty, but I don't know of any simple method to do that...do you have any links/guides?

The front of the lens I have replaced with thicker(2mm) glass because the original one felt really thin...I have sealed both the front and back of the glass with silicone, but was contemplating adding another layer of glass in front of the bezel, would that even be necessary?(the glass shop I went to gave me 3 similar pieces for like 3 bucks).

After the silicone dried, I put the front bezel back and fount the reflector had a tendency to get quite "stuck" to the silicone, so I ended up gluing the reflector straight to the front glass so as to have more silicone on the rear side of the glass.

I haven't really done a runtime test because it runs kinda hot and have not sealed it properly to test in a sink yet, but from other user experiences around here, I'm not expecting it to run >2hrs so I don't think I would want it to be always on.

Thanks for the advice, tbh, I like the toggle switch because it gives the 2 modes, but waterproofing it is kinda pita...

 

[gcbryan]

If you have two pieces of glass in the front you have plenty. As long as everything is screwed tightly and sealed it's not likely to leak. With two pieces of glass the glass isn't going to break in the recreational diving range.

Regarding the tailcap. All you have to do it just remove the existing switch and seal the hole with two part epoxy.

Inside the tail cap all you need is the retaining ring and the board with the spring on it. You just adjust it so that it is on all the time when you have it screwed on the way on.

When you want to turn it off just unscrew the tail cap enough to break the connection. I assume there is already an o-ring there.

I did this was was able to unscrew it enough to turn it off at 100 feet and it didn't leak.

In my opinion, the best way to design these lights is to get some test data for yourself. That's the way I did it.

In other words, try to seal the tail and head of the light with the least amount of material and then test it on a dive without the led, reflector, or batteries.

If it leaks...no problem. Figure out why it leaked and fix that and then try again. When it doesn't leak then put the other components back it.

When you do it that way you see that if you seal the flashlight with some thought it's not hard to make it waterproof.

That way you got end up throwing the kitchen sink at it so to speak. Meaning that you don't need to start out with tons of tape, and sealent and rubber gloves and acrylic covers to the point where you have a bulky light.

Find out exactly what makes it leak and then just fix that. That's my opinion anyway.

In any event, have fun. Building it is half of the fun!

 

[fongalv]

That would mean converting it to a twisty will only work in one mode right? I think I would much prefer the 2 modes, so do you know of any other way to achieve this apart from the toggle switch? I'm still exploring options now.

The current tail cap actually has 2 O rings that DX lubed quite heavily. I think this should be enough for recreational dives right? Both the Q40 and Bossk only had a single O-ring, but I think I will bring along a small roll of duct tape just to be safe.

As for the front bezel, I am actually intending to put one piece of glass inside the light, and the other piece on the outside of the bezel(outside the light itself) because if I stacked both on the inside of the bezel, it becomes too thick and wouldn't screw all the way into the main body.

I just tried running it continuously for ~5 mins and I must say, the aluminium body heats up very considerably, almost to uncomfortable levels when held in hand...should this be a course of concern? Could using the 3.7V 3000mAh Ultrafire 18650 cause this? I know it will probably not overheat underwater but this was meant as a topside light isn't it...

 

[gcbryan]

The fact that the body of the light heats up isn't necessarily a bad thing. It means that the heat sink is doing it's job of transferring heat away from the led to the body of the flashlight.

When it's in the water the water will act as a giant heatsink as long as the heat is being transferred from the led to the body.

I've taken a converted flashlight down to 100 feet with only a 1 1/2 mil piece of glass. I would prefer 3 mil for that depth but it's not likely to break unless you hit it.

Twisting the tailcap should do the same thing as your toggle switch. If the driver you are using has two modes then twisting and untwisting will change modes just like the toggle switch will.

You can test this out on land. If you have a flashlight with a clicky switch just click it on. Now untwist the tailcap until the light goes off and twist it on again immediately...it should change modes.

Anything that needs duct tape isn't going to be helped by duct tape. It either is waterproof or it's not. If you need to start using rubber gloves and duct tape you need a better design in the first place. However, I don't think you will find that you need duct tape.

Regarding the heat, it's not the battery. It's the led. You have a P7 in there being driven to 2.8A right. Just make sure the heatsinking is adequate. Use some thermal paste between the heatsink and the body of the flashlight if you have any concerns but I would be more concerned if the body wasn't heating up.

 

[fongalv]

gcbryan: thanks for taking the time to answer all my questions.

I think the finger gloves didn't work out too well for the switch because they were still too big. The only reason I wanted to use them was to waterproof the switch portion which is currently my concern.

Pertaining to the glass, the original one was really thin, thats why I had it replaced. Here is the new one(~2mm) I used compared to stock.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe there is no driver in this light. The high/lo mode is the result of a resistor being used at the tailcap hence I don't think the method to twist it on twice would change modes. The toggle switch is an ON-OFF-ON switch. I just tried it with the MTE itself, left it on and tried to screw it on and off, didn't change modes.

Here is hanachans homepage, he has got more photos of the interiors and I followed his method more or less:
http://hanachan.ddo.jp/!!kosaku/2009/200907MTEP7/MTEP7-2.html

Once again, thank you for your patience, and yes half the enjoyment is in the building(in my case modding).

 

[gcbryan]

You are probably right regarding the resistor in the tailcap. I don't know that particular model but I do know that a few of the two mode switches at DX do use that method so you are correct twisting the tailcap wouldn't work.

I've seem Hanachan's projects. I like seeing what he comes up with. I just disagree with his "earlier work" where he went overboard with all of the sealing and two kinds of tape and gloves, etc.

I'm sure it will work and don't let me dissuade you from what you are doing. I just remembered that in one of his original flashlight projects all of the waterproofing doubled the size of the light and I have subsequently found in my own limited testing for it not to be necessary.

If you are going to use a toggle switch though of course you do have to find some way to waterproof it. I don't use
toggle switches.

I consider these projects as experiments rather than finely crafted dive lights so with my own projects I'm OK with not changing modes. I consider that whatever I do to convert a non-diving light into a diving light isn't likely to be perfect.

When I want something closer to perfect I go out and buy a ready made diving light.