Quality 18650s and charger?

[wiresquire]

Hey I'm considering an 18650 flashlight, and have now been utterly confused about the battery, charger and retailer options. I live in the *** end of the world, also known as Australia.

Anyone can go to dealextreme and look for the ones with the most/best reviews. I really don't want to cheap out on Li-on batteries/chargers.

Let me put it this way. I bought a Maha C9000 and use Immedions or Eneloops from a local(Aus) store I could be sure I was getting genuine. What is the equivalent in the 18650 Li-on world and where can I get them from a supplier I can know will only do genuine?

TIA
ws

 

[old4570]

Japanese cells Samsung , Panasonic , etc ..
Plenty on Ebay ATM .. But there not protected cells ...

Depending on the light you have / intend to buy , it may have voltage protection built in , maybe ...

Most of my lights have 3v protection built in ...

As for chargers , plenty to chose from ...

Only issue is whether your prepared to monitor the charge or not ...
If not , you may wish to try the Shekor charger ...

 

[wiresquire]

Thx for reply.

Assume I want safety first. If that means protected cells, I want that. If that means assume that the torch isn't regulated, assume that.

Any better protection available via the chargers, yes I want that too! Assume I don't monitor it. What is the best charger and batteries and where can I get them from that I can be sure I am getting what I am paying for?

ws

 

[zer0ne]

You want quality, then don't go DX

 

[wiresquire]

You want quality, then don't go DX

Well, thanks for that. No really. I am serious. You have been so helpful...

Like i said in my FP, tell me WHERE TO GO. Tell me WHAT CHARGER IS BEST. Tell me WHAT BATTERY IS SAFEST.

THANKS A LOT!

 

[zer0ne]

Pila is the one that follow CC/CV and no battery is safe if you do not take care of it. Protected ones provide some safety measure and no one will know when will the small piece of PCB fail and thus giving you a false sense of security.

 

[wiresquire]

Pila is the one that follow CC/CV and no battery is safe if you do not take care of it. Protected ones provide some safety measure and no one will know when will the small piece of PCB fail and thus giving you a false sense of security.

Well, thanks for that!

Like i said in my FP, where can I BUY PILA. Tell me WHAT CHARGER IS BEST WITH PILA. Tell me WHAT BATTERY IS SAFEST WITH PILA.

THANKS A LOT!

 

[old4570]

Shekor charger .... Terminates on completion ..
WF-139 Terminates on completion
WF-188 Terminates on completion [ one i tested had issues ]

Ive ordered a new charger , so wont comment on it till ive tested it ..

Batteries :

HArd to go wrong with the AW2600 ...

New batteries ... Wow18650 , fireworm 18650 , both tested well against the AW2600 ... Trustfire Red & Black 18650 also tested well against the AW2600 .

If you want one , Pilla charger ....

Safest ????? safety depends on you !!!! Are U safe or dangerous !!
If your dangerous , the batteries will be dangerous , no matter what you buy .

If your dangerous , go buy a AA light ....

 

[wiresquire]

Thank you, mate! This gives me an excellent starting point on chargers and batteries!!!

I already have an AA light or 2, that's why I'm lookin for something with a little more oomph!

I understand the difference/risk. Let's just say I would prefer safety to more light.

If anyone has shops/suppliers that I can buy these products from via the internet shipped to the *** end of the world (ie Australia), then that would be very appreciated!

 

[adept1]

Here are my favorite cheap 18650 batteries:

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.20392

About 25% the price of AW batteries, and so far very reliable.

 

[LEDAdd1ct]

Like i said in my FP, tell me WHERE TO GO. Tell me WHAT CHARGER IS BEST.

Bugoutgear, which will ship to Australia; Pila IBC charger, which is regarded by the vast majority of CPF as the most reliable consumer li-ion charger available:

Link

Tell me WHAT BATTERY IS SAFEST.

AW's protected cells, which are largely regarded by the vast majority of CPF as the safest/most reliable:


Link

THANKS A LOT!

You are very welcome! Best luck to you on your safe li-ion adventures.

 

[Casper507]

There is a 18750 comparison article on these forums. Gives both amp output and capacity of cells.

 

[jellydonut]

AW 18650s and Pila charger is the no-brainer choice. Feel free to experiment with others but if you want what is widely regarded as dependable and safe, those are it.

 

[45/70]

Anyone can go to dealextreme and look for the ones with the most/best reviews. I really don't want to cheap out on Li-on batteries/chargers.

A word to the wise about the reviews on DX. A lot of the "experts" on there couldn't tie their own shoes, unless somebody helped them. Considering the source, as others have mentioned, if you want anything resembling quality, you're looking in the wrong place.

What is "the best" is subjective, many here including myself would answer your questions by recommending a Pila charger and AW cells. If you're looking for better charger and cells, it gets more complicated.

You can find name brand cells from manufacturers such as Samsung and such on fleabay, but unless these cells were pulled from battery packs, they are likely "seconds" that didn't make the grade for use in the aforementioned battery packs. You can never be sure what you're getting. Also, they don't usually offer a protection PCB, unless some third party has added one, as manufacturers do not offer protected cells. Still, this is probably a better option than DX, if you want good cells. All of the cells that I'm aware of on DX, are factory seconds as well, that originate from the Chinese cell manufacturers. And no, xxxxxFire et al, are not manufacturers, merely distributors of said cells.

Likewise, you can obtain a better charger by going the hobby charger route. This however involves having a better understanding of Li-Ion cells and their handling characteristics, to charge cells safely. Also, setting up a hobby charger for charging individual "loose" Li-Ion cells, as opposed to charging packs, which these chargers were designed for, requires adapting, or making from scratch a charging cradle, and in some cases obtaining a power supply for powering the charger.

Finally, it is highly recommended, if you haven't already, that you look over the relevant threads in the "sticky" at the top of this Forum, and also read through the "Smoke and Fire" section, also at the top of this Forum. Using and maintaining Li-Ion cells is a bit more complicated than using other cell chemistries.

Dave

 

[Ronv66]

Newby here, first post,, a question regarding rechargeable 18650's + fully charged + long storage.

I read somewhere yesterday that if you fully charge an 18650 and then store it for a long time it will lose some of its capacity to hold a charge. Something about crystallization occurring and that recharging can't break up the crystals that formed so the mAh rating is reduced. Soo,, two questions.

1. Is this true?
2. If true, how long is a long time?
3. And, if true, any data on how much capacity (percentage of mAh) is lost and over what period of time?

Ron

 

[45/70]

Hi Ron. The problem with Li-Ion cells isn't crystallization, that's a nickel based cell problem. The higher the SOC (state of charge) that a Li-Ion cell is stored, the more oxidation, and thus degradation of the cell occurs. This is why manufacturers ship cells in a 40% SOC, or at about 3.80 Volts, for LiCo cells.

Regardless of what voltage or SOC Li-Ion cells are stored at however, they oxidize and cell degradation takes place. The amount of degradation depends on many factors and is difficult to predict with any accuracy.

Modern LiCo cells are considered to have a shelf life of about 5 years. This can be extended by keeping cells in a 40% SOC and in a refrigerator at 35-40F. I have done this and have cells that are almost 6 years old that are still in reasonable condition.

Here is a chart from Battery University that shows some figures on storing cells at different temperatures. Along with storing the cells in a partially discharged state, this can extend the lifetime of cells considerably.

Dave

 

[Ronv66]

Thank you Dave. This loss of charge capacity does make it a bit hard to keep a flashlight in one's car ready and able to be used when needed - which generally is rarely used. I suppose it just makes sense to have the 18650 in my new T20C2 MKII and then keep two CR123's in the glove compartment as backup should the light fail.

I am not familiar with the term LiCo. I am assuming, a dangerous thing at best, that LiCo refers to the Li-Ion battery.

From the chart you had me go to,, it showed the least loss for 18650's at 0ºC. Is this also true for Primary CR123's - to put them in the freezer also to keep them fresher??

Also, I notice that folks check the voltage of their batteries,, do you have a suggestion for an accurate tester I should get just to be safe? Inexpensive would be nice. LOL

Ron

 

[wiresquire]

Thanks to those who gave pointers towards the Pila charger and AW 18650s!

Much appreciated

 

[amigafan2003]

From the chart you had me go to,, it showed the least loss for 18650's at 0ºC. Is this also true for Primary CR123's - to put them in the freezer also to keep them fresher??

No, primaries are not affected in the same way.

I keep all my li-ions fully charged in the fridge - I wouldn't feel comfortable with them in the freezer, although others report they are fine as the electrolyte in a li-ion freezes at -40c and most consumer grade freezers only go down to -18c.

 

[TranceAddict]

best unprotected 18650:
panasonic ncr18650a

best protected 18650:
AW ICR18650
WoW 18650

best plug n play charger:
Pila IBC

best hobby charger:
Schulze next-2x7-280-eco