Question about Sundrop light engine.

[fyrstormer]

I recently picked up an Aleph Mule retrofitted with a Sundrop light engine. The back of the light engine has the code "6V" written on it. Does this mean it won't work properly with a single RCR123 cell? Is it capable of boosting output voltage as the cell drops below 3.6v, or is it only capable of reducing the output voltage?

Also, is it made with a 031A or 031B emitter?

 

[AlecGold]

where did the sundrop LE come from? Does it have 1 or 3 levels?
It's really hard to distinguish between the 038A and 038B emitter.
the 031 emitter is unknown to me.
Difference between the A and B is the output and the light of the B is a bit more white/perhaps a shade of blue.

 

[McGizmo]

Whoever you got the LE from would likely be the best source of information?!?! It sounds like it has a SOB 333 mA converter in there which would mean it is a buck driver and Vin needs to be greater than the Vf of the LED. I would guess it came from a SunDrop XP (extended play) that was set up for 2x123 battery. I would also guess that it has a 083A LED but that is just a guess and based on a guess that I made the LE. :shrug:

 

[fyrstormer]

It is a single-level driver. On and off. Came out of a SunDrop of some sort, but was never used, that's all I know about it.

 

[AlecGold]

Ow, in that case you have one of the earliest sundrops, the first series had just one level. I've got one of those as well and the converter/driver I don't know about, but it is a 083A led from Nichia and IIRC this one is NOT ment to be driven at anything higher than 3,6V. But Don can tell that prob. better than I can. there is somewhere a thread about the first sundrops. let me find it.

edit: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=199058
post #22 says it has a NexGen driver, due to some constipation in the production of the 3 level that was meant to happen. But I'm converting my 1 level to a UV led, because it's realtive easy to do and gives me h*ll of a though UV light

 

[karlheinz3]

To clear up any questions...That light engine came from Troy's Sun Drop XP and had no use time. I'm sure Don knows how arewethereyetdad treats his collections from a past transaction with a Lunasol 20! I think you might remember that saga of seller's remorse Don! I simply pulled a Datiled CREE Q5 3 speed driven at 1.2A by a standard Flupic from a minty EN Mule that I had received from marcoc and transplanted the Sun Drop light engine in the Mule. I powered the SunDrop XP host with an AW 17670 with the label removed and it is now my very favorite light hosting green glow epoxy. I know I messed with the master's creation but the end result gave me great pleasure and total customer satisfaction. I even just purchased a CX-2 pak to recreate a similar body style for my Lunasol 27. I did it with an aleph1 ti clone from Mirage_man and a ti mcclicky pak too! I feel that Don's work is awesome but can be a real challenge to acquire in the secondary market since all the waves seem to be quickly depleated. I hope Don can shed some light on your questions now that he knows the situation at hand. I am a total rookie but I am having fun and learning more every day. :shrug:

 

[fyrstormer]

No complaints Karl, just trying to find out what the input voltage range is on my new toy.

 

[McGizmo]

Your LE has a SOB buck converter and Vin can range from the Vf of the LED plus some overhead (no idea what that might be) up to I think about 16V.

 

[fyrstormer]

So it's gonna get dimmer as the battery wears down, huh? Phooey. I guess I'll just have to wait for that MC-E light engine I was bugging you about in another thread.

They have Neutral-white MC-Es now, btw. The beamshots I saw were quite promising.

 

[AlecGold]

why not make your own? buy a can, get a MCPCB, led and some converter, hook them up together et voila, a new LE to your own specification.
I've used a GDuP, that is pretty expensive IMHO, it gives 700mAh which is nice for a reasonable runtime/lumens ratio.
1.5Ah is really a lot. to much, if you ask me, what to do with such a lot light. and the low won't be really low anymore, it will be 20mAh. And medium will be around 640mAh. that is a lot of light for most uses.

 

[fyrstormer]

What I would do with that much light is illuminate large outdoor areas -- not as big as a field, but certainly as big as a picnic pavilion or a 20-space parking lot. I already have plenty of lights I can use to light up things close to me; what I want now is a tiny sun. I can't use ceiling bounce to get really bright, smooth illumination when I'm outside.

The MC-E has a maximum current of 700mA per die; while the voltage output of the GDuP might be suitable, the maximum current is 1/4 of the MC-E's capacity. I wish I knew what it would take to improve its output to at least 1400mA.

 

[AlecGold]

What I would do with that much light is illuminate large outdoor areas -- not as big as a field, but certainly as big as a picnic pavilion or a 20-space parking lot. I already have plenty of lights I can use to light up things close to me; what I want now is a tiny sun. I can't use ceiling bounce to get really bright, smooth illumination when I'm outside.

I've got a good old SureFire M6 for that. It lights up a baseball field like nothing else, is still pretty portable and costs a fortune to operate
With a little search these M6's can be gotten at good prices, so it shouldn't have to be too expensive in acquiring. IMHO incan's still have specific uses where no Led can go. yet.
Until the Nichia 083Z gets around the corner and melts down with out a whopping 500lumens output, the M6 is my choice for portable sun.
I'm not sure a sundrop, in what ever version, is the light for lighting up a car park to watch any bad guys hiding.

http://www.cree.com/products/pdf/XLampMC-E.pdf
page two says it put's out 430lm @350mAh. I would say that @700mAh it could generate some 730 lumens. But that's not what you would get out of your sundrop. And I would be afraid that the light is not able to dissipate the 9 watts of heat that is generated, so the led could degenerate quickly. And the current sundrop light engine as well the GDuP can't put out much more than 700mAh and the other converters I know of that can deliver 1.5Ah just doesn't have levels.
http://theledguy.chainreactionweb.com/product_info.php?cPath=48_49_61&products_id=1244
that's 3Ah at your request
with some extra explanation
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=211599
But it's a step down converter and you would need at least 6V in to get 3.48V & 10.9W out..
I think that would suck the life out of 2x123's in under 30 minutes?

So to get back at the Sundrop light engine: I think the decision that Don made for the Sundrops makes a lot of sense. It can be extremely economic. It can put out enough light to facilitate a walk in the dark and it does so with a rather unique beam. If you want to defend yourself in the car parc, think about http://www.surefire.com/LX2-LumaMax 200 lumens, and we all know that Surefire is conservative about their ratings.

 

[fyrstormer]

I understand the limitations of the platform. Nonetheless, it would be nice to have a light engine available that can run an MC-E as hard as possible as long as possible off a single cell, and if that's not what I need at any given moment then I can just not turn it up all the way.

When you say the MC-E produces 730 lumens at 700mA, is that per die or all dies combined? I suspect it's the former, which would require 2800mA total.

 

[AlecGold]

It is per die indeed.
And running 3Ah of a single cell is just not physical possible, the chance (not even risk anymore, it's a pretty good chance) of getting a venting cell or even a flaming cell is high. I think it is even stretching a two cell config pretty hard. and a in your pocket wouldn't be my idea of a pocketrocket... :nana:
So unless you're gonna make it yourself, I don't think there is anyone that is willing to do it and then sell it to you, just because the risks and the liability of making such a rocket.

I like
hehheehe, I know, I'm childish...

 

[fyrstormer]

Where would I get an empty light engine if I wanted to do so? I don't see one at the Sandwich Shoppe, or else it isn't called what I expected.

Lithium-Manganese batteries don't vent with flames. I actually shorted one for about 30 seconds and it got hot enough to melt the plastic, but no catatrophic failure. They can also push higher amperage than Lithium-Cobalt-Oxide batteries can.

My goal is not to run the MC-E at the most it can handle, but to run the MC-E at the most that all the parts combined can handle. In any event, I won't be using this for extended periods -- the only lights I really do use for more than a minute at a time are my little penlights, for some strange reason. The point of this is to illuminate as large an area as possible as brightly as possible until I find what I'm looking for, and then it will be shut off again.

 

[AlecGold]

the light engine consist of a can, a back-board (dunno how it is called) a converter, then a MCPCB and a led on top.

Li-Ma have the problem of less stored energy, so that would give even less runtime?! the non-venting is nice.
But and for me that is a big but, you're no longer able to use CR123's. And I like those a lot because I can carry a few with me, without having the trouble of recharging them in time.

 

[fyrstormer]

Not being able to run the light at full power on primaries is not a concern for me; I haven't used a primary..well...ever. I certainly wouldn't use them in a high-power light, because it would kill the batteries far too quickly, and I'd much rather pay $6 for a battery I can reuse even 100x than a handful of batteries I can only use once.

Anyway, I understand what the basic parts are, but where do I get the can they all fit into?

 

[fyrstormer]

Okay, I don't know why it just occurred to me to do this, but I swapped back and forth between a Duracell CR123 and an AW RCR123, and the difference in brightness between the two was blinding -- at least when I looked at the emitter. So if the Sundrop light engine I have used to be in a Sundrop XP, it can't have been the original light engine in that Sundrop XP, because if a single RCR123 lit it up that bright, two CR123s (to say nothing of two RCR123s) would've burned the poor sucker right out. Clearly it doesn't have a buck circuit in it, only boost.

In a way that's disappointing, actually, because it means the Sundrop really is a lot dimmer (when operating as intended) than I thought it would be, but Don did say it's a niche light. I guess I'll just have to get something more mainstream to put in my Mule.

Anyone interested in buying a single-speed Sundrop light engine of uncertain, but presumably early, vintage? :duh2:

 

[McGizmo]

Before you rule out this being a SOB (buck) lighe engine, can you measure the current draw on say the R123 cell?

I believe I have only used the GD converters, SOB and lately, 3S converters. That would mean that the LE should be fine on a single R123. If, as I still suspect, it is a SOB LE then it should be brighter on a Li-Ion than a primary lithium cell.

You say the code on the LE says 6V and if I put that on there (my guess is that I did) then it is quite likely a SOB converter which I think I may have mentioned already?

 

[fyrstormer]

You did mention that, yes.

Now that I stand back and re-examine my logic, it doesn't seem so sound as it did before. If a single cell (regardless of voltage) is too weak for the regulator to properly do its job, then a higher-voltage single cell will still cause the LED to be brighter than a lower-voltage cell, all without actually overdriving the circuit. Is that accurate? Dammit, I picked a bad month to quit sniffing glue.