Question on Maha MH-C204F

[pinecone]

Being new to this forum I'm interested in purchasing some Eneloop AA's. I have an old Maha MH-C204F charger I've been using with Powerex nimh batteries.

I realize there are many new sophisticated chargers out there, but with my infrequent usage of batteries could I get by with the Maha 204? If so, any particular charging techniques to use to prolong battery life?

thanks,

 

[rickd]

Absolutely. With going to LSD like the Eneloops, you don't want to leave your batteries trickle charging for large period of time. Simply remove them once they are charged (about 4 to 5 hours for AA). Also, like any other NiMH, don't overdischarge them

 

[kitelights]

I'm a fan of single channel chargers and unless the 204 changed from when I bought mine, it is not. You have to charge two cells together.

Eneloops have changed my experience using rechargeables altogether. They're everything that I wished rechargeables were back then. I would recommend a newer individual smart charger.

Once you start using the Eneloops, I think you'll start using more of them.

 

[pinecone]

Well, I understand the benefit of single channel chargers but I just wonder if it's worth the price since i already have the 204F.

I really don't recharge that much, and with low discharge Eneloops probably would only need to every couple of months based on my usage (minimum flashlight and digital camera use).

If I had Eneloops of different discharge levels couldn't I just completely discharge or use the "conditioner mode" of the 204F and then recharge?

 

[SilverFox]

Hello Pinecone,

Welcome to CPF.

Chargers that work with pairs of cells do not recognize the differences between the cells.

For example: If you want to condition a pair of cells, the charger is going to discharge the pair of cells down to something like 0.9 volts per cell or until the combined voltage for the two cells is 1.8 volts.

The problem is that there are may ways to get to 1.8 volts. If one cell is at 1.2 volts, the other one would be 0.6 volts.

Now that the cells are "conditioned" what do you think happens during charging?

It is best to use a charger that charges each cell independently.

Tom

 

[pinecone]

Hello Pinecone,

Welcome to CPF.

Chargers that work with pairs of cells do not recognize the differences between the cells.

For example: If you want to condition a pair of cells, the charger is going to discharge the pair of cells down to something like 0.9 volts per cell or until the combined voltage for the two cells is 1.8 volts.

The problem is that there are may ways to get to 1.8 volts. If one cell is at 1.2 volts, the other one would be 0.6 volts.

Now that the cells are "conditioned" what do you think happens during charging?

It is best to use a charger that charges each cell independently.

Tom

Well, I assume the single channel charger would charge to 2.4v combined. Meaning the 0.6v cell would not fully charge and the 1.2v cell would overcharge? Am I correct?

If this is the case then I can see why the single channel chargers are so popular, and why I've not got a very long life out of my current crop of batteries.

I've read the many posts on the C9000 vs. the BC900. As a casual charger, not a frequent charger/experimenter, I'm still not sure which of these chargers would fit my needs.

At any rate guess I better scrap the old Maha 204.

thanks,

 

[SilverFox]

Hello Pinecone,

You are correct.

I would recommend getting the C-9000 simply because of its break in function.

Keep in mind that if you have a pair of cells that are well matched the 204 will probably work fine. It is just a problem when the cells get out of balance. It is always good to have an extra charger around, even if it is only occasionally used and charges in pairs.

Tom

 

[pinecone]

thanks Tom,

You are a wealth of info based on this and other posts. I'll get the C-9000 and some Eneloops and give it a try.

Jerry

 

[Bones]

I note from its specifications that the MH-C204F follows the primary charge with a continuous 24mA trickle charge.

Although there is increasing evidence that sustained trickle charging diminishes cyle life, it can also compensate for imbalances created during the primary charge cyle.

Accordingly, with the MH-C9000 on hand to periodically verify the degree of imbalance and the ability to bring cells back into full balance when required, SilverFox's suggestion that the MH-C204F can still serve a useful function as both a backup and an alternate charger is certainly valid.

It's very satisfying to assess, condition and performance match cells with the MH-C9000, but some of these processes can take literally days to complete, so another charger is almost a must anyway.

Besides, even though the MH-C204F is dated, it is still a top-quality product that not too long ago was considered best in class:

http://www.imaging-resource.com/ACCS/C204/
-

 

[N162E]

I've read the many posts on the C9000 vs. the BC900. As a casual charger, not a frequent charger/experimenter, I'm still not sure which of these chargers would fit my needs.

thanks,

Either one is more than adequate. The BC-900 is smaller and easier to use. The C-9000 has some extra features but requires a little more effort to use.

 

[jt4703]

I have both and actually find the C-9000 easier of the two to operate and feel confident it is doing what I want. I have been less than impressed with the BC-900 but mostly due to complications trying to make the individual bays do different things at the same time. I've retired my old 204F in favor of the BC-900 for charging when the Maha is busy with other tasks. I really like the break-in and refresh/analyze options the C-9000 offers and have revived some 'dead' cells and found som real dead cells due for recycling. The default charge rate on the C-9000 (1000mah) is much better for me since it is high enough to pop in my AAs and walk away. The BC-900 has 200mah default rate is great for AAAs, but takes 4 button presses to bring it up to 1000mah. It wont charge all 4 bays over 1000mah either, so if you have or will be getting higher capacity cells or wish to charge eneloops at 1C, you will want the C-9000 for that option.

You can get
C-9000, 8 AA eneloops, and a bunch of battery cases (to lower shipping) for ~$80 delivered
or
BC -900 with accessory pack (includes lacrosse batteries, carrying case and battery adapters., 8 AA eneloops (included with purchase of charger), bunch of cases for ~$65 delivered
from Thomas Distributing
http://www.thomas-distributing.com/index.htm
Search the net and you can probably find a returning customer coupon code or link to save 5%. Shipping is a little spendy but worth it.

 

[pinecone]

I note from its specifications that the MH-C204F follows the primary charge with a continuous 24mA trickle charge.

Although there is increasing evidence that sustained trickle charging diminishes cyle life, it can also compensate for imbalances created during the primary charge cyle.

Accordingly, with the MH-C9000 on hand to periodically verify the degree of imbalance and the ability to bring cells back into full balance when required, SilverFox's suggestion that the MH-C204F can still serve a useful function as both a backup and an alternate charger is certainly valid.

It's very satisfying to assess, condition and performance match cells with the MH-C9000, but some of these processes can take literally days to complete, so another charger is almost a must anyway.

Besides, even though the MH-C204F is dated, it is still a top-quality product that not too long ago was considered best in class:

http://www.imaging-resource.com/ACCS/C204/
-

Thanks guys, great info! So Mr. Bones, it appears I could routinely use the C-9000 to maintain my Eneloops, but occasionally use the 204 to charge them a couple of cycles without significant harm???

The reason I ask this is that the 204 is small and ideal for travel carry. I honestly don't use/recharge batteries that much which is why I was trying to get by (be cheap) with the old 204.

In addition, I carry enough AA's with me that I might only have to run through a charge cycle once per battery on a trip.

One big advantage I see is prolonged life with some of the cheap Walmart Nimh's we have. I'm lucky to get a year out of them and I'll bet conditioning with the C-9000 will revive them and add prolonged life.

I really didn't want to take up "batteries" as a hobby but this is getting interesting.

 

[kitelights]

You may be able to find one of the individual channel Eneloop chargers on the Marketplace. I see them occasionally for about $12-15. They take up even less space than your 204 (no wall wart) - just make sure that you get an individual channel charger - they make a 2 channel (charge in pairs) too.

You've already stated that you've probably ruined some of your cells because of the charger, so I'm guessing that you're reluctant to use rechargeables except where necessary to be practical because of your disappointment with rechargeable cells.

My point is that once you start using Eneloops, I think that you'll be pleasantly surprised and will likely use them for more things than you are now. That makes the purchase of a good charger even more practical.

 

[N162E]

Well, I assume the single channel charger would charge to 2.4v combined. Meaning the 0.6v cell would not fully charge and the 1.2v cell would overcharge? Am I correct?

At any rate guess I better scrap the old Maha 204.

thanks,

I'm not so sure of this and it does not seem like anyone else is willing to commit either. I have some cells discharging on my C-9000s both lsd and non lsd. When the cells are discharged I will pair them up with fully charged ones on a pair of 2 cell per channel chargers and see how this works out. Results, tomorrow sometime.

I charge with BC-7 and 900s and test with C-9000s.

 

[Bones]

...

So Mr. Bones, it appears I could routinely use the C-9000 to maintain my Eneloops, but occasionally use the 204 to charge them a couple of cycles without significant harm???

...

Based on its specifications, I think you should be okay. However, you can easily confirm this by periodically utitilizing the discharge function of the MH-C9000 to compare the capacity a pair of cells subjected to a few charges on the MH-204F and then subjected to a full charge on the MH-C9000.

However, for lots more information on the pitfalls of charging in pairs, you can also peruse the following thread which was commenced by SilverFox:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com...post2778384
-

 

[qqqqqqqman]

I guess the "Search" function works, as I have the exact same questions as the OP. Just found an older (8 yrs. ?) MAHA MH-C204F charger in my closet and wondering if it's worth using...I'm new to upgraded flashlights and CPF. Good to read this stuff.

BUT, if I buy brand new AA rechargeables, shouldn't the issue of non-paired cells be lessened?

**

 

[Closet_Flashaholic]

I have the C9000 and a couple of C204F's. I purchased the C204's when I really didn't have any exotic charger needs, much like you, from the sound of it. The inexpensive series chargers really take their toll on batteries though especially since I have a device that uses 3 batteries.

Just as an FYI, I wanted a simpler charger that did single cell charging and MAHA does make one very similar to the C204, it's model MH-C401FS. It has 4 independent charging circuits. Unfortunately, it's around the same cost as a C9000, which I completely do not understand.