Quick question on batt voltage and Malkoff m60s

[c.joe]

Hi everyone,

I have been lurking around for a bit and just putting that search bar to work before I posted this thread. Before reading on, I am speaking in context with my Surefire G2 LED with fairly new stock SF batteries.

I read that those cheap-o 3.7volt cr123a China brand rechargeable batteries that are dirt cheap on eBay are no good and that any US made battery would out-perform it any day.

So I was wondering, the Surefire 123a's are 3.0v.. how would this compare to 3.7v? I know from operating other equipment that higher voltage would lead to high outputs. So does this mean my flashlight would be brighter with a higher voltage?

I also made the mistake of buying an Alpha Series G-10 (luckily for $20) from Arctic Traders on eBay. I'm still using the stock and fairly new Surefire 123a's and I really don't see a significant increase in performance. Is there anything I can do from here to increase my light output/brightness?

This forum is swarming with people just praising the Malkoff M60 LED drop in's. Where can I go about purchasing one of these? Do they really increase brightness significantly just by replacing the bulb? Would you recommend it with my Surefire G2 LED? (The search bar really didn't help much here. Sorry if it's a question answered over and over again)

Lastly, if you had to choose the best performing cr123a battery (or w/e other battery that fits in the SF G2 LED), which would you choose? I can see a thread with an excellent review of a few known 123a's. Sadly, being still new to this business, it's quite hard to understand it and find a conclusion on my own.

I would appreciate any response and tips. Lots of questions here and I hope you guys can help me out.

Thanks in advance; much appreciated.

-Chris

 

[c.joe]

Any reply is appreciated!

 

[Kestrel]

:welcome:
LOL, seven questions in your post, and for the most part, they aren't quick ones to answer. ;-)

I read that those cheap-o 3.7volt cr123a China brand rechargeable batteries that are dirt cheap on eBay are no good and that any US made battery would out-perform it any day.
So I was wondering, the Surefire 123a's are 3.0v.. how would this compare to 3.7v?

re: CR123's (primaries, non-rechargeable): These "3v" cells actually deliver ~2.5v under the type of loads that we are giving them. Panasonic makes very high quality CR123s in the US, which are then rebranded as SureFire, Duracell, Energizer, Rayovac, BatteryStation, and Streamlight. All are excellent cells that perform particularly well (i.e delivering a high capacity) at relatively low drain rates that you will normally encounter with most LED flashlights. There are also some decent-quality CR123's made elsewhere, I have less experience with them, some of which perform reasonably well at significantly higher drain rates. However, I'm relatively confident of the quality control in the US made cells, less so with the inexpensive imports. Cells are inexpensive if you really think about it, buy top-quality ones - excellent prices can be found on the US-made cells by purchasing them in bulk online.
re: RCR123's (LiIon rechargeables): These "4.2v" cells actually deliver ~3.7v under the type of loads that we are giving them. There are a number of facilities in China manufacturing LiIon rechargeables (not only RCR123's but larger/longer cells such as 17670's & 18650's, etc). Some are of high quality, such as Pila and AW. Some are of lesser quality - TrustFire & Ultrafire are two examples (many discussions & much debate on CPF about these). Then there's Ebay, goodness knows what you'll be getting with some of those.
AW is considered to be an excellent brand at a fair price, these cells are very popular on CPF. Great customer service as well.

For more background info on LiIon rechargeables, I would highly recommend reading Mdocod's two LiIon guides here and here. Make sure you stay with 'protected' cells rather than ones lacking protection circuitry.

I know from operating other equipment that higher voltage would lead to high outputs. So does this mean my flashlight would be brighter with a higher voltage?

Complicated question, so here's only a short & oversimplified version: Most LED drop-ins contain regulation circuits, so they will perform at a relatively constant output over a voltage range, in many cases ~3.8v-9v for example. If your cell(s) provide a lower voltage than what the module is rated for, you will get reduced output, sometimes considerably lower. If you provide a higher voltage than what the module is rated for, you run the high risk of a

I also made the mistake of buying an Alpha Series G-10 (luckily for $20) from Arctic Traders on eBay. I'm still using the stock and fairly new Surefire 123a's and I really don't see a significant increase in performance. Is there anything I can do from here to increase my light output/brightness?

Not surprised about that one, the reputation of most of the LED drop-ins on Ebay is that they are very over-rated with regards to output. After the top-rated brands (SureFire & Malkoff) and the highly-regarded handbuilt units sold here on CPF (Nailbender & Anto for example), there are the well-regarded imported brands such as Dereelight & SolarForce. Other less-expensive units I wouldn't bother with, IMO.

This forum is swarming with people just praising the Malkoff M60 LED drop in's. Where can I go about purchasing one of these? Do they really increase brightness significantly just by replacing the bulb? Would you recommend it with my Surefire G2 LED?

The Malkoff M60 has been discontinued, but it's replacement (the M61) is very highly-regarded. Malkoff is currently gearing up production and while availability is limited at the moment, if you are patient I would highly recommend one. Going from your SF P60LED, you would be going from ~80 lumens to close to ~300 lumens while retaining adequate runtime, plus better tint. I have sold every SF P60LED drop-in I have owned & replaced them with Malkoffs for the most part. There are huge threads on this topic (some of which are pretty easy for beginners), just search for "SureFire Malkoff M60" and prepare for a lot of reading. ;-)
Good suggestions for starters:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?p=3130056#post3130056
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=219713
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=207884
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=227576

As this thread is in the Batteries / Electronics subforum, I would recommend that if you have any further questions on LED modules, it would be best to post them in the LED subforum (best would be to find the most applicable existing thread and post in there).

Don't forget that the nitrolon G2 (and to a lesser extent, the aluminum-bezel G2L) is less-than-optimum for heat, and would be borderline for maximum-output LED modules.

Lastly, if you had to choose the best performing cr123a battery (or w/e other battery that fits in the SF G2 LED), which would you choose? I can see a thread with an excellent review of a few known 123a's. Sadly, being still new to this business, it's quite hard to understand it and find a conclusion on my own.

IMO:
CR123's: US manufactured brands as stated previously (as low as ~$1.25 each in quantities of ~20 when purchased online, a great deal really, and why try to save a couple of bucks with brands that have been shown to be less consistent?).
LiIon rechargeables (stay with 'protected' cells): AW, either directly or from Lighthound.
Once you have a Malkoff drop-in, I would definitely prefer a single 17670 in a SF G2L. Somewhat less output (as the voltage from the single LiIon is borderline for nominal operation in the Malkoff), but far greater total runtime, a 1x17670 can deliver ~45% more total energy than 2 RCR123's for the same total length. The AW protected 17670 is a very popular cell for the SF G2 host for LED drop-ins that perform relatively well @ 3.7v (the SF P60LED drop-in doesn't perform well at all @ 3.7v BTW). This is an elegant way IMO to get around the heat issue for your particular host, as the slightly decreased output (~ 10-20% less than a modules' rated maximum output) will provide you more of a safety margin in your nitrolon-bodied, aluminum-bezel G2L.

Hope this helps,
K

 

[c.joe]

Kestrel thank you so much for the response, it is much appreciated.

I still have much to learn and a LOT of reading to do!!

Cheers,
-Chris

 

[Kestrel]

Regarding purchasing CR123 primaries:

• LightHound is a good online retailer ($75 orders get free shipping in the U.S.), and carries a huge selection of lights & related gear.
• BatteryJunction has excellent prices on CR123's, as well as having very wide battery selection in general.

Either provides great customer service, and don't forget to request the CPF discount.