Red HDS/Novatac?

[ElectronGuru]

I'm spec'ing an HDS for my nephew who is in the US Army (still pre-deployment). What is the best way to 'red output' an HDS/Novatac? I'm okay making something but it has to be non destructive to the light and durable.

Thanks.

 

[Gatsby]

I'm fairly certain that Surefire E1/E2 filters and beamshaper will fit the HDS EDC lights. I'd have to do a search but perhaps someone else can confirm.

 

[VerbalK]

yes the F05 red filter fit on HDS

 

[alanagnostic]

I just sent one of my HDS's to Milkyspit to have a red LED put in. I've grown very fond of red LED's and I wanted a high-quality, multi-level light that would last. HDS is an excellent light and I would think a modded red one would be perfect for military applications.

 

[matrixshaman]

ditto - the SF Red filter fits perfectly. Because it is a filter it reduces output quite a bit - thus passing only red light. A red Luxeon or other high power red LED would be much brighter if swapped out.

 

[npkeith]

Just a comment - if surefire filters fit, that would seem to be the best way to do it - they also have an IR only filter for use with night vision gear - just a matter of swapping filters. If I where going to Iraq, I'd want as many options as I could get...

 

[Lightraven]

Most InfraRed filters were meant to be used with incandescent lights, not LED which typically don't emit IR wavelengths. There are certain purpose built IR LEDs (I think Surefire makes one) but I wouldn't buy the IR filter for a visible LED unless checking it out first.

I have a Novatac and PVS-14 type night vision, but not an IR filter handy so I can't check it out myself.

Hopefully, any soldier working the night vision goggles also has the IR laser and illuminator attached to his gun.

 

[ElectronGuru]

Awesome replies everyone!

I've asked him if he needs short term red or long term red. If its long term, I'll work to get a red LED in there.

Follow up question:
Are there different kinds of red LEDs such that a particular color or version of red has any tactical advantage? For this, assume that the field of available options (makes/models) is HDS mount/application specific.

 

[alanagnostic]

When I contacted Milky about my HDS mod he recommended a Luxeon red-orange LED (about 615 nanaometers) but he said a red Luxeon (about 630 nanometers) and a red Seuol would also work but wouldn't be as bright. The red-orange Luxeon should put out about 60 lumens and the Seoul was about 30 lumens. Since I wanted the bright option I went with the red-orange.

The advantages of different red or red-orange LED's would depend on the application. As I understand it the true red LED's (about 660 nm) will preserve night vision better, but they're supposed to be pretty dim. I would expect the red-orange to provide good night vision protection but I'm not sure. As I understand night vision, the key to preserving it is to use dim light, no matter what the color. Since the HDS allows for very dim setting I would think that wouldn't be a problem. I would PM Milkyspit about this. He has been very helpful with me.

 

[Lightraven]

The only consideration when I was in the Army was the ability to read military maps. They were colored without pure red so that red light didn't wash out any important features.

The red filters for military flashlights was just regular red--nothing special I recall.

Nowadays, blue-green could be important for use with night vision goggles. I use NVGs from time to time (I used them the other night with my Novatac 120T), but I'm not worried about "blooming" them out with red or white light, which a soldier might be, so I don't have any blue-green lenses.

 

[ElectronGuru]

The only consideration when I was in the Army was the ability to read military maps. They were colored without pure red so that red light didn't wash out any important features.

The red filters for military flashlights was just regular red--nothing special I recall.

Nowadays, blue-green could be important for use with night vision goggles. I use NVGs from time to time (I used them the other night with my Novatac 120T), but I'm not worried about "blooming" them out with red or white light, which a soldier might be, so I don't have any blue-green lenses.

Sounds like he may be running up against outdated standards. Are we saying that 1 lumen of white light is better at preserving night vision than 10 lumens of red light? Or even that 10 lumens of white light are equal to 10 lumens of red?

What about being less visible to others, same lumen example?

 

[ElectronGuru]

Since the HDS allows for very dim setting I would think that wouldn't be a problem. I would PM Milkyspit about this. He has been very helpful with me.

Great info. So I'm clear, I'm talking about the post-Novatac HDS, not the pre-Novatac. I expect it too will have super low.

 

[joema]

I have an HDS U60, similar to the Novatac 120P. At lowest setting, output is 0.08 lumens. It totally preserves night vision, despite being white. I've used it during telescope "star parties" where total preservation of night vision is critical. It works fine at that extremely low level.

However I think the non-programmable Novatacs have a 0.3 lumen low level -- is that right? For that you might need a red filter.

Personally I'd get the Novatac 120P, which gives you the lower levels, then use a red filter only if needed. That eliminates one more item to carry and manage.

 

[mcmc]

The mini-mag replacement filters (you can buy a set of clear, blue, and red I believe) will fit exactly in place of the stock lens.

On my Seoul modded HDS (similar output to Novatac recent 120 models), with the red filter in place it's still plenty bright - especially at night, which is when you'd use it. Also, during the daytime the red filter prominently reminds you and/or others that it is a red "blackout" light.

I'd recommend this route as it leaves you the option of using it for white light if needed, esp. in an emergency situation where it is your only light left.

 

[DM51]

I agree with the others that the SF filter would be best for this. And for military use I would suggest the 120T, rather than the "P" model. The switch is easier to operate with gloves etc, the UI is a lot more intuitive, the brightness settings are ideal, and it has the tactical strobe if needed.

 

[Lightraven]

I left the Army years ago and their light doctrine today is certainly more sophisticated than 1992. I guess if the only goal is to maintain night adaptation of the retina, red light is supposedly the best. Also, the dimmer the light is of any color, the less degradation of night adaptation. I don't know if 10 lumens of red is better than 1 lumen of white in this regard. 10 lumens is pretty bright, by tactical field standards. 1-2 lumens is about what I'd use for tactical situations.

There are many other goals besides preserving night adaptation, however. Signalling is one. Working with night vision equipment. Not being detected by enemies. Detecting blood--a friendly's wound or an enemy blood trail. Spotting and identifying bad guys and roadside bombs. The color of the light must conform to the most important priorities at that moment. Red is not going to work well for a combat medic who is searching for bleeding wounds or signs of cyanosis. Blue/green may cause all the water features on a map to disappear. And anything but white makes spotting hidden objects really tough, since color helps us see what doesn't blend in. With what I've read about Special Forces in Afghanistan, they have discovered white is actually a better choice than red.

 

[ElectronGuru]

More great info. Thank you.

If anyone has additional "tactical flashlight" advice/info, I would love to pass it on. Or for that matter, info (or good web sites) on other military gear.