Renamed: Tankless water heaters?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Jason, that is an even better price for the Bosch/Lowes heaters - any way to tell if they are the same as the Aquastars? By the price and size I think they may be, and about $150 cheaper than I've found the Bosch/Aquastars at online.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

(tik; check the last few posts of p.1 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif )

 

[Saaby]

If she's worried about CO2 then get some alarms. I'm living proof they work. In April our furnace died and tried to take us with it.

I know this is of no help to you Diesel...but we have a tank water heater. The water is fairly hard in our area and kills water heaters about every 6 years. We just get a Sears 50 gallon water heater and buy the extended warranty. After 6 years or so, water heater dies and we just pay installation on a new one. Don't tell me that's not honest, it was a sears repair guy that told us to do it that way.

You think a tankless would last longer?

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Ryan,
the heater may seem like it died after a few years -- but it may be just that the heating element is buried in several inches of minerals/calcium/scale etc.. when I was dealing with a tank heater using very hard water, I was able to remove the heater element from the bottom of the tank fairly easily (I think that's how I got the vacuum hose in there iirc) then use a wet vac to suck out all the rocks and grit and stuff, thereby returning the heater to normal functioning..
the tankless Aquastar I'm using now for three years shows no change in volume of hot water, so I'm guessing there isn't much buildup in there.. I see for the Takagi there is a $160. de-mineralizing kit - don't know how it works though evidently you attach it permanently and it cleans the tank automatically..I think..

 

[Saaby]

No Ted---it starts to make less hot water/make it slower and we know it's on it's way out. It springs a leak(s) and it's replaced ;-)

 

[TOB9595]

Re: Tankless water heaters?

TedtheLed, go to CINNABAR TK2 $1059
I read the blurb instead of doing the math in my head. The manual cheats at 7 gpm. they get that by a 70 deg inlet and a 110 deg outlet.
It is indeed 240 gpm
Actually with a 50 degree inlet and a 150 degree outlet temp it's only a little over 3 gpm.
Sheesh even the manual has a catch. Still the unit is killer /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
I have to check on the Aquastar. Do they have the same rate of rise but at a better price?
Tom

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Re: Tankless water heaters?

Yes Saab, /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
less hot water would be the effect of the element being buried in minerals - - but this is just one scenario, reduced flow and leaking is another story.. how much do you pay for the replacement?

TOB,
excellent price, thanks!
evidently you can get a 7 gpm flow out of the TK2--
have you used Cinnabarequip.com ?

 

[Saaby]

Re: Tankless water heaters?

I don't know, I'll have to go ask. How much maintence would a tankless require? The head of household here isn't exactly the maintence king...

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Re: Tankless water heaters?

in 3 years my Aquastar has required, let me see, mmm, ZERO maintenance /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

by the way that cinnabarequip.com has really nicely laid out, informative site! nice Takagi bidet seat too! I think I may have to get one..(mm, what temperature water shall I squirt my 'ace' with this morning, mm?) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Jason Burns]

[ QUOTE ]
TedtheLed said:
Jason, that is an even better price for the Bosch/Lowes heaters - any way to tell if they are the same as the Aquastars? By the price and size I think they may be, and about $150 cheaper than I've found the Bosch/Aquastars at online.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

(tik; check the last few posts of p.1 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif )

[/ QUOTE ]

Unfortunately, I am in Nicaragua right now so I cannot check. I think they are aquastars but I do not see the model on the Lowe's website . . . if I can find out I'll let you know.

 

[John N]

Re: Tankless water heaters?

[ QUOTE ]
DieselDave said:
Anyone have experience with a tankless water heater?


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm looking at doing some remodeling and part of that moving to a tankless water heater. I'm pretty convinced tankless is the way to go.

We already have gas to the house, but unfortunately, the existing hot water is in the center of the house and the gas heaters must vent to the outside making it impractical to use gas. If your existing hot water heater is in a location that allows you to reasonably vent to the outside, gas is probably the way to go.

The largest problem with the on demand heaters is getting high enough water flow. If you consider a shower with an energy saving head is rated at about 2.5 gal/min, and the larger electrical on-demand units deliver about 4 gal/min, the larger electrical units may not deliver enough water flow to service two showers at a time. This may or may not be an issue depending on the tempature of your supply water.

There does appear to be a solution for this problem -- place two units inline. This is what I'm planning on doing. In this case, I might be able to squeak by with one unit, but I'd rather err on the side of having too much rather than too little.

The gotcha is that even though they will save you money on electricity, the larger electrical units need a boatload of power. It seems like a lot of units require something like 120A of power. Considering a lot of houses (like mine) have 200A services which are mostly utilized, it can be an issue. In my case, I'm considering going to a larger service. I don't have pricing yet (scary, I'm sure).

From what I've gathered, the tank is typically what fails in a tank based unit and as a result, the tankless units last longer, and are unlikely to leak upon failure, where the tank based units are likely to leak upon failure, causing secondary problems.

I came across this comparison chart which outlines the features of a lot of the electric units.

Let us know how things turn out or what you find out.

Thanks,

-john

Comparison Chart

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Re: Tankless water heaters?

John,
when you connect the two tankless heaters, you mean in parallel, right? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
if you do do this, check the minimum flow needed for the heater to turn itself on, even when opening one tap for a little hot water..
I got a new washing machine lately, built a new cabinet for it outside next to the Aquastar, hooked it up and, viola! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif -- the flow restrictor in the washer (Staber) didn't allow enough flow to ignite the Aquastar. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ohgeez.gif ..so did you know you can remove the flow restrictors from a washing machine, but it isn't easy?
..everything A-ok after that mod.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Re: Tankless water heaters?

Takagi tankless water heaters on Ebay

(too bad paypal doesn't work for me /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rant.gif )

 

[Saaby]

Re: Tankless water heaters?

Why's your washing maching outside Ted?

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Re: Tankless water heaters?

why not Ryan?

Why'd your gaseous cow turn into a confused lisping terrier Ryan?

 

[Brock]

I use a tankless electric as a pre heat to my gas tank. I have it plumbed so I can use either one by itself. The electric is only 13k (55amps at 240vac). I can take a shower, but the flow is to slow for my wife, and if she up's the flow the water gets to cold. So I would recommend a 20kw+ size, or about 100 amps at 240v. That is a lot of power.

In most places in the US gas is about 2/3 the price of elect. Propane is about the same as elect, maybe a bit cheaper. The catch for me is we get our power at 1/2 price at night so it becomes cheaper then gas at that point.

I did it mainly so we can run showers all the time without running out of hot water. Since we have a pool our showers might run an hour or more after a pool party. But with the elect preheat the gas water heater will actually catch up and shut off even with two shower going. The elect heats the well water from 45 to 80 and full flow, then the gas does the rest.

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Re: Tankless water heaters?

[ QUOTE ]
Saaby said:
Why's your washing maching outside Ted?

[/ QUOTE ]

are you maching me? hey what can I say I like a clean mach.. he he.

Brock, is that a cold well or what? do you use it for cooling in summer? my green plastic water tank lets the well water warm up so it's heated plenty by the Aquastar..it would be interesting to find out temp. of water in my well..

 

[turbodog]

Re: Tankless water heaters?

tedtheled... having experience with series and parallel heaters, I have to say that series is far better. Parallel operation... it is very hard to balance the load between heaters. You're limited by the output of the weakest/most utilized heater. Series... most of the time 1 heater does all the work. It if can't keep up, the other on turns on. Now, with 2 electric 28.8Kw heaters, that would be a total max load of 240 amps @ 240 volts. Lotta power to plan for. 1 good scenario if you have elec and gas is to put a small elec model in series downstream from your gas. That way if gas hwh runs out, you still can finish your shower, etc with hot water, but for normal use you gain the cost savings of gas hot water.

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Re: Tankless water heaters?

turbo, why not just get one heater big enough for the load? the reason to put two in series is for extremely cold, 40 degrees or so, water. do alot of people have that kind of water coming in?
also maybe I don't understand how these heaters work, I assumed the heater was either on or off, and was always on while water was running through it. Is this incorrect? Or, does it cycle off and on during a shower according to the temp. of the water going into it? Also, I know less about electrics but I would imagine there is a time lag, if the unit does indeed cycle off and on, between the time it senses the water getting tepid and getting the electric elements up to heat - not like the instant heat of gas ignition..?

 

[Saaby]

Re: Tankless water heaters?

I've experienced several smaller ones. I don't know if it's the rage all over the country, but around here the latest thing in public restrooms is to stash a small one of these (Lunch-Box size) under the sink instead of a regular water heater. Being the geek I am I've messed with them a bit. Seem to switch on the instant you start to flow hot water through them. Takes about 4 seconds for hot water to reach the tap, just like when you're at home and it takes a few seconds for the hot water to get from the tank (Or anti-tank) to the tap.

Maybe the smaller ones heat up quicker?

 

[turbodog]

Re: Tankless water heaters?

ted. temp control varies by mfg. envirotech regulates to within 1 degree F practically instantly. 28.8Kw model (120A) has 4 elements that are computer controlled. they are switched on/off at a decently high rate as needed to maintain temp. 40 degree water is more common than you think. i put 1 in for my mother here in south mississippi and here incoming water temp in the winter was 42 F. by nature, electrics have better temp regulation than gas. gas doesn't have the precise control equivalent on a mosfet turning elements on and off. now don't get me wrong, i like gas hwh. they have better performance and a cheaper operating cost.