Replacement lamp/light for Surefire 618fa on my shotgun

[JeffInChi]

Hey Everyone,

I have a nice Remington 870 tac 12 ga. shotgun I use for home defense/hand trap shooting. Awhile ago, I purchased a very nice flashlight for it that I installed on the forend (the part of the weapon that makes the "click-clack" sound and makes the bad guy pee his pants), the Surfire 618fa.

A link with some 618fa specs:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/471243-
REG/Surefire_618FA_618FA_Shotgun_Forend_WeaponLight.html

This is an ok amount of light for a tactical situation in a small space like my home, but I may be gearing up to take it to work. Before I do, I was just wondering if there was a lamp I could install on it to make it even brighter for large room (warehouse/factory) or outdoor situations. I currently have the 65 lumen version and I saw there was an optional bulb for 120 lumens, still looking for something with more light. I'd be fine with another ican or led.

If there is no lamp to drop in, can I just keep the forend part and put in a brand new light that allows drop ins? I can't find any info if the light on the forend in interchangeable with any other lights. It's basically a regular surefire incan with threads minus the clicky tailcap. Any flashlights (surefire or other) that can interchange with the 618fa? I'd imagine it'd have to be a surefire to be compatible with the threads. Any help will be appreciated.

 

[Lightraven]

There are LED replacements for those fore ends. We have one at work and I've seen others. I am not sure who makes them, though.

Malkoff M60 or MC-E might work. Search some older theads, I know I've read about that in the last year, with Gene Malkoff posting his answer. Or Surefire, themselves might have something.

 

[nzgunnie]

For a weapon light on a shotty, reliability under recoil becomes an issue. I would steer clear of the cheaper Chinese drop ins.

What you want is a malkoff M60. These are very high quality. This is your best option, when it comes to run time, brightness and reliability.

Note that you may need a small spacer washer (that Malkoff sell for $1), as this is a shock isolated head:

http://www.malkoffdevices.com/shop/m60-mod-to-fit-surefire-p-7.html


Another (IMO poorer) option is to get a P91 and run it on two IMR16340s... but this is not so reliable, as the P91 is being driven pretty hard and there have been a few reports in the last 12 months or so of P91s failing pretty quickly. Also, this set up has a very short run time.

Somewhere between the P60 and the P91 falls the P90 running on two protected RCR123a 7.2v cells. This is a pretty good set up, and I think far more reliable than the P91. Brighter than a P60, with decent run time (about 45 minutes).

Of course, many people advise against rechargeables in a tactical light, so YMMV.

 

[JeffInChi]

Of course, many people advise against rechargeables in a tactical light, so YMMV.

Thanks for the info so far, any reason for this?

 

[Kato]

I run a Malkoff M60 in my 618FA, but for a simple and relatively inexpensive option, don't forget about the P60L. Although it's rated at 80 lumens, it appears just as bright as the 105 lumen P61, and it has a longer run time on two CR123a cells than the standard P60. Also, because of its design, there are absolutely no compatibility issues.

Thanks for the info so far, any reason for this?

• If you're not topping off your rechargeable cells every week (or every day day depending on your usage), you won't know how much charge is left. Primary cells will dim as they lose power, thereby giving you warning. Rechargeable cells generally won't.
• Rechargeable cells that have a protection circuit built in will simply shut off when they drop below a certain energy level. You don't want that to happen when you're pointing your shotgun at a suspect in a dark hallway. Again, primary cells will dim as they lose power, giving you advance warning.
• Although some on CPF have shown that the self-discharge rate of lithium-ion cells is not very high, some fear that any self-discharge in cells not topped off regularly will result in an unknown charge level, a variable you don't want to experiment with in a life or death situation.

There's probably more, but that's a start. Hope that helps!

 

[Justin Case]

I run a Malkoff M60 in my 618FA, but for a simple and relatively inexpensive option, don't forget about the P60L. Although it's rated at 80 lumens, it appears just as bright as the 105 lumen P61, and it has a longer run time on two CR123a cells than the standard P60. Also, because of its design, there are absolutely no compatibility issues.

• If you're not topping off your rechargeable cells every week (or every day day depending on your usage), you won't know how much charge is left. Primary cells will dim as they lose power, thereby giving you warning. Rechargeable cells generally won't.
• Rechargeable cells that have a protection circuit built in will simply shut off when they drop below a certain energy level. You don't want that to happen when you're pointing your shotgun at a suspect in a dark hallway. Again, primary cells will dim as they lose power, giving you advance warning.
• Although some on CPF have shown that the self-discharge rate of lithium-ion cells is not very high, some fear that any self-discharge in cells not topped off regularly will result in an unknown charge level, a variable you don't want to experiment with in a life or death situation.

There's probably more, but that's a start. Hope that helps!

Reason #1 depends on the setup. A 1xLi-ion driving a Malkoff M60 shows hours of run time as the cell fades.

Reason #2 will have zero operational impact. The parasitic drain from a Li-ion protection circuit is single digit microamps. Also, the overdischarge voltage level is typically around 2.5V, which is far lower than you should run any Li-ion.

Reason #3 is most likely not relevant operationally. See this link -- 95% charge retention after 1 year.

The most likely reason against recommending Li-ions is that the protection circuitry can be somewhat fragile and if it fails (e.g. the board breaks from recoil forces), the cells could be rendered inoperable.

If that is a concern, I'd run a Malkoff M60 using 1x17670 (unprotected) in your weaponlight. No protection circuitry to fail.

I would also switch out your Z32 shock bezel for a standard Z44 bezel.

 

[JeffInChi]

I've heard good things about the malkoff drop-ins, so they can handle repeated recoil from a 12 gauge shotgun?

 

[angelofwar]

I imagine they would hold up for a bit...BUT, there was one thread where an LEO had his Malkoff fall apart after using it in shot-gun...so, I wouldn't use it during "target pratice", but I would trust it to hold up to the first 50-100 rounds...you should be good with it as a duty light, so long as you're not using it on your gun everytime you go to the range...

 

[Outdoors Fanatic]

Hey Everyone,

I have a nice Remington 870 tac 12 ga. shotgun I use for home defense/hand trap shooting. Awhile ago, I purchased a very nice flashlight for it that I installed on the forend (the part of the weapon that makes the "click-clack" sound and makes the bad guy pee his pants), the Surfire 618fa.

A link with some 618fa specs:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/471243-
REG/Surefire_618FA_618FA_Shotgun_Forend_WeaponLight.html

This is an ok amount of light for a tactical situation in a small space like my home, but I may be gearing up to take it to work. Before I do, I was just wondering if there was a lamp I could install on it to make it even brighter for large room (warehouse/factory) or outdoor situations. I currently have the 65 lumen version and I saw there was an optional bulb for 120 lumens, still looking for something with more light. I'd be fine with another ican or led.

If there is no lamp to drop in, can I just keep the forend part and put in a brand new light that allows drop ins? I can't find any info if the light on the forend in interchangeable with any other lights. It's basically a regular surefire incan with threads minus the clicky tailcap. Any flashlights (surefire or other) that can interchange with the 618fa? I'd imagine it'd have to be a surefire to be compatible with the threads. Any help will be appreciated.

2x16340 IMR cells + Lumens Factory HO-9, EO-9 or IMR-9. I can't think of anything better.

 

[Outdoors Fanatic]

Reason #1 depends on the setup. A 1xLi-ion driving a Malkoff M60 shows hours of run time as the cell fades.

Reason #2 will have zero operational impact. The parasitic drain from a Li-ion protection circuit is single digit microamps. Also, the overdischarge voltage level is typically around 2.5V, which is far lower than you should run any Li-ion.

Reason #3 is most likely not relevant operationally. See this link -- 95% charge retention after 1 year.

The most likely reason against recommending Li-ions is that the protection circuitry can be somewhat fragile and if it fails (e.g. the board breaks from recoil forces), the cells could be rendered inoperable.

If that is a concern, I'd run a Malkoff M60 using 1x17670 (unprotected) in your weaponlight. No protection circuitry to fail.

I would also switch out your Z32 shock bezel for a standard Z44 bezel.

On a single Li-ion, the M30 would be much better than the M60...

 

[Justin Case]

On a single Li-ion, the M30 would be much better than the M60...

That is debatable and IMO not true if you want graceful fading of the light as the cell drains. You won't get that with the M30. It'll fall of the proverbial cliff. For example:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2871189&postcount=114
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=194879
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=226590

 

[gsxrac]

I've heard good things about the malkoff drop-ins, so they can handle repeated recoil from a 12 gauge shotgun?

Heres a direct quote from the man also quite possibly one of the best quotes a manufacturer has ever posted on this forum...

If you experience a failure of a M60 for any reason. (Even if you accidentally tape some C4 to it.) Just contact me and I will replace it. Some of the team training members at Magpul Dynamics have over 100,000 rounds on their M60's with no failure. I stand behind my stuff.

Thanks, Gene Malkoff

 

[Chrontius]

I've heard good things about the malkoff drop-ins, so they can handle repeated recoil from a 12 gauge shotgun?

They can apparently handle repeated recoil from an M2 in full auto. I can't be arsed to find the quote, but apparently someone tried it as a weaponlight on ma deuce... and it worked splendidly. And yes, GSXrac found one of the quotes I wanted.

 

[Justin Case]

Chrontius,

An M2 weighs over 80 lbs, and over 100 lbs with the tripod. That weight greatly reduces the recoil. I've shot plenty of rounds from an M2 and I would say that the felt recoil is less than that for a 12 gauge. I would also say that the recoil impulse is less sharp for an M2 vs 12 gauge.

gsxrac,

The quote from Gene certainly shows that he stands behind his products 100% and has perhaps the best customer service in the business. But it really doesn't address the poster's question as to whether or not the M60 drop-in can handle 12 gauge recoil.

What I would do if ultimate reliability is a concern is to use a bezel that presses directly on the M60's plastic optic. Unfortunately, that rules out the otherwise excellent SureFire Z44 bezel. The issue is that a small gap between the M60 optic and the Z44 bezel window can allow recoil to shake the optic loose from its epoxy glue points. This is the same concept as shooting a 12 gauge. You hold the stock tight in the shoulder pocket and you don't get battered from the recoil. You leave a gap, and you get hit. It's the difference between a push and a punch. Personally, I wouldn't worry about this because I would first shoot hundreds of 12 gauge 00 buck and slug rounds with the M60 installed to proof test the light before even adopting it for self defense usage.