Requirements for caving lights

firefly99

Enlightened
Joined
May 22, 2005
Messages
748
Never been to a cave before. As a flashaholic, I am very curious what are the special requirements that a light or headlamp should have, so that it can be use for caving.

Please advise, Thanks.
 

Aaron1100us

Enlightened
Joined
Dec 3, 2005
Messages
649
Location
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
I've never been caving either but plan on in the next couple of months. I would imagine durability, battery life and even water resistance would be a factor. I hear about people using carbide lamps but I don't know much about those. I just got a PT Apex to try out in the caves. 3w luxeon plus 4 very bright 5mm LEDs and waterproof to 1 meter. Not as durable as the sten lights, I here those are pretty top of the line for cave lights, very pricey though. Oh, the Apex runs 4.5 hours on Lithium AAs. I'd suggest a good headlamp and atleast three other lights. I hear the streamlight pro polymer 4XAA luxeon is pretty good and waterproof too. I think thats going to be my next light, not too expensive either. Hopefully some others will chime in here too as I would like to know more about this too.
 

PeLu

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 26, 2001
Messages
1,712
Location
Linz, Austria
cy said:
look in the stenlight thread....
Yes, thats a good advice and there are several other threads.

But it is a dangerous place here to ask .-)

Only one: brightness is not the most important thing for a caving light, but people infected with flashaholism will tell you so .-)

(humorless people beware, sentence above contains sarcasm!)
 

Ocelot

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Dec 31, 2003
Messages
115
Location
Corvallis, Oregon
firefly99 said:
Never been to a cave before. As a flashaholic, I am very curious what are the special requirements that a light or headlamp should have, so that it can be use for caving.

Please advise, Thanks.

Here are mine:

- No cords (battery mounts on helmet)
- Not just a tight spot; must have some width to the illuminated area
- Small size/weight (not so much an issue nowadays)
- Battery not too heavy (2C would be about max I would prefer)
- Dimmable with continuous control or at least 4 levels
- Can be used with regular alkaline batteries
- Regulated for constant brightness
- Water resistant (doesn't have to be water proof)
- Min 1W output on high

I ended up building my own out of a 5W Luxeon. It has continuous brightness adjust from ~0.01W to 5W. I went with a homemade step-up current regulator, so that I wouldn't need more than 4 cells. This works well with using NiMH batteries, as the chargers do 4 cells at a time. I'll pay for the slight efficiency loss compared to a step-down regulator, since I end up with a smaller/lighter/cheaper battery pack.

Scott
 

JonSidneyB

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Jun 22, 2001
Messages
3,423
Location
Greenfield In
Do you belong to a caving grotto?

:) Denise and I are just now getting into caving.

I will be carrying the Stenlight as a regular item.
 

jtice

Flashaholic
Joined
May 21, 2003
Messages
6,331
Location
West Virginia
If you dont want to spend alot,

Get yourself a PT Corona headlamp,
its got great runtime, its small, and is a nice flood.

Then get a Streamlight 4AA LED as a hand light.

Then have a backup light, I suggest the UK 4AA LED.

~John
 

firefly99

Enlightened
Joined
May 22, 2005
Messages
748
Thanks everybody for the input. I do not belong to a caving grotto.

I had look in the stenlight thread and aware it is one of the best caving light.
But it does not answer my questions. Does it mean that any bright light that is dimmable, water resistance, head/helmet mountable would be suitable.
If so, does SF lights such as U2, L2 qualify for caving use ?

What are the requirements for a light to survive/ being use in the unique environment of a cave ?

Currently the only headlamp I had is a Inova 24/7, would this be suitable for caving ? Thanks.
 

cave dave

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Aug 15, 2001
Messages
3,771
Location
VA
Gee, I caved for years with a single level non-regulated light of max brigtness less than 15 lumens (about 1/2 watt). What was I thinking?

I think the most important thing is THREE (3) Helmet mountable headlamps (aka a headlamp that tilts up and down, not a ziptied handheld) that have a good reputation for overall reliability/durability, and a decent burn time. I would recommend at least 6 hours. Regulation and high brightness might be nice to have but are not really neccesary and shorten the burn time.

I second the vote for the PT Corona as a nice light that is not too expensive. I own a Stenlight and use it for caving but frankly would not recommend it to anybody who didn't have money to burn.
 
Last edited:

vtunderground

Enlightened
Joined
May 26, 2004
Messages
945
Location
Roanoke, VA
firefly99 said:
Never been to a cave before. As a flashaholic, I am very curious what are the special requirements that a light or headlamp should have, so that it can be use for caving.

What I look for in a caving headlamp:

- bright, smooth beam, with excellent spill
- regulated, with multiple light levels
- excellent runtime (I like doing a 5-8 hour trip without having to change batteries)
- very tough
- waterproof
- lifetime warrantee
- somewhat affordable (my limit is about $70)

My primary headlamp is a Pelican 2630, and my backup headlamp is a reflectored PT EOS. My second backup light is a UK Mini-Q40 eLED. Personally, I would not take any of my Surefire's in a cave.

I'm another fan of the PT Corona, I think it'd do well caving.
 
Last edited:

jtice

Flashaholic
Joined
May 21, 2003
Messages
6,331
Location
West Virginia
Surefires could survive caving very well, I would totally trust the LED models.

BUT !!!
You will Destroy the HAIII Finish.
Caving is very hard on things, and to get around in there well, you cant be worrying about not gouging your light into a rock etc.
It will get dragged around and beat to hell.

Thats why I like lights like the Streamlight 4AA LED,
its plastic body scratches easy, sure, but its not as noticable,
its a plastic, inexpensive light, that you wont feel bad about scratching up.

Small lights like the Arc AAA, Arc AA, and Fenix lights,
also make good backup lights for around your neck.

A Single Arc AAA can be PLENTY bright in a cave, after you are night adapted.
You could find your way out with that little of light.

Chemical glow sticks are nice also, I use them on the packs etc, so we dont loose them if we need to sit them down,
I also use them as markers, if I am on a maze cave.

~John
 

PeLu

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 26, 2001
Messages
1,712
Location
Linz, Austria
I agree with Ocelot, except that my experience shows that 4 or 5 levels are better than a continous control.

15-20lm as a maximum should be enough for most occasions, of course it is sometimes nice to have more. It also depends on your personal likings. There are typical low light cavers, who are happy with 1lm and when you get older you will need more.

One piece lights are the most robust, obviously, but make your helmet unbalanced.
Best solution seems to be a completely helmet mounted light were you could route the cables inside. That means very small connectors.
Watch the connectors if they are waterproof.

Itis absolutely not necessary to keep 3 lights on your helmet all the time. Actually I only have one on my helmet at a time and I'm quite happy the last several hundreds caving trips.

If you are going into serious caving, you will survey virgin passage and in case you are theperson doing the instruments, your light should not influnce the compass.

For a backup light, use one of the small lights, the ArcAAA for example has turned out to be NOT caving proof here, we had most of them failing. And BTW, there are cheaper lights for that task.

Rechargeable lights are only worth the hassle if you do lots of caving. Primary cells are just easier.

A caving light should be dive proof down to maybe 5m. So you do not have to worry when you clean your gear. And of course you do not have to worry about you light when you have to put your head under water in a duck or waterfall. Just one thing less to worry about.

I'm very concerned about light distribution with all my lights (not only for caving) and I like an even wide beam. The Stenlight has not enough sidespill for my taste.

If you do vertical caving, a good spot is useful, but also in larger caves.

And, as Mentioned above, it is very conventient if you could do the whole trip without changing the battery.

We had a discussion about chemical light sticks here some time ago and they turned out to be useless for anything else than marking a way or similar.
 

Ocelot

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Dec 31, 2003
Messages
115
Location
Corvallis, Oregon
PeLu said:
I agree with Ocelot, except that my experience shows that 4 or 5 levels are better than a continous control.

I would personally define "better" as resulting in a more robust switch.

For ease-of-implementation when I build my own lights, I can very easily do a continuous control without resorting to extra ICs or a CPU. But since most people don't build their own lights, that is a concern that they don't have. I also don't like having to step through 4-5 other levels to get to the one I want.

I also like continuous because I cave in extremely varied brightness caves (not that others don't). For example, we have some VERY black lava tubes around here, some not-so-black. Also alpine caves with pretty dark schist in places (floor/large part of the walls, with ceiling in marble). Then, in the same cave, you have full, white marble walls. Then there are the much lighter-walled caves where power isn't so necessary. More recently in Peru, the floor/ceiling were often sandstone which is betwen the two extremes. Which is why I like being able to really tune the light to the circumstances, and optimize the battery power.

And then of course the crawlways... And turning down the light to do book or read maps.

PeLu said:
Itis absolutely not necessary to keep 3 lights on your helmet all the time. Actually I only have one on my helmet at a time and I'm quite happy the last several hundreds caving trips.

I happen to have three lights on my helmet, but they don't take up as much space/weight as one might think. I agree that 3 lights is overkill. Although one backup mounted on the helmet should be available; what are you going to do if your light fails while on rope in the middle of an ascent? Or you go down a crawl to check it out, leaving your pack behind, and something happens? I used to carry another light around my neck, but that often chafed my neck, so I switched to a spare light on my helmet.

This reminds me of caving in Guatemala, where we were floating in a river on our way out of the cave, and we were all using carbide lights. The passage at one points gets much smaller, the river speed picks up, and all of a sudden you get sucked into the choke point, the wind blows out your carbide, and you go whipping around a bend in the river... It sure was nice that someone had a spare electric headlamp to switch on at the time.

I have a Brinkman high-pressure xenon running on 2 lithium CR123A cells for high lead spotting. It's a highly focused 5W light that throws a pretty good beam. It's a small & lightweight light mounted to the side.

The other helmet light is a photon micro light for emergency use, tucked inside a large rubber band (tire inner tube). Almost no weight at all.

PeLu said:
Rechargeable lights are only worth the hassle if you do lots of caving. Primary cells are just easier.

Well, you would have to define "lots".

I only cave maybe 1/month, a bit more in the summer. Since I use the same rechargeable batteries in my digital cameras and GPS units, it's not that much of a hassle. Certainly if I didn't share these batteries, and I only went caving once every 4-5 months, then rechargeables wouldn't make much sense.

The other advantage of rechargeables is that they have much lower internal resistance than primary batteries when you are talking smaller sizes such as AA, so they can provide more power for a longer period of time without dropping a bunch of wasted power as heat inside the battery.

Scott
 

jtice

Flashaholic
Joined
May 21, 2003
Messages
6,331
Location
West Virginia
I have about 70 of them at home :D along with about 50 of the 6" ones, and some bracelets.

They are ok, they will work as markers, as long as they are in line of sight.

Bad thing is, there is no attachment point on them,
so you just have to sit them there, or stick them in the mud, if you can.

I have found the bracelets work really well for attaching to packs etc.
But, they are so long and skinny, they break and activate VERY easy.

I get all mine from here,
and I think I will be sticking to the 6" 12 hour ones.

http://www.illuminationz.com

~John
 

cave dave

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Aug 15, 2001
Messages
3,771
Location
VA
OK, I have currently have 4 lights on my helmet alone, but I am a flashoholic after all. Some people EDC that many. I hope my post above didn't imply that you need all three on your helmet. I just meant they should all be helmet mountable under adverse conditions. You don't really want to be fooling around with duct tape and zipties after your primary and secondary have failed.

I would recommend however a simple backup on your helmet. I use an original CMG infinity which has proved caveproof so far. I leave it on all the time. I call it an "always on backup" This way if your primary fails suddenly you have enough light to get to someplace safe to dig out your secondary from the pack. I am the only person I have ever met who does this by the way.

Here are some links from our grotto website about cave gear:
See #7
http://cave.pure.net/~bats/pages/documents.html
 

PeLu

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 26, 2001
Messages
1,712
Location
Linz, Austria
discrete levels versus continous control:

Ocelot said:
I would personally define "better" as resulting in a more robust switch.
Of course you are right that you usually have no choice. Discrete steps add the ability to keep a little bit track of what you are using.

I did not mean anything about the range and with most lights I would like another lower setting.

The Melzer Radon's 5 levels spaced 1:3 seem to me almost perfect.

I happen to have three lights on my helmet....one backup mounted on the helmet should be available; what are you going to do if your light fails while on rope in the middle of an ascent?
I think it will not even be worth to get my backup light which I carry on a necksling under my coverall.

This case did not happen to me in the last 7 years.

It's a small & lightweight light mounted to the side.
cavers are different, but I do not want to make my helmet any wider. Too many cases where it could just fit through a fissure. Actually I had the impression that caves are built so that a helmet could fit through it sideways.....
(depends also on you chest size).

rechargeables:
If you use AA cells, for example it is quite easy to change. But if you buy a dedicated set of batteries and chargers like the one for the Stenlight, you invest muchmore money.
And as I wrote, you have to keep track. And depends on your caving style. On our alpine huts, electricity for charging is sometimes scarce.
When I used my ActionLight 1 I enjoyed it very much (on expeditions) that I did not have to fiddle around with my dirty caving gear after the trip. For a price, of course.

Chemical light sticks: As I wrote, the only application they have prooved some value here, is for marking a path.
But, on the other hand, marking a path is only very rarely needed. Actually only in larger cave rescue operations where you have rescuers not familiar with the cave.....
 

Keltec

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Apr 4, 2006
Messages
23
jtice said:
Thats why I like lights like the Streamlight 4AA LED,

Jtice, didn't you have a problem with it's switch ?


jtice said:
Chemical glow sticks are nice also, I use them on the packs etc, so we dont loose them if we need to sit them down,
I also use them as markers, if I am on a maze cave.

Do you have to collect them when going back ?
 

Keltec

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Apr 4, 2006
Messages
23
cave dave said:
I would recommend however a simple backup on your helmet. I use an original CMG infinity which has proved caveproof so far. I leave it on all the time. I call it an "always on backup" This way if your primary fails suddenly you have enough light to get to someplace safe to dig out your secondary from the pack.

Princeton Tec Pilot Has anyone used it ?
 
Last edited:

Biggimo1

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Oct 3, 2004
Messages
46
Location
United States
I like the Eos as a back-up. I use it as my primary also, sometimes. It is plenty of light for caving. My main light is a homemade Tri-lux head lamp. You don't really need 200+ lms in a cave, but we are all light freaks here, right?

Brian B.
 
Top